daynightindicator Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 hours ago, HU&W said: 1. Bring back the orderly room AFSC. And it needs to be an AFSC, not an additional duty for some other afsc. 2. Train the folks in that AFSC on the basics of ALL common unit additional duties and admin support. Ops addl duties like stan eval, weapons, etc would obviously stay with the guys doing it. Same with mx specific addl duties, along with other squadrons where it relates to the primary duty. 3. Staff EVERY unit with a 3-6 person orderly room. 4. Profit. Step 1a. Create "Executive Officer" AFSC. I'm pretty sure the personal assistant to Google's CEO is not some up and coming programmer who is "career broadening" on their way to the top. BTW, I've met a few support officers who actually really enjoyed doing exec-style work. They were good at it, and they all said if they could have stayed in doing that as a primary duty, they wouldn't have left the USAF after their 4/5 year ADSC. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) I too have met a few people who lllooovvveee OPRs and medal writing and being a CEO's assistant. A CSS with a personnelist and 2-6 airmen would be amazing. Anyways, I 100% believe nothing is going to change until at a minimum, DOPMA changes. Edited July 28, 2016 by xaarman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 12 hours ago, dream big said: We are already seeing this at the squadron level. Our DO asked each shop to rank order our additional duties. They are going to rack and stack them and just make a cut off, below which additional duties will no longer be done and the commander will accept the risk. There is absolutely zero reason for a young LT/wingman/copilot to be worried about equipment manager, building custodian, records custodian, whatever bullshit additional duty in place of being the best aviator they can be. That's LRS/CE/FSS/etc's job. Mission first. I would love to shed my equipment manager job. It's already taken more of my life than I would care to admit, and we haven't even added or DRMO'd any equipment during my tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Step 1a. Create "Executive Officer" AFSC. I'm pretty sure the personal assistant to Google's CEO is not some up and coming programmer who is "career broadening" on their way to the top. BTW, I've met a few support officers who actually really enjoyed doing exec-style work. They were good at it, and they all said if they could have stayed in doing that as a primary duty, they wouldn't have left the USAF after their 4/5 year ADSC. 97E. It already exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprkt69 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 hours ago, daynightindicator said: Step 1a. Create "Executive Officer" AFSC. I'm pretty sure the personal assistant to Google's CEO is not some up and coming programmer who is "career broadening" on their way to the top. BTW, I've met a few support officers who actually really enjoyed doing exec-style work. They were good at it, and they all said if they could have stayed in doing that as a primary duty, they wouldn't have left the USAF after their 4/5 year ADSC. There are plenty of pretend pilots that love to do that stuff too. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daynightindicator Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 97E. It already exists. Is it an additional AFSC or sub-AFSC like 91/92? My point was to make it a no shitter career field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 8 hours ago, daynightindicator said: Is it an additional AFSC or sub-AFSC like 91/92? My point was to make it a no shitter career field. And while we're at it, let's stop requireing a W pre-fix to be a wing exec. Is this common in other communities? Over half the wing execs I've known have been patches. I'm sure that it's a great use of all the tactical knowledge they gain at weapon school to correct OPR/EPRs and comb through awards and decorations... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brabus Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I've only seen one fighter patch be an exec. I'm sure it's happened more than that one guy, but it's safe to say such a thing is extremely rare. That is insane 1/2 of the execs you've seen have been patches, what a colossal waste of expertise/knowledge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 6 hours ago, pawnman said: And while we're at it, let's stop requireing a W pre-fix to be a wing exec. Is this common in other communities? Over half the wing execs I've known have been patches. I'm sure that it's a great use of all the tactical knowledge they gain at weapon school to correct OPR/EPRs and comb through awards and decorations... 1 hour ago, brabus said: I've only seen one fighter patch be an exec. I'm sure it's happened more than that one guy, but it's safe to say such a thing is extremely rare. That is insane 1/2 of the execs you've seen have been patches, what a colossal waste of expertise/knowledge. I could rattle off about ten without thinking too hard... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daynightindicator Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 hour ago, brabus said: I've only seen one fighter patch be an exec. I'm sure it's happened more than that one guy, but it's safe to say such a thing is extremely rare. That is insane 1/2 of the execs you've seen have been patches, what a colossal waste of expertise/knowledge. The ass-backwards thing is "leadership" is usually trying to hook those guys up with school slots, etc. by making them the wing/group exec. We've had a few WG/CCs of late who have been very forward in telling their rated officers that they don't stack up well against the support officers around base. My issue with that is that it's the WG/CC who decides which criteria to use in the rack'n'stack process! Stop using volunteering and other useless BS as a criteria for promotion/school competition! Stop telling instructor/evaluator/patch-wearers working 12-hr/day ADO gigs that some shoe has a better record because he's a "DO" of the FSS or other similar non-rate unit! I had a WG/CC once tell me that being MCC for a large force employment (both combat mission or flag) wasn't "real leadership" and that unless you're in charge of dozens of airmen on a daily basis, that the non-rated O's would always have a leg up. That right there is probably the issue. Afterthought...one issue that differs from the fighter patch world is that since our WIC is a GSU, it's an uphill battle for our WIC instructors to compete in the 57th WG. That drives some of the game where they try to get a guy a school slot prior to sending him/her to instruct at WIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I had my CC explain to me the reason I went off base #2 for school is because the wing commander would not allow a sitting SQ/CC go off base behind a non-CC. Obviously being an IP/FE currently downrange meant nothing. Needless to say, said SFS/CC had no chance of getting picked up and didn't. We laughed over a scotch when I got home. At the time I was securing my guard gig and wouldn't have stayed in for any flavor of school. I say again, separate our promotions from the 0730-1630 support guys with the time/flexibility to be CGOC pres and organize a Habitat build every month. We are not the same. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopyeast Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 The tail is wagging the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 1 hour ago, ViperStud said: I say again, separate our promotions from the 0730-1630 support guys with the time/flexibility to be CGOC pres and organize a Habitat build every month. We are not the same. Been saying this for years. An 11x, 14N, 17x, 37x, whatever are not equals, yet we pretend that they are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprkt69 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 2 hours ago, ViperStud said: I had my CC explain to me the reason I went off base #2 for school is because the wing commander would not allow a sitting SQ/CC go off base behind a non-CC. Obviously being an IP/FE currently downrange meant nothing. Needless to say, said SFS/CC had no chance of getting picked up and didn't. We laughed over a scotch when I got home. At the time I was securing my guard gig and wouldn't have stayed in for any flavor of school. I say again, separate our promotions from the 0730-1630 support guys with the time/flexibility to be CGOC pres and organize a Habitat build every month. We are not the same. I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Sprkt69 said: I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. Go back to the spouses club and Judge Judy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprkt69 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 53 minutes ago, matmacwc said: Go back to the spouses club and Judge Judy. Did you just wake up from passing out on the toilet again? Or just jealous because you love Judge Judy and drinking "coffee"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Be nice, children. KKMF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Sprkt69 said: Did you just wake up from passing out on the toilet again? Or just jealous because you love Judge Judy and drinking "coffee"? Just low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 6 hours ago, Sprkt69 said: I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. The DT's already own the development process. Give them the promotion process too. Promote in the silos to O6 and then hire based on job and quals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream big Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Our patch wearer got back from weapons school in January, a few months later he went off to the wing to be an exec. Now the squadron lost their only patch. That's what is wrong with the Air Force. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 14 hours ago, Sprkt69 said: I totally agree. Just like the medical officers, make rated officers a different promotion board than the rest of the LAF. That may see minor improvements for aircrew, but it's still like putting a bandaid over severed legs. Maybe you can steal from the Navy where the pilots have additional duties to include MX officer which fly all the OCF/FCF's after phase inspection and each pilot with their name on the side of a jet have to do EPR's and other personnel stuff for the MX troops working his jet such as signing off on a Art 15 for being a bone head and answering failed QA evals and DSV's. Maybe fight for a young enlisted kid who shows promise who is on the wrong side of the one mistake Air Force instead of waiting until they are GP/CC to deal with enlisted matters. Teenagers are fun to deal with and I know why MX and Tigers eat their young. This is more to the fighter side than the heavy side due to enlisted aircrew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTB Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 4 hours ago, dream big said: Our patch wearer got back from weapons school in January, a few months later he went off to the wing to be an exec. Now the squadron lost their only patch. That's what is wrong with the Air Force. Seriously?? What Wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream big Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 46 minutes ago, RTB said: Seriously?? What Wing? Yokota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUSEPLUG Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 8 hours ago, dream big said: Our patch wearer got back from weapons school in January, a few months later he went off to the wing to be an exec. Now the squadron lost their only patch. That's what is wrong with the Air Force. He's a "bright and shiny." I don't see the problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom22 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Whats wrong with the air force.. how many characters do I get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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