What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Bode]

Saw a screen grab showing that the AETC CC downloaded the docs. Either that or his minions.


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[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, GlassEmpty said:

To be fair, this started with some personal attack which is a bit ridiculous.

 

Anyone have any insight on if this is getting kicked around up top?

 

 

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Well the AETC/CC was the first person to download the evidence. I sent it via AMRDEC and had it setup to authenticate with CAC and to notify if anyone downloaded it.

[BashiChuni]

44 minutes ago, Azimuth said:

Well the AETC/CC was the first person to download the evidence. I sent it via AMRDEC and had it setup to authenticate with CAC and to notify if anyone downloaded it.

this is why the higher in rank you go the shittier your life...you have to deal with stuff like this

no thank you i'll just take a main order of flying with a small side of bs

and since you're airing it all out would you mind explaining to us simpletons your story/beef and what the hell is going on?

Edited June 21, 2017 by BashiChuni

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

this is why the higher in rank you go the shittier your life...you have to deal with stuff like this

no thank you i'll just take a main order of flying with a small side of bs

and since you're airing it all out would you mind explaining to us simpletons your story/beef and what the hell is going on?

Well sure, if you must know. I was a MSgt KC-135 Boom Operator at a base in the PNW.  I was recently divorced and paroled after four years imprisoned teaching in AETC.  I started banging an Amn Boom, who didn't work for me from Sep 2014 to Dec 2014, then stopped.  I hooked up with a SSgt Boom, who just happened to be friends and was the direct supervisor of the Amn, once Dec 2014 and once Mar 2015.  We remained friends, flew together, went TDY together, but we all were dating other people.  

A guy I know (SMSgt), who's been my boss twice, and I've been stationed with him for 12 straight years, found out about me banging these girls July 2015.  I was on leave and once I came back he told me the SSgt was at a part at his house and blurted out my sexual past.  I told him that it wasn't happening, hasn't happened in months, and we were all seeing other people.  January 2016 I deployed for six months as OGV at the Deid and during this time my "buddy" was in the Group Chief's office getting upset over work stuff.  He then decides he's going to play the deflection game and tell the Chief about my sexual past.  The Chief then asked some questions, my buddy realizes he's said too much, and the OG/CC directs a CDI on me for an unprofessional relationship.

The SSgt gets pulled into the Shirt's office and on a sworn statement was asked if she ever had sexual interaction with me, she wrote no.  She then called the Amn, who's at instructor upgrade at Altus at this time, told her they're investigating me for banging them, and that she lied.  The next day the SSgt went to the SARC, told her she lied, the SARC said she needs to tell OSI, so she does which makes it an unrestricted sexual assault report and now a OSI investigation.  She claimed that I randomly walked into her room at the Deid the first time we had sex, she was on Ambien, and we had sex, but she never told me no or stop or that she was on Ambien.  The second time we had sex she claimed that she wanted to prove to me that "she was in charge of her body and I couldn't make her feel that way again."  She claimed she never reported the alleged assault because she didn't want to be sent home and was trying to break her lease via SCRA.

The day after the SSgt alleged that I sexually assaulted her the Amn is pulled into the Shirt's office at Altus.  She's asked the same questionnaire about me.  When asked, under oath, if she ever had sexual interaction with me, she wrote no.  Then when she came back to here she claimed I always sexually harassed her.  I was brought home early, fired from my job, and sent to work in OGV pushing paper.  In May 2016 my Sq/CC suspended my AO's and I lost my flight pay.  June 2016 he preferred charges of Article 120, sexual assault of the SSgt, Article 93 Maltreatment of the SSgt and Amn for verbal sexual harassment, and Article 92 Dereliction of Duty for having an Unprofessional Relationships.  

During the time a TSgt, who used to work for me and banged these girls as well (he's a swinger, wife does cam porn), warned me of the investigation when it first kicked off, told me it was bullshit and he'd take the stand in my defense, these girls are liars, etc.  So imagine my surprise when I started to get Discovery evidence from the government and I see two statements from him saying I told him I raped these girls, things I never said or did, etc.

In June 2016 the Amn requests and Expedited Transfer to the midwest to be by her best friend and her hometown.  August 2016 I had my Article 32 hearing, which in today's sexual assault witch hunt for convictions, is a joke.  Both "complaining witnesses" didn't have to attend.  Previous to 2013 MCM changes they would've had to testify and thus be cross-examined.  It was about 30-40 minutes.  October 2016 the Convening Authority of a General Court Martial (18 AF/CC for me) referred charges against me.  December 2014 I had a motions hearing where all the girls were there, motions were hashed out, MRE 412 (Military Rape Shield Rule) issues were sorted out, etc.

January 2017 my General Court Martial started.  It was three days.  I pled not guilty to all charges and specifications.  I was acquitted of the sexual assault of the SSgt and sexual harassment of the Amn.  I was found guilty of the maltreatment of the SSgt cause we used to joke around sexually to each other and both specifications of unprofessional relationship.  I was sentenced to reduction to SSgt and a reprimand.

February 2017 I was notified I was being sent to a Administrative Discharge Board.  April 2017 I was told that I was to be separated and given a General Under Honorable Conditions discharge.  During this time the SSgt was told she had to go TDY, she said that wasn't going to happen, she was handed an LOC for not doing her job, next day she PCS'd to a Florida base.

15 June 2017 I was separated from the Air Force at 16 years, 3 months, 9 days.

 

[FourFans]

Azimuth, thanks for being candid and honest.  Rare to find these days when hearing about one's deeds and misdeeds.

Regardless the story (there are always two sides), even if half of this tale is based on miscommunication and misunderstand, it still sounds like the USAF's "fact finding" investigative capabilities haven't improved much since Mollygate.

A caution: Please be careful how much info you tell about these other people in a public internet forum.  Right or wrong, it wouldn't be difficult for an average joe to figure out exactly who all of them are with what you've given...yourself included. (for example, no need to tell who's a swinger and who does camera porn...completely irrelevant to your story).  I know it's your freedom of speech right to do so, but we also have a moral responsibility.  Please don't disregard that.

Tell the story, but protect the people.  There are serious wack jobs on the internet these days looking for EXACTLY this kind of info.

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

Azimuth... Damn dude, that's a whack story.

But seriously, I hope you posting all this in public forums doesn't come back to bite you in the ass. I saw you dropped ranks and names in that reddit post... I too like to live a risky lifestyle, but whew... I hope no one comes running back at you with a defamation or libel lawsuit or anything else that would make your life miserable!

Thanks for your service, thanks for sharing your story and being so candid about getting boned by the AF, and I hope whatever new career you have treats you better! Stay thirsty my friend.

[Guest]

Don't do Blue.  There are no upsides, but there are plenty of potentially negative consequences.

[Azimuth]

3 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

Azimuth... Damn dude, that's a whack story.

But seriously, I hope you posting all this in public forums doesn't come back to bite you in the ass. I saw you dropped ranks and names in that reddit post... I too like to live a risky lifestyle, but whew... I hope no one comes running back at you with a defamation or libel lawsuit or anything else that would make your life miserable!

Thanks for your service, thanks for sharing your story and being so candid about getting boned by the AF, and I hope whatever new career you have treats you better! Stay thirsty my friend.

Here's a quote I heard from a JAG.

"I don't go up and tell pilots how to fly when I'm a passenger, I don't know why they keep telling me how to interpret the law."

So here's how libel and slander works.  If I post your OSI interview video, where it's you talking, and then I post your sworn statements showing you lied, you can't be sued for libel or slander.  Why?  You would have the burden of proof to show that for one what I said was a lie (good luck) and then you'd have to proof how it defamed your character.  You gave up the privacy stuff when you made those statements and you made those interviews.  I didn't force you to do that.

Now if you'd like to "open the door" and take me to civil court over this then all of your lies are now admissible.  And there aren't silly rules like Military Rule of Evidence 412 (Military version of the rape shield law) to potentially prevent evidence from coming in, like in a court martial.

[Azimuth]

2 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Don't do Blue.  There are no upsides, but there are plenty of potentially negative consequences.

I mean at the time it was fun!

[Disco_Nav963]

Can someone fill me in on what constitutes an unprofessional relationship in a UCMJ sense? An E-7 & an airman they don't supervise counts? If I had bagged a Major from the Med Group when I was a 1LT because maybe I liked cougars at the time, would that have been illegal? Very confused.

[waveshaper]

19 minutes ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

Can someone fill me in on what constitutes an unprofessional relationship in a UCMJ sense? An E-7 & an airman they don't supervise counts? If I had bagged a Major from the Med Group when I was a 1LT because maybe I liked cougars at the time, would that have been illegal? Very confused.

Back in the good ole days (30/40 years ago) these type things would've been handled by my unit bar/kangaroo court (all enlisted/no females).   Charges would've been levied and you would've had a chance to plead your case before being judged/convicted/fined or cleared of all charges. Examples;

- Enlisted banging enlisted: Back in my day this was frowned upon (at least in my AFSC) and you would've been convicted and fined 5 to 10 rounds of cheer.

- Enlisted banging officer: If you were charged with this crime you would not be convicted "ever". Whoever brought these charges against you for this crime would've been convicted for being a clueless dumb ass and fined at least 10 rounds of cheer and placed on standby (No Drinking) for a minimum of two weeks.

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

Can someone fill me in on what constitutes an unprofessional relationship in a UCMJ sense? An E-7 & an airman they don't supervise counts? If I had bagged a Major from the Med Group when I was a 1LT because maybe I liked cougars at the time, would that have been illegal? Very confused.

Enlisted can't be charged with Art 133 Conduct Unbecoming and Art 134 Fraternization (well just the Air Force, the Navy/Marines can charge their Enlisted with Art 134).  There are three subsections of Article 92:

1 - Violation or failure to obey a lawful general order or regulation.

2 - Violation or failure to obey a lawful order.

3 - Dereliction of duty.  The accused should have known, or reasonably of known, his duty via a treaty, statue, regulation, lawful order, standard operating procedure, or custom of the service.

I didn't technically violate AFI 36-2909 (not the AETC sup one) because I wasn't their direct supervisor, they weren't even in my flight.  Also the AFI states that refer of charges to a court martial shouldn't be done unless it's an extreme case...so you were told multiple times to stop your relationship, received paperwork/Art 15, and continued it anyway.  Also least punitive means should be used to terminate the relationships (which we had terminated ourselves years prior).

I think at the end of the day the panel members just couldn't get over the fact a MSgt was fucking a SSgt and a Amn due to the rank disparity.  I honestly believe that had I been a SSgt, I wouldn't of been found guilty, or possibly even charged, with Art 92(3) Dereliction of Duty.  But I'll never know.

[GlassEmpty]

A caution: Please be careful how much info you tell about these other people in a public internet forum.  Right or wrong, it wouldn't be difficult for an average joe to figure out exactly who all of them are with what you've given...yourself included. (for example, no need to tell who's a swinger and who does camera porn...completely irrelevant to your story).  I know it's your freedom of speech right to do so, but we also have a moral responsibility.  Please don't disregard that.

I think it is valid. The SSgt slept with the TSgt all in the same timeline. Being in the military, being a swinger is irrelevant. SSgt and TSgt are just as guilty of violating the UCMJ. The value of the SO that does Cam Porn is relevant if you've read the other posts and tie his connection to that members security clearance.

Lastly, this attempt was clearly to go nuclear to hold the the system accountable across the board. Az never posted this here, only responded. These posts seem pretty calculated.


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[ThreeHoler]

At least you're not a felon for being 6 minutes late...

https://www.nj.com/burlington/index.ssf/2017/06/i_am_a_felon_for_being_6_minutes_late_to_a_meeting.html

[Azimuth]

21 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

At least you're not a felon for being 6 minutes late...

https://www.nj.com/burlington/index.ssf/2017/06/i_am_a_felon_for_being_6_minutes_late_to_a_meeting.html
 

He isn't either. A court martial is neither a felony or misdeameanor. Depends on the state he decides to live in after. Most consider confinement for more than a year as a felony. However he was convicted for Failure to Go, a military related only offense. Most civilian employers won't care, if a background check even finds it.

[Runr6730]

5 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Here's a quote I heard from a JAG.

"I don't go up and tell pilots how to fly when I'm a passenger, I don't know why they keep telling me how to interpret the law."

So here's how libel and slander works.  If I post your OSI interview video, where it's you talking, and then I post your sworn statements showing you lied, you can't be sued for libel or slander.  Why?  You would have the burden of proof to show that for one what I said was a lie (good luck) and then you'd have to proof how it defamed your character.  You gave up the privacy stuff when you made those statements and you made those interviews.  I didn't force you to do that.

Now if you'd like to "open the door" and take me to civil court over this then all of your lies are now admissible.  And there aren't silly rules like Military Rule of Evidence 412 (Military version of the rape shield law) to potentially prevent evidence from coming in, like in a court martial.

Regardless of the legality, posting the OSI interview videos went too far IMHO. If your intent was to highlight your accuser's inconsistent statements to those in a position to do something about it, then why post the interview videos in a public forum?  You've gained the public's awareness simply by posting your story, but posting the OSI videos makes it look like you're trying to get revenge by dragging their names through the dirt. 

[LookieRookie]

58 minutes ago, Runr6730 said:

Regardless of the legality, posting the OSI interview videos went too far IMHO. If your intent was to highlight your accuser's inconsistent statements to those in a position to do something about it, then why post the interview videos in a public forum?  You've gained the public's awareness simply by posting your story, but posting the OSI videos makes it look like you're trying to get revenge by dragging their names through the dirt. 

A lot of times evidence is needed to gain that public awareness. Otherwise, posts are disregarded.

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, Runr6730 said:

Regardless of the legality, posting the OSI interview videos went too far IMHO. If your intent was to highlight your accuser's inconsistent statements to those in a position to do something about it, then why post the interview videos in a public forum?  You've gained the public's awareness simply by posting your story, but posting the OSI videos makes it look like you're trying to get revenge by dragging their names through the dirt. 

Maybe I was trying to drag their names in the dirt? They've have drug my name, career, family in the dirt the last 1.5 years. Maybe I was trying to gain public awareness? The "system fairness" wasn't there, nor was it ever going to be.

The government had two complaining witnesses (girls) who both lied saying they never banged me, then the next day one girl said I sexually assaulted her and the other one said I sexually harassed her. They also had a witness who was former friend, who fucked both of them too, claim I raped both of them and I said a bunch of stuff I never did, then tried to testify against me in court to hide the fact he committed adultery and had unprofessional relationships as well.

So the government turned a blind eye to girls making false official statements, all three of them committed adultery. Yet I'm the one who's held to the letter of the law? Nah, it's all or none, not some.

I then had careerist pussy Commanders who really didn't care about fairness, clemency, and actually holding people accountable. They were too concerned with how horrible it would look for their careers (i.e. fired) if they charged "victims" for their collateral misconduct or gave me any clemency. 

Thr Air Force doesn't give a shit about me or my family or if I can pay rent on the first. Why would I care about them? Surely if these girls, former friend, and leadership did no wrong and did everything right, they would be more than happy to have an internal review of their actions.

These assholes always love controlling information, much like a dictatorship. They HATE their dirty laundry made public. I took their control over the information away from them, now they're freaking out, only because it could possibly affect their careers, they don't care about anyone else.

Ar the end of the day I fucked up and paid more than my fair share of the price. I'm not asking for my job back, or doing the "man I'm innocent, this is bullshit" whine because it's wrong and not true. But everyone is accountable for their actions and someone needs to stand up for this sexual assault witch hunt the DoD is currently doing.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Azimuth

[BashiChuni]

4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

At least you're not a felon for being 6 minutes late...

https://www.nj.com/burlington/index.ssf/2017/06/i_am_a_felon_for_being_6_minutes_late_to_a_meeting.html
 

"It was not about punctuality. It was about this commander sending a message to Mario and punishing him for complaining," said Manago's attorney, Douglas Cody of Hammonton.

 

once again it's usually only d-bags who want to "send a message"

 

[dream big]

Azimuth, wow man.  Sorry you had to go through that.  WTF.  This is one of many reason my peers and I are leaving in droves.  I know countless females in the military that will blatantly lie and desecrate a guy's career if she thinks it will improve her situation.

At an unnamed overseas airlift base..there was a brand new copilot.  Fairly attractive.  Flirting with all the other LTs constantly.  No big deal right?  Well her boyfriend was an IP at another "desired" airlift base......Break break, out of left field she claims she is being "sexually harassed," and claimed two Lt NAVs specifically were sexually harassing her (they weren't.)  She even claimed sexual assault after one of them "touched her shoulder."  Despite 30+ witnesses in their favor, they weren't given an ounce of daylight to tell their side.  Reprimanded/Article 15 without question, grounded for several months and didn't make Captain.  Said female made her way over to the "desirable" airlift base to be with her boyfriend.  

The military justice system is a joke, corrupted by the SJW and political correctness that has infected this once great military the past decade or so.  

[di1630]

Geezus this is depressing to read.

I'm on exchange where there is still porn in the walls, in briefs and trying to bang the enlisted chicks is highly encouraged.

I showed my colleagues some of our USAF SARC stuff and they thought I was joking.


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[sqwatch]

Where are you and how do I go there?


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[uhhello]

20 hours ago, sqwatch said:

Where are you and how do I go there?


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take the blue pill

[Holden]

On 6/21/2017 at 9:38 AM, Azimuth said:

I mean at the time it was fun!

Hey, everyone. This is my latest troll account. And this is my photo:

Edited June 24, 2017 by gearpig

[Bergman]

On 6/22/2017 at 2:44 AM, di1630 said:

trying to bang the enlisted chicks is highly encouraged.

The Sport of Kings!