Hacker Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 On 6/24/2017 at 6:23 PM, Herk Driver said: It may not be that simple as you say, but... What you wrote as the pitfalls of the system is also not quite that simple. There is absolutely still a presumption of innocence and the burden of proof is with the government to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The accused also get to choose judge only or jury. Charges can be amended etc but that can happen on the civil side as well. No, I am not a lawyer, but I have sat as a "judge" on a summary court martial and I can absolutely was not influenced one way or the other when it came to the verdict or the sentence. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Expand Yes, you are totally correct, and I should have been substantially clearer about what I meant in that sentence. Because Art 15s are Administrative punishment, they do not have the presumption of innocence or the same standards of administration or burden of proof as a civilian court. A GCM does as you say.
dream big Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 On 6/24/2017 at 1:30 PM, Disco_Nav963 said: Why in the name of all that is holy did they accept Article 15s? The reprimand is probably coming regardless of the outcome given lower standard of proof, why not go to court for your reputation? Expand They tried man, they tried their hardest to fight this to include the IG, zero help from anyone despite multiple witnesses and character statements. They were also relatively young and despite this tried to use the system to their advantage. To be fair, one of the guys got his reduced to LOR and is doing okay.
Herk Driver Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 On 6/25/2017 at 12:40 AM, dream big said: They tried man, they tried their hardest to fight this to include the IG, zero help from anyone despite multiple witnesses and character statements. They were also relatively young and despite this tried to use the system to their advantage. To be fair, one of the guys got his reduced to LOR and is doing okay. I think he is saying why didn't they turn down the Art 15 and opt for a C-M. Others have posted about the pitfalls of a C-M vs Art 15, but there is no try to turn down a 15. It is a simple initial on the face of the Art 15 paperwork. You have an absolute right to refuse to accept Art 15 punishment and go to court instead. Maybe I am misreading what you are saying.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 1
Guest Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 On 6/25/2017 at 6:49 AM, gearpig said: It's the same guy who made the "hatedont" account and others. He's still making new accounts to talk trash.Maybe there should be a waiting period before you can post...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Azimuth Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) On 6/25/2017 at 6:59 AM, ihtfp06 said: Maybe there should be a waiting period before you can post... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Expand It's probably the dude involved in my court martial. If I were him, I'd probably retain some counsel since the AETC/CC and his Sq/CC just downloaded loaded my evidence file. Edited June 25, 2017 by Azimuth
Champ Kind Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 Starting to get a little personal, here. I think this segment of the thread has run its course...Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 6
Lord Ratner Posted June 25, 2017 Posted June 25, 2017 I don't pay an annual subscription to BO.net to have the drama shut down just when it's getting good...Sent from my Vitamix 450x Professional using Tapatalk 20
FourFans Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) On 6/25/2017 at 9:26 PM, Champ Kind said: Starting to get a little personal, here. I think this segment of the thread has run its course... Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Expand $2 for mis-use of the Walken Comma. Edited June 26, 2017 by FourFans130 spelling...dammit GlassEmpty
GlassEmpty Posted June 26, 2017 Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/26/2017 at 5:15 AM, FourFans130 said: $2 for mis-use of the Walken Coma. Expand $4 for misspelling comma. 7
Azimuth Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Received this message via social media. I guess it's big news? "I had originally talked myself out of writing you altogether but after thinking about how quickly Big Blue turned on you... I've obviously rethought that. I work at AFLOA and you are the talk nearly daily. CSAF has been briefed. I can't help but sit on the sidelines and laugh at this shitshow. Thank you for sharing your story publicly. I hope you press full steam ahead with making as much noise about this as you can on the outside." The AFLOA is the Air Force Legal Operations Agency. 2
GlassEmpty Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 Kinda more like a waffle stomp at this point isn't it?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
FourFans Posted June 27, 2017 Posted June 27, 2017 On 6/27/2017 at 2:07 AM, Azimuth said: Received this message via social media. I guess it's big news? "I had originally talked myself out of writing you altogether but after thinking about how quickly Big Blue turned on you... I've obviously rethought that. I work at AFLOA and you are the talk nearly daily. CSAF has been briefed. I can't help but sit on the sidelines and laugh at this shitshow. Thank you for sharing your story publicly. I hope you press full steam ahead with making as much noise about this as you can on the outside." The AFLOA is the Air Force Legal Operations Agency. Expand Fire for effect and don't quit. Good luck man. 1
Weezer Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) On 5/12/2017 at 11:51 PM, Justonethought said: What exactly are the airlines investing in for the next 10-20 years? In 10 years if they can replace an FO with an algorithm they will. The plane itself is the investment in capital, not the control of the plane. Do you use uber? If you do, would you use it just as much when it shows up to your door without a person and ferries you off to your destination without a driver and at 1/4 the cost? This is a sincerely honest series of questions. Technology is shifting the landscape awfully quickly. Expand Back to this discussion: Boeing Invests in AI startup Edited June 29, 2017 by Weezer Spelling
dream big Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 1:03 PM, Weezer said: Back to this discussion: Boening Invests in AI startup Expand If you're a pilot I wouldn't necessarily freak out. Tech companies invest in ideas all the time - in this case, as the article states, if not necessarily to replace manned commercial airliners but to find "innovative solutions and ideas." It's akin to a C-130 engineer or navigator freaking out in the 1980s when the first J model concept was researched. 30+ years later most of the total force 130 fleet is still flying Hs. Airliners are still flying 1960s airplanes. I don't know many people alive that would get on an automated aircraft, maybe a generation or so from now I especially wouldn't freak out if you are an Air Force pilot. Some of our mission sets are too dynamic to be automated (DACT/OCA/airdrop/low levels/etc.)
Sprkt69 Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 3:33 AM, UltWarrior said: So people are willing to buy a self driving car, but aren't willing to get on an airplane without a pilot? I raise the BS flag. If it makes tickets cheaper, people will fly on a plane with AI running the show because I would. Most of the time you don't even see the pilot when you board the aircraft anyway. Expand This argument again? 1
GlassEmpty Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 3:20 AM, dream big said: I especially wouldn't freak out if you are an Air Force pilot. Some of our mission sets are too dynamic to be automated (DACT/OCA/airdrop/low levels/etc.)I don't think the guys with most concern over this are Air Force guys. That phase has already happened and we live with it daily.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dream big Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) On 6/29/2017 at 3:15 PM, GlassEmpty said: I don't think the guys with most concern over this are Air Force guys. That phase has already happened and we live with it daily. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Expand Or has it? Where do a good majority of Air Force pilots want to be in a few years? ;) Edited June 29, 2017 by dream big
YoungnDumb Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 5:25 PM, dream big said: Or has it? Where do a good majority of Air Force pilots want to be in a few years? ;) Expand At ACSC, a Joint non-flying tour, the Pentagon, HAF tour, or better yet, Aide de Camp for some 4-star. Isn't that what we all dream of? /sarcasm off 2
17D_guy Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 So I know we got off the JQP hype-train a couple of years ago. But his latest one is pretty good and not to hyperbolic. https://www.jqpublicblog.com/corruption-ranks-mcguire-ig-wrongly-dismisses-ncos-reprisal-complaint/ If someone here has some IG experience, please weigh in. Because this one is baffling to me.
FUSEPLUG Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 On 7/1/2017 at 8:33 PM, 17D_guy said: So I know we got off the JQP hype-train a couple of years ago. Expand Yeah, because that site is so infested with ads and click-bait that it's unreadable! I can't go to that site and stream pandora at the same time because it eats up so much bandwidth/processor/battery. 1
Hacker Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 Are people rally surprised anymore when we see that the system is set up to protect the system and Commanders within it, rather than ensure actual justice for the individual servicemember? Seems to me we see this same fact presented over and over every time a new case like this pops up, and act shocked each time as if we didn't know. 2
HU&W Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) On 7/1/2017 at 8:33 PM, 17D_guy said: So I know we got off the JQP hype-train a couple of years ago. But his latest one is pretty good and not to hyperbolic. https://www.jqpublicblog.com/corruption-ranks-mcguire-ig-wrongly-dismisses-ncos-reprisal-complaint/ If someone here has some IG experience, please weigh in. Because this one is baffling to me. Expand Wow, JQP's writing has become difficult to read. That said, I would advise the complainant to review AFI 90-301, 6.6.2.3 (and sub-paragraphs). I would also advise the complainant to consider contacting the DOD IG Hotline at https://www.dodig.mil/Hotline/, MAJCOM IG, or SAF/IGQ https://www.af.mil/Inspector-General-Complaints/ if he/she feels there is wrongdoing by the local IG office. Edited July 2, 2017 by HU&W 2
Azimuth Posted July 2, 2017 Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) On 7/2/2017 at 1:08 AM, HU&W said: Wow, JQP's writing has become difficult to read. That said, I would advise the complainant to review AFI 90-301, 6.6.2.3 (and sub-paragraphs). I would also advise the complainant to consider contacting the DOD IG Hotline at https://www.dodig.mil/Hotline/, MAJCOM IG, or SAF/IGQ https://www.af.mil/Inspector-General-Complaints/ if he/she feels there is wrongdoing by the local IG office. Expand Even if you feel wronged, SAF/IG still "determines" if the complaint is valid for the MAJCOM/IG or even the local IG office to investigate and may possibly kick it down to them. Wanna have a real IG? Take away local IG's because they're worthless. Consolidate all that manpower to the MAJCOM/IG or possibly SAF/IG to do inspections and complaints. Of course every Commander would shit their pants if HHQ IG came in to investigate a complaint instead of the worthless local IG, who's really just a watchdog for the Wing/CC. Edited July 2, 2017 by Azimuth 1
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