What's wrong with the Air Force?

[pawnman]

12 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

A "GAO Fighter Pilot Manning Working Group," whatever that means, is coming to Miramar tomorrow to interview/discuss why everyone is leaving. Separate meeting for Commanders and Co Grade. Should be interesting.

We just hosted that meeting with Gen Rand here at Dyess.  Unfortunately (fortunately?) I was flying and didn't get to attend.  I'm looking forward to hearing what the results were.  Same thing: meeting with commanders, CGOs, and FGOs separately.

[VMFA187]

12 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

 

 

Please, for the love of God don't say "it's not about the money."

 

That won't be a problem. Personally, I'd rather them take the bonus money, and hire dedicated civilians for all the ground jobs to take care of all the administrative duties so we can focus on what is important, rather than keeping all the collateral work and getting paid more. But money is clearly part of the issue for people with the amount of money that we all have had invested in us who have the available options we do.

Edited August 4, 2017 by VMFA187

[PlanePhlyer]

Anybody heard of the Second Assignment In Place plan potentially coming out?  Read some specifics on it the other day, can't say I'm all that impressed. 

[Guest]

Anybody heard of the Second Assignment In Place plan potentially coming out?  Read some specifics on it the other day, can't say I'm all that impressed. 

Haven't heard anything about it. What's the gist?

[magnetfreezer]

10 hours ago, pawnman said:

We just hosted that meeting with Gen Rand here at Dyess.  Unfortunately (fortunately?) I was flying and didn't get to attend.  I'm looking forward to hearing what the results were.  Same thing: meeting with commanders, CGOs, and FGOs separately.

Question (to paraphrase): If the AF is so concerned about rated retention, why the lower promotion rates for rated on the recent boards

Answer/analogy: The quarterback is the star player on the football team, but we need to remember that the game couldn't happen without everyone else, even the waterboy.

I'm pretty sure I have less training to do to become a waterboy for the Patriots than to replace Tom Brady...

Also, if we think we have it bad because of XXX, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad.

[VMFA187]

The meeting was comprised of two individuals who are tasked to create a report to the Senate Armed Services Committee to be published at the end of the calendar year. They were simply here to listen to fighter pilots and get an answer for A) if retention is actually an issue or will be, and if so, B) why? Salient points were communicated and we were told that in their meetings with higher levels of service members, only one service, and you can guess which one, has admitted it has a fighter pilot retention problem. They are also the only ones who are coming up with possible solutions.

[PlanePhlyer]

9 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Haven't heard anything about it. What's the gist?

Gist is that Maj's w/>14 yrs TAFMS and O-5s w/>17 yrs TAFMS can apply to spend another 3 yrs at their base. It's a program that they apply for and is approved by the WG/CC. I think it's still in the inputs phase. It seems like a dog and pony show IMHO. The ADP and reclama process should do this, but AFPC does whatever the hell they want. Latest is that I'm on the VML but never got notified and it's after the reclama window. Can't wait to fly for the airlines. UFB. 

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, magnetfreezer said:

Question (to paraphrase): If the AF is so concerned about rated retention, why the lower promotion rates for rated on the recent boards

Answer/analogy: The quarterback is the star player on the football team, but we need to remember that the game couldn't happen without everyone else, even the waterboy.

I'm pretty sure I have less training to do to become a waterboy for the Patriots than to replace Tom Brady...

Also, if we think we have it bad because of XXX, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad.

The answer to that one is that we suck at writing OPRs and developing our people.  No word on when we'll start valuing leadership in the cockpit vs leadership from a desk.

[pawnman]

36 minutes ago, PlanePhlyer said:

Gist is that Maj's w/>14 yrs TAFMS and O-5s w/>17 yrs TAFMS can apply to spend another 3 yrs at their base. It's a program that they apply for and is approved by the WG/CC. I think it's still in the inputs phase. It seems like a dog and pony show IMHO. The ADP and reclama process should do this, but AFPC does whatever the hell they want. Latest is that I'm on the VML but never got notified and it's after the reclama window. Can't wait to fly for the airlines. UFB. 

Sounds nice, but we're already being told you're not competitive for promotion unless you have "breadth" and "do something other than flying".  Look at your WG/CC and OG/CC...they probably have a half-dozen PCSes in the last ten years.  You can stay where you are if you want to just fly the line as a major.

Of course, this problem will run headlong into the RSAP problem, and you'll quickly have a drought of O-5s when we can't send ANYONE to staff because EVERY squadron is critically manned...no word on that solution.

[Termy]

"Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad."

They didn't really say that, did they? Tell me they didn't say that. 

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, Termy said:

"Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad."

They didn't really say that, did they? Tell me they didn't say that. 

I do not think it was a they, I think it was a he as in Gen Robin Rand AFGSC/CC. That would align with past statements he has said to AFGSC aircrew.

Edited August 5, 2017 by LookieRookie
Forgot a not

[SurelySerious]

1 hour ago, Termy said:

"Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad."

They didn't really say that, did they? Tell me they didn't say that. 

 

1 hour ago, LookieRookie said:

I do think it was a they, I think it was a he as in Gen Robin Rand AFGSC/CC. That would align with past statements he has said to AFGSC aircrew.

Checks. Reference his "we're not losing jets like Nam" comments as well. 

[DirtyFlightSuit]

14 hours ago, magnetfreezer said:

Question (to paraphrase): If the AF is so concerned about rated retention, why the lower promotion rates for rated on the recent boards

Answer/analogy: The quarterback is the star player on the football team, but we need to remember that the game couldn't happen without everyone else, even the waterboy.

I'm pretty sure I have less training to do to become a waterboy for the Patriots than to replace Tom Brady...

Also, if we think we have it bad because of ###, we need to go to see those in Walter Reed and reconsider if we really have it that bad.

 

I've had it with these bullshit equivalency arguments from leadership citing how "good" we have it compared to XYZ community.   Gen Rand has so many F#$% fanboys here at RND its insane, yet every time he talks this kind of bullshit those fanboys are on their knees gulping down the massive load.  Gen  Now land and his little meeting was only marginally better and at least by the end he seemed to be properly whipped into the correct mindset (time will tell).  Before that I've heard the same kind of crap from numerous commanders when we complained about ops tempo with deployments stacked on top of TDY's, reinforced that we are "At War" as if that has any ing meaning any more after over 15 years.  There is a reason I didn't join the Marines or Army, and while those patriots at Walter Reed deserve nothing but our utmost respect, they are not to be used as tools for ignoring the issues the force faces today.  When I bring up leadership failings in a conversation it generally leads to a "well so and so is a good guy etc", but I feel more and more that regardless of how good a commander or leader you may be, your now culpable for this mess and arguing who the good ones versus bad ones is a waste of time.  As it stands the effect is they are all bad because the outcome is shit, until any thing starts getting fix'd they are all failures in my book until proven otherwise don't care how cool they were before or are now.   

[Snooter]

5 minutes ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

 

I've had it with these bullshit equivalency arguments from leadership citing how "good" we have it compared to XYZ community.   Gen Rand has so many F#$% fanboys here at RND its insane, yet every time he talks this kind of bullshit those fanboys are on their knees gulping down the massive load.  Gen  Now land and his little meeting was only marginally better and at least by the end he seemed to be properly whipped into the correct mindset (time will tell).  Before that I've heard the same kind of crap from numerous commanders when we complained about ops tempo with deployments stacked on top of TDY's, reinforced that we are "At War" as if that has any ing meaning any more after over 15 years.  There is a reason I didn't join the Marines or Army, and while those patriots at Walter Reed deserve nothing but our utmost respect, they are not to be used as tools for ignoring the issues the force faces today.  When I bring up leadership failings in a conversation it generally leads to a "well so and so is a good guy etc", but I feel more and more that regardless of how good a commander or leader you may be, your now culpable for this mess and arguing who the good ones versus bad ones is a waste of time.  As it stands the effect is they are all bad because the outcome is shit, until any thing starts getting fix'd they are all failures in my book until proven otherwise don't care how cool they were before or are now.   

At least those guys have someone who will tell them like it is instead of quibbling...

[DirtyFlightSuit]

Oh they've been told many times, I've simply given up as it always falls on deaf ears.   I'm in the "well I tried so screw it" mode.

Edited August 5, 2017 by DirtyFlightSuit

[LookieRookie]

HAF is going to give crew rest waivers to WG/CC and possibly SQ/CC.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/09/19/goldfein-crew-rest-decisions-will-soon-be-made-by-wing-squadron-commanders/

 

On one hand, I see empowering the lower level commanders, on the other, now we can pump those rookie numbers up.

 

"Goldfein said the Air Force doesn’t have a problem with airmen not getting enough crew rest, and he doesn’t expect the change to result in more waivers being granted."

 

This quote makes no sense. Of course there are no issues because it has to be waived at the flag level.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by LookieRookie

[ThreeHoler]

It was opposed at the MAJCOM O-6 level. All the MAJCOM/A3s said "Great idea, boss."

Hopefully the final GM includes the added text making the PIC the final decision maker to accept or reject reduced/waived crew rest.

 

[LiquidSky]

As the 7th fleet and the rest of the Navy are learning this lesson over again why in the hell are we taking steps backwards? All I see is tons of potential for misuse or abuse leading to accidents down the line.

Edited September 20, 2017 by LiquidSky

[war007afa]

8 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

It was opposed at the MAJCOM O-6 level. All the MAJCOM/A3s said "Great idea, boss."

Hopefully the final GM includes the added text making the PIC the final decision maker to accept or reject reduced/waived crew rest.

 

PIC has always been the waiver acceptance authority. Also charged with the safe conduct of the flight and mission. 

[FourFans]

23 minutes ago, war007afa said:

PIC has always been the waiver acceptance authority. Also charged with the safe conduct of the flight and mission. 

Not if you ask 603rd or the CAOC's AMD judging by the number of times I heard: "We've got the waiver already approved for you..." when I never asked for it.

I can see both sides of this argument, but I don't understand why they picked this particular target right now.  Like putting a JDAM on the outhouse of a SAM site.  Maybe it's been on the chopping block for a while, but as a priority seems right up there with rolling up sleeves.

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

Not if you ask 603rd or the CAOC's AMD judging by the number of times I heard: "We've got the waiver already approved for you..." when I never asked for it.

I can see both sides of this argument, but I don't understand why they picked this particular target right now.  Like putting a JDAM on the outhouse of a SAM site.  Maybe it's been on the chopping block for a while, but as a priority seems right up there with rolling up sleeves.

The SECAF also made comments at the AFA conference about how "We don't got this" with doing more with less.

 

Crew rest waivers seems exactly like doing more with less.

[tac airlifter]

I like this change.  I've asked for crew rest waivers and been denied.  If the SQ/CC and AC want it and judge the mission benefit worth the risk, it's dumb that someone disconnected from the mission can deny it.  I guess every corner of the AF is different but our waiver authority is MAJCOM A3 who is not tracking daily missions and will always say no, even for TIC support.  So to me, this is a good change because it removes obstacles to the mission.  If you're worried your leadership will now bully you into accepting missions you aren't safe to execute, well that sucks.  Say no, that's always your right.

[Day Man]

and now it won't stop you from making major!

[DirtyFlightSuit]

12 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

I like this change.  I've asked for crew rest waivers and been denied.  If the SQ/CC and AC want it and judge the mission benefit worth the risk, it's dumb that someone disconnected from the mission can deny it.  I guess every corner of the AF is different but our waiver authority is MAJCOM A3 who is not tracking daily missions and will always say no, even for TIC support.  So to me, this is a good change because it removes obstacles to the mission.  If you're worried your leadership will now bully you into accepting missions you aren't safe to execute, well that sucks.  Say no, that's always your right.

Yes it is your right, and unfortunately I've seen good people get burned for exercising good judgement.  Allowing waivers for crew rest at lower levels even when PIC is final authority weakens his ability to do so without possible reprisal in the form of poor feed back on OPRs for not being a "team player".   Sure I've said no to many, but I've also had really good commanders 90% of the time that backed me up each time, I've seen many whom have not been so lucky.   This is a bad idea, more rest is always better even when you request a waiver your probably better off going to the hotel that night.  The only time I'd even entertain a waiver is if we were stuck in a less than ideal situation for crew rest and continuing on would set us up better in the long run, but that's rare.

[matmacwc]

This change is going to work people to the bone and possibly kill them, what a terrible idea.