What's wrong with the Air Force?

[matmacwc]

4 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

On 10/7/2017 at 2:59 PM, dream big said:

Or when home station coordinates with AMD behind your back to extend duty day to 18 hours so you can bring a tail back home a day earlier for the purposes of an Air show.  

This only stops when ACs have the backbone to say "no."

Good point, they will fry you if you screw up during "extended" crew rest, don't do it.  As a fighter guy I'd say no  and crack a beer.......done.

Edited October 9, 2017 by matmacwc

[Lord Ratner]

Good point, they will fry you if you screw up during "extended" crew rest, don't do it.  As a fighter guy I'd say no  and crack a beer.......done.

I've had to do it once. Got a satcom call in the jet saying our duty day was "approved for extension to 18 hours." I told them since I wasn't the originator of the extension request, I couldn't accept it. Got an incredulous O-5 who didn't think it worked than way, but I quoted the reg and asked if we had a waiver from HAF for me not requesting it. Issue dropped. Didn't even need the extension anyways.

Standard disclaimer about getting in the bad Graces of your CC or DO, but these days they don't have the luxury of black balling people for following the regs

[dream big]

On 10/9/2017 at 12:00 AM, Lord Ratner said:

On 10/8/2017 at 12:59 AM, dream big said:

Or when home station coordinates with AMD behind your back to extend duty day to 18 hours so you can bring a tail back home a day earlier for the purposes of an Air show.  

This only stops when ACs have the backbone to say "no."

I did say no ;)

[HuggyU2]

21 hours ago, matmacwc said:

As a fighter guy I'd say no  and crack a beer.......done.

It's all about S.A. on your event timing.  And this should be briefed early.  

Crack the beer at the earliest possible point... THEN take the phone call from the caller ID that says "SQ/DO"... THEN say "Unable".  

Amateurs...

Got a satcom call in the jet saying our duty day was "approved for extension to 18 hours." 

Hmmm... my advice on cracking the beer would be more difficult.  But you'd be legendary if you used it in this case.  

Edited October 9, 2017 by HuggyU2

[Seriously]

5 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

It's all about S.A. on your event timing.  And this should be briefed early.  

Crack the beer at the earliest possible point... THEN take the phone call from the caller ID that says "SQ/DO"... THEN say "Unable".  

Amateurs...

Hmmm... my advice on cracking the beer would be more difficult.  But you'd be legendary if you used it in this case.  

You guys didn't carry a tube of beer for just such an ocassion?

[matmacwc]

Mine was a night F-16 flight, entire base was cancelled due to blowing snow and top 3 was stringing us along, I'd had enough.

[Seriously]

10 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Mine was a night F-16 flight, entire base was cancelled due to blowing snow and top 3 was stringing us along, I'd had enough.

It's so funny to watch the dominos fall when one PIC has the balls to call it. 

[epsilon]

Since this deals with PT tests (which we all hate)I figured it could fall under "what's wrong with the Air Force" category.

I'm PCS'ing next week with an approx 4.5 month enroute Conus TDY.  My MPF is telling me I have to retake my PT test prior to leaving even though I am current through Jan.  My interpretation of the reg was that I fell into an extended TDY exemption.  They were citing a newish policy that says you have to be current at gaining PCS location plus 42 days.  However, unless I get excellent there is no way the math would work out anyway based on the length of my TDY.  I would still not have the 42 days after RNLTD even if I took one day prior to my class start (assuming only a SAT score).

I really don't want to quibble but I don't want to unnecessarily take it because of a WOM.  Any thoughts or experiences on this?

Thanks

[bronxbomber252]

Show them the reg, then ask them to show you where it is written that you need to meet what they are saying.

[epsilon]

6 minutes ago, bronxbomber252 said:

Show them the reg, then ask them to show you where it is written that you need to meet what they are saying.

Yeah it seems the push is related to this new SECAF policy letter I only saw once a few months ago.  I get the intent but doesn't seem like it was meant to apply to extended TDYs.  But, my base now has it fully implemented on every possible checklist and even the wing front office told me I had to retest.  Figured someone else on here might have dealt with it already.

[tac airlifter]

30 minutes ago, epsilon said:

unless I get excellent there is no way the math would work out anyway based on the length of my TDY.  I would still not have the 42 days after RNLTD even if I took one day prior to my class start (assuming only a SAT score).

I assume you’ve pointed this out to whoever is directing you to test; what is their answer?  If you cannot fulfill requirement of the reg by testing prior to PCS, what is the point of doing so?  Can you take a PFT at your TDY location?  Sorry to answer your question with 3 questions, but understanding their rationale is a prerequisite.

[epsilon]

5 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

I assume you’ve pointed this out to whoever is directing you to test; what is their answer?  If you cannot fulfill requirement of the reg by testing prior to PCS, what is the point of doing so?  Can you take a PFT at your TDY location?  Sorry to answer your question with 3 questions, but understanding their rationale is a prerequisite.

Yes I've tried to use common logic and reasoning and have shown them the reg, but they seem to think this new policy letter supercedes all. I can also take the test at randolph (TDY).   At the same time I don't want to come across as trying to snake out of a PT test.  I'm at a small remote base and don't want to damage the reputation of the bag wearers further.  But yeah, I'll reattack.

Edited October 27, 2017 by epsilon
Jack daniels

[di1630]

.....don't want to damage the reputation of the bag wearers further.

Bag wearers need to stop rolling over at the whim of admin shoe clerks. If the reg is on your side, don't let it slide. If not, smile and take your test. Don't let feelings get in the way of doing what's right because this shit will just continue if nobody stands up to it.

[Weezer]

20 minutes ago, di1630 said:

Bag wearers need to stop rolling over at the whim of admin shoe clerks. If the reg is on your side, don't let it slide. If not, smile and take your test. Don't let feelings get in the way of doing what's right because this shit will just continue if nobody stands up to it.
 

Not sure why this should be limited to bag wearers...shoe clerks shouldn't have to be at the whim of...other shoe clerks either.

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, epsilon said:

Yes I've tried to use common logic and reasoning and have shown them the reg, but they seem to think this new policy letter supercedes all. I can also take the test at randolph (TDY).   At the same time I don't want to come across as trying to snake out of a PT test.  I'm at a small remote base and don't want to damage the reputation of the bag wearers further.  But yeah, I'll reattack.

If they reason that a policy letter supersedes written regulation that's fine.  We also have a policy letter from CSAF saying stop doing dumb shit.  Who adjudicates which letter wins?  Commanders.  Not their front office or worker bees.

  This should, clearly, fall into the realm of dumb shit since you wouldn't be in compliance with the policy even if you execute their proposed COA (for arguments sake, assume you get <90).  I recommend elevating this past the front office to an actual commander, and presenting it as simply as possible: I can't take the test early and still meet the requirement, so I'm planning to take the test a KRND.  If they say execute, do so.  Understand your desire to avoid appearing whiny, but you can attack this very nonsensical policy interpretation in a professional manner (which you're already doing); if folks are offended buy that, it's not your fault. 

[epsilon]

11 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

If they reason that a policy letter supersedes written regulation that's fine.  We also have a policy letter from CSAF saying stop doing dumb shit.  Who adjudicates which letter wins?  Commanders.  Not their front office or worker bees.

  This should, clearly, fall into the realm of dumb shit since you wouldn't be in compliance with the policy even if you execute their proposed COA (for arguments sake, assume you get <90).  I recommend elevating this past the front office to an actual commander, and presenting it as simply as possible: I can't take the test early and still meet the requirement, so I'm planning to take the test a KRND.  If they say execute, do so.  Understand your desire to avoid appearing whiny, but you can attack this very nonsensical policy interpretation in a professional manner (which you're already doing); if folks are offended buy that, it's not your fault. 

Good insight and I think that's my gameplan.  Appreciate your responses. I tread lightly because I'm an old guy in the wing staff and I know that eyes of the young airmen are on the Wg leaders.

But I really just don't understand why the hell the AF keeps putting in place stupid knee jerk policies that cause everyone to flail.  This "memo" I've seen once and promptly deleted months ago...and it looked legit since it came from AFPC.  But what the hell?  Oh, and despite a dozen searches on the internet it hasn't come up.  It just resides with the Chiefs and AFI sticklers.

[Weezer]

8 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

..I recommend elevating this past the front office to an actual commander...

Per the reg (AFI 36-2905), paragraphs 2.25.8 and 9, which have to do with being current when PCSing and also having a 42 day acclimation period following extended (>30 days) TDY, fall under the responsibility of your unit/squadron commander.  This person shouldn't get a say in it if your commander is good with it.  There's also nothing in AFI 36-2905 (Assignments) saying that you have to do this...in fact paragraph  2.40.3.9 says being out of standards does not affect your assignment, in and of itself.

[VMFA187]

"Large portions of the aircraft, including a wing and the fuselage, were found intact after the crash, allowing investigators to identify it as an F-16, police said at the time of the incident."

Incredible investigative skills at play here.

[Buddy Spike]

38 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

"Large portions of the aircraft, including a wing and the fuselage, were found intact after the crash, allowing investigators to identify it as an F-16, police said at the time of the incident."

Incredible investigative skills at play here.

[HossHarris]

Don’t take it. 

 

Treat any extra pt test as a threat to your career, regardless of what shape you’re in  

 

What are are they gonna do, not PCS you?  Time is on your side. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by HossHarris

[ThreeHoler]

A gem in my email:

"A change to the join spouse assignment policy has been approved allowing mil-to-mil couples to serve together at Osan AB, Korea, effective 31 March 2018.  This program has been approved for 36-monhts and implementation status will be reviewed in March 2020.  Because of limiting factors with MilPDS, follow-on policy implications and changing join spouse intent codes in the system, implementation will be by exception until the system is updated for normal operations."

Cool...if mil-mil couples wanted to get their short tours done at the same time...and the same location...sounds like a good deal.

"This change in policy is only for the military couples; dependents are still not authorized to accompany the Airmen to Osan.  Each Airman will be required to live in separate unaccompanied quarters; however, they will receive short tour credit and still be eligible for follow-on consideration."

Aaaaaand that's where the AF goes and fucks it six ways from Tuesday.

[Duck]

If you fail a PT test the week before you PCS, does the AF still PCS you? Just wondering how that would effect you.

[Weezer]

1 hour ago, Buddy Spike said:

I think he was responding to a post I made in another forum following up on the F-16 crash in DC back in April.  Somehow ended up in the wrong forum.

[argo]

20 minutes ago, Duck said:

If you fail a PT test the week before you PCS, does the AF still PCS you? Just wondering how that would effect you.

They still pcs you, if it was your first fail, at least that was the case of a lt in my unit. The fail would just be remediate at your next base.

To note: you would be required to take a test at your current base if your test expired within 30 days after you pcs as well to accomodate for climate acclimation issues etc.

[VMFA187]

2 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

 

50 minutes ago, Weezer said:

I think he was responding to a post I made in another forum following up on the F-16 crash in DC back in April.  Somehow ended up in the wrong forum.

Dudes, I'm ing dying over here laughing at work.

How the **** did that happen?

 

Bonus points Buddy Spike.

Edited October 27, 2017 by VMFA187