What's wrong with the Air Force?

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

I'm probably missing the gist of what you're trying to say...

But barring an injury, if Airmen show up to the PT test and find it high threat and stressful, then they are the problem.  

The AF standards are about as minimal as it gets.  Watching 20-somethings weezing on lap 4 of the 1.5 mile run is pathetic.  

I consistently score around 90 and have never failed a PT test.  I get nervous before every single one.  There is no other measure that has so much ability to impact someone's career.  I know people who have failed a PT test ten years ago who were then prevented from going to WIC.  Meanwhile, I know people who had run-ins with the law who were still allowed to apply.

Even if it's something you can do in your sleep, the stress of knowing every test could end your career is still present and significant.

[FUSEPLUG]

6 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

The AF standards are about as minimal as it gets.  Watching 20-somethings weezing on lap 4 of the 1.5 mile run is pathetic.  

What’s a good age to start the weezing on lap 4?  Asking for a friend....

[HarleyQuinn]

13 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

I'm probably missing the gist of what you're trying to say...

But barring an injury, if Airmen show up to the PT test and find it high threat and stressful, then they are the problem.  

The AF standards are about as minimal as it gets.  Watching 20-somethings weezing on lap 4 of the 1.5 mile run is pathetic.  

I remember you saying that you passed your fitness test after having hip surgery. And you still beat airmen around the track 

I maxed out my fitness test with a herniated disc pressing against a leg nerve. I only had to do the push ups and sit ups. Then I limped my butt out of the gym after maxing those components at 38 years of age. The doctors later figured out what was wrong months later. Point is that I still maxed everything with an injury that required surgery.

When a person fails, I have no sympathy for them.

[17D_guy]

33 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I remember you saying that you passed your fitness test after having hip surgery. And you still beat airmen around the track 

I maxed out my fitness test with a herniated disc pressing against a leg nerve. I only had to do the push ups and sit ups. Then I limped my butt out of the gym after maxing those components at 38 years of age. The doctors later figured out what was wrong months later. Point is that I still maxed everything with an injury that required surgery.

When a person fails, I have no sympathy for them.

You do you, boo.

I've had 2 back surgeries, crushed disc at 19 and then a bone spur compressing the sciatic nerve at 35.  I got addicted to narcotics to deal with the pain while the AF figured it out.  PSA - Withdrawals suck.

Now I've got bone spurs in both heels that look like eagle talons on the x-ray.

I've never failed a PT test, but I've come close.  I can't depend on my body to not fuck itself.  I also carry all of my weight in the midsection, so the tape is a constant struggle.  Every time I get to a place I consider acceptable for PT another part breaks.

I do what I can, track food, diet...workout as directed by the medical hobby shop.  The stress that hits me for PT testing is unlike anything else I've ever done (CDC or promotion testing enlisted, undergrad/grad classes, alone with SrA Hotness, etc.).

[17D_guy]

On 7/29/2018 at 11:46 PM, HarleyQuinn said:

Air Force, AMC pursue initiatives to better retain pilots

https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinion/commentary/2018/07/29/air-force-amc-pursue-initiatives-to-better-retain-pilots/

Most people could probably telework from the states and still get the AFCENT queep accomplished.

Telework for "deployed" folks was actually something I worked on while at 24AF. 

By "worked on" I mean the AMC/A6 called my boss and asked, why setting up accounts on AFCENT for the deployers didn't "just work" to connect to AFNET...AMC/CC project...CSAF visibility...it worked at X location.  Of course, light on details at X location.

Some Comm Sq/CC over-promised & got some hack solution for their specific situation working, sold it as a fix for pilot retention and then fucked up my week.

I don't think we ever got it working because I stopped tracking it when Win10 became the thing and didn't hear about it again.  I hope it did, it's a good idea.

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Telework for "deployed" folks was actually something I worked on while at 24AF. 

By "worked on" I mean the AMC/A6 called my boss and asked, why setting up accounts on AFCENT for the deployers didn't "just work" to connect to AFNET...AMC/CC project...CSAF visibility...it worked at X location.  Of course, light on details at X location.

Some Comm Sq/CC over-promised & got some hack solution for their specific situation working, sold it as a fix for pilot retention and then fucked up my week.

I don't think we ever got it working because I stopped tracking it when Win10 became the thing and didn't hear about it again.  I hope it did, it's a good idea.

You worked on getting people to work at their home job while deployed, you sir, are the devil.

[HarleyQuinn]

3 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

You do you, boo.

I've had 2 back surgeries, crushed disc at 19 and then a bone spur compressing the sciatic nerve at 35.  I got addicted to narcotics to deal with the pain while the AF figured it out.  PSA - Withdrawals suck.

I think back to my test. If my disc had shifted just a bit more doing my sit ups only to pinch my leg nerve even further, I probably wouldn't have any feeling in my leg right now. Could have really messed me up. 

[DirtyFlightSuit]

I love all the badass PT bubba's here.  I get it your fit, you pass the test no problem.   Not every one is like you nor should the be because honestly that would suck.   I also never struggle with the test, but I am also blessed with a small waste and can eat Pizza every day and likely not see much of a change in my overall body composition.  I am lucky and I know it.  I hate running, I dont have a bum knee, I don't have a problem with my back, I don't particularly have any reason to not excel beyond the fact that I to this day have yet to set foot into a gym other than for a PT test (okay not 100% true but close enough).   Should I be working out? Sure, but you know life.  I spend that extra time with my family, with my kids, and more importantly posting bull$S#$ on this forum.  If the AF truly gave two craps about our physical fitness they would mandate time out of the duty day for it, period.   The few locations were I had it scheduled for me I gladly spent that time at the gym.  But when you ask me to knock out 12 hour days and then ask me to find my own time to work out then your full of it.   Granted now I do not have that issue, my days are generally max 10 hour, with many closer to a what I would consider acceptable 8 hour day I have less of a time crunch to lean back on.  But still if it is part of my employment it likely should be part of my expected work day and build into it as such.  

 

[Azimuth]

4 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

alone with SrA Hotness

Abort!

[Skitzo]

I consistently score around 90 and have never failed a PT test.  I get nervous before every single one.  There is no other measure that has so much ability to impact someone's career.  I know people who have failed a PT test ten years ago who were then prevented from going to WIC.  Meanwhile, I know people who had run-ins with the law who were still allowed to apply.
Even if it's something you can do in your sleep, the stress of knowing every test could end your career is still present and significant.

This... failed one as a young Captain because the FAC civilian discounted 10 push-ups and I had a bad run time.

At the time the wife just birthed a set of twins and I was on 4 hours of sleep a night and yup I hadn’t hit the gym in a solid three months because she was on bed rest the two months prior to the blessed day.

Nobody gave a shat about that but here’s the rub.

When I was fortunate enough to command MX ops at Cannon and had an Airman butting up against a PT due date with some life events that had kept them from being prepared I happily filled out the ole commanders exemption and told them to keep in touch if they felt they couldn’t pass after the exemption expired. Dialogue with me, but if life is keeping you from PTing there is probably some other causal factor outside of fitness to blame.

To this day every time I have to take a PT test it takes me several attempts before I nut up and go take it. And no it’s not because I struggle. I’ve scored 83-85 consistently along with a couple of 90s.

I have no similar problem with I/Q or MSN check rides.

My point in this long rambling post is that commanders have been empowered ever since they have had the call to sign a ccs exemption.

If captain x has gained 20 pounds and can’t pass the test there might be reasons other than physical that are causing these issues. Maybe some other reason... like an impending divorce, alcohol abuse, anxiety disorder or some other traumatic event.

Sign the damn exemption, give your airmen the time to deal with life and if after an appropriate amount of time they can’t perform the person is lazy or unfit... you are on g series orders for a reason.

[17D_guy]

4 hours ago, matmacwc said:

You worked on getting people to work at their home job while deployed, you sir, are the devil.

I was only following orders and was told the pilots were dedicated to that job, could just sleep at their homes at night.

No, I didn't believe that story either.

[HarleyQuinn]

4 hours ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

  I also never struggle with the test, but I am also blessed with a small waste and can eat Pizza every day and likely not see much of a change in my overall body composition.  I am lucky and I know it.  

I think you might be suffering from bulimia bro.

Edited August 2, 2018 by HarleyQuinn

[HuggyU2]

Pawnman, your point is well taken, and I appreciate the perspective that I hadn't taken in to account... mainly because I had simply forgotten it in my advanced age.  Same with Skitzo's post.

 

 

 

[Fuzz]

13 hours ago, matmacwc said:

You worked on getting people to work at their home job while deployed, you sir, are the devil.

Word from the unit is that person was completely compartmentalized from the squadron when he was working that job but he did have to make regular trips to Shaw due to IT issues. 

[Buddy Spike]

On 8/1/2018 at 12:40 AM, HuggyU2 said:

I'm probably missing the gist of what you're trying to say...

But barring an injury, if Airmen show up to the PT test and find it high threat and stressful, then they are the problem.  

The AF standards are about as minimal as it gets.  Watching 20-somethings weezing on lap 4 of the 1.5 mile run is pathetic.  

Of course it's not stressful when you're at an "advanced age" and the test consists of shuffleboard and maneuvering through a few cones with your hoveround. 

[nunya]

12 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

maneuvering through a few cones with your hoveround. 

I misread "hoveround" as "hoverboard," and my first thought was, "No way, he'll break his hip on one of those things!"

[HuggyU2]

19 minutes ago, nunya said:

I misread "hoveround" as "hoverboard," and my first thought was, "No way, he'll break his hip on one of those things!"

Silly rabbit. You can’t just break titanium. Didn’t you watch RoboCop?

Now go grab me an Ensure, and go back to eating your FudgeSickle, junior. 

[HarleyQuinn]

I remember someone mentioning this program a few months ago. Where enlisted and officers go through a screening program. Are we screening for an Enders Game scenario already where we need the brightest mind to control all of our Space Force attack drones?

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/08/04/student-pilots-given-unlimited-simulator-time-new-air-force-experiment.html

BREAK BREAK

What thread does this belong in? I think I have seen it all in the  AF now. "Senior Airman claims Air Force discharged him after sexual orientation and HIV status revealed"

https://www.koaa.com/story/38807303/seniorairman-claims-air-force-discharged-him-after-sexual-orientation-and-hiv-status-revealed

Edited August 4, 2018 by HarleyQuinn

[Azimuth]

6 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I remember someone mentioning this program a few months ago. Where enlisted and officers go through a screening program. Are we screening for an Enders Game scenario already where we need the brightest mind to control all of our Space Force attack drones?

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/08/04/student-pilots-given-unlimited-simulator-time-new-air-force-experiment.html

BREAK BREAK

What thread does this belong in? I think I have seen it all in the  AF now. "Senior Airman claims Air Force discharged him after sexual orientation and HIV status revealed"

https://www.koaa.com/story/38807303/seniorairman-claims-air-force-discharged-him-after-sexual-orientation-and-hiv-status-revealed

Since he was acquitted, he can never be tried again in a court martial/Art 15 for the same offense. However, Commanders and JAG’s tap dance around the Double Jeopardy Clause by handing out LOC/LOA/LOR’s and Administrative Separation since it’s not considered “punitive” and it’s an “administrative issue.” Since he wasn’t an NCO, and probably wasn’t in for at least six years, he wasn’t entitled to a separation board. So it went to the Wing King, who was either the Convening Authority or advised the NAF/CC as the Convening Authority for his court martial.

The military justice system allows the government two bites of the proverbial Apple when it comes charged misconduct. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Azimuth

[17D_guy]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:27 PM, Azimuth said:

Since he was acquitted, he can never be tried again in a court martial/Art 15 for the same offense. However, Commanders and JAG’s tap dance around the Double Jeopardy Clause by handing out LOC/LOA/LOR’s and Administrative Separation since it’s not considered “punitive” and it’s an “administrative issue.” Since he wasn’t an NCO, and probably wasn’t in for at least six years, he wasn’t entitled to a separation board. So it went to the Wing King, who was either the Convening Authority or advised the NAF/CC as the Convening Authority for his court martial.

The military justice system allows the government two bites of the proverbial Apple when it comes charged misconduct. 

File this under - "Congratulations, you're not guilty but you're a pain in the ass.  There's the door."

[Swizzle]

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1595836/innovative-1st-rs-training-provides-rq-4-student-pilots-valuable-flying-experie/

Big Blue gives out innovation $, in turn RPA drivers buy in-cockpit flight time...who knew they'd want to do such a thing, and gasp that's its having benefits back to Big Blue.

Why wasn't this done earlier? Like 10 years ago?

Fund and approve more Aeroclubs! Especially near RPA drivers!

Edited August 8, 2018 by Swizzle

[ThreeHoler]

Sounds vaguely like the old companion trainer program where bases had Tweets or Talons for seasoning.

What is old is new again.

[pcola]

Why put that positive article about Sq level initiative and improving QOL and Mission simultaneously in the “What’s wrong with the Air Force?” thread?

[MooseAg03]

Why put that positive article about Sq level initiative and improving QOL and Mission simultaneously in the “What’s wrong with the Air Force?” thread?

Because after two decades of flying RPAs, this is the first ever paired manned flying program. What happens when you pull pilots from the cockpit and stick them in a shipping container for 4 years? You get crusty bitter old pilots like me who hate the Air Force.

[Stitch]

4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Sounds vaguely like the old companion trainer program where bases had Tweets or Talons for seasoning.

What is old is new again.

So buy up a 100 or so T-53s (Cirrus SR-20s) like they have at the Zoo, divide among RPA units & TA-DA!  the ACE program is reborn.  Of course under a whole new name so everyone thinks this is some brand new idea....