What's wrong with the Air Force?

[BashiChuni]

or how about this... its against the fucking UCMJ.

boom. roasted.

i think i could fly just fine on one single beer and it wouldn't affect my military competency at all. and i could drink it in my personal life at my own house.

but its against the rules bro.

Edited September 19, 2018 by BashiChuni

[gearpig]

12 minutes ago, katdude said:

@hindsight2020 Me being in the Army Reserve for 3 years now - All I heard was that the Air Force indeed has the hottest women. And agree that hot chicks in an infantry squad or special ops squad will somewhat jeopardize the mission. Not because the chick in question in unable to carry out the mission; but because the dudes are "worried" about the safety of that chick during the mission.

Agree, personal life should be kept personal. That banging should happen out side of work in a hotel room, not in and around work area. But you know there's always these people that get a kick out of doing these things where they are not supposed to do it. That's the adrenaline in them giving them a high. Of course they have to suffer the consequences if they get caught.

@BashiChuni and @LookieRookie For downvoting what I said, please note I did mention that 

"As long as their personal relationships are not affecting their military competency"

And obviously they are not competent if they are "banging your professional life at work when explicitly told not too"

 

Just now, BashiChuni said:

or how about this its against the ing UCMJ.

boom. roasted.

 

The FUCMJ?

[katdude]

What are the rules of drinking alcohol in the military when you are a pilot? Are you allowed to drink the night before if you have an AM flight the next day?

[BashiChuni]

dang it i've been trolled. i'm out.

[raimius]

Quote

I like this discussion. I feel like love and sexual relationships are a personal issue. Serving in the military is a professional thing. It is unfair to punish someone for their actions in their personal life. Just because people are married doesn't mean they love each other. Not all men can stay in love with one woman for the rest of their life. As long as their personal relationships are not affecting their military competency, I think military personnel should not be punished. But what do I know?

Quote

What are the rules of drinking alcohol in the military when you are a pilot? Are you allowed to drink the night before if you have an AM flight the next day?

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by raimius

[HarleyQuinn]

3 hours ago, YoungnDumb said:

But when your personal life involves banging your professional life at work when explicitly told not too, there is a bit of an issue. 

Does that include the swing fest that happened at base ###? Wasn't there a few husband and wives participating? I can't recall all the details.

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, katdude said:

What are the rules of drinking alcohol in the military when you are a pilot? Are you allowed to drink the night before if you have an AM flight the next day?

Twelve hours bottle to throttle.  And it doesn't affect the grading of the IP when he ends up flying with the student he's railing.

[Bigred]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Twelve hours bottle to throttle.  And it doesn't affect the grading of the IP when he ends up flying with the student he's railing.

I thought it was no drinking within 50 feet of the aircraft and no smoking 12 hours before flight.

You know, because hypoxia. 

[HossHarris]

8hrs in the airline world...

[Duck]

God, reading through that doc reminded me of how bad the AF fcuked up that investigation and the subsequent witch hunt. I feel for the guys wife. What’s the Capt up to now? I’m assuming major airlines have a hard time with a Court Martial and Dishonorable Discharge.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

God, reading through that doc reminded me of how bad the AF fcuked up that investigation and the subsequent witch hunt. I feel for the guys wife. What’s the Capt up to now? I’m assuming major airlines have a hard time with a Court Martial and Dishonorable Discharge.

Depends on the airline and how bad that airline is hurting for pilots...

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Tank

[Hacker]

I'm sure there are a ton of regional airlines that'd hire him.

[hindsight2020]

26 minutes ago, Hacker said:

I'm sure there are a ton of regional airlines that'd hire him.

Maybe. But a dismissal is a felony equivalent in civilian employment circles. So even for regionals it's probably a stretch; the regionals have plenty of low time applicants with clean criminal records. This cat is marked. Nobody in the civilian world gets confinement for consensual sex. So it's not an even playing field, when it comes to UCMJ adjudications versus the civilian criminal law landscape. I am of the opinion his sentence was an overreach.

And to keep it in the BUFF family: Kelly Flynn (ugh, beer word) got a straight up pass for doing the same fucking thing in 1997, while arguing sexist bias towards her as an affirmative defense for her bored fucketry in Minot, and the lack of hands or work ethic as a short-stint Buff co-pilot (IOW, the golden key defense, STANDARD). Walked away from a court martial outright, and into a layup general discharge, which allowed her into ASA and the eventual UPS job she's been riding on since 2005, her name legally changed of course.

Nevermind the fact she got zero confinement for her equal disregard for the almighty UCMJ. The civilians at the time absolutely sided with her in her quest to decry the anachronisms of the "patriarchal military justice system". But this cat does the same thing 20 years later, even making a similar UCI argument on appeal no less, and this is all of a sudden blasphemy? I can't stand that hypocrisy.

Look, I don't personally know this cat, but what they did to him punishment wise is bullshit. Hell, give him confinement as the price for pulling that insubordinate sexual stunt (beats a barrel roll in a Q400 I suppose). But the dismissal (dishonorable equivalent for officer) was flagrant. Different spanks for different genitals. Equality my ass.

The SQ/CC in question was a straight up POS, and ruined the careers of other young men who actually didn't do anything but be falsely accused by the spouses of bitter SNAPs who didn't get their dream assignment. Not a good track record for DLF on this front.

Edited September 20, 2018 by hindsight2020

[Hacker]

4 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Maybe. But a dismissal is a felony equivalent in civilian employment circles. So even for regionals it's probably a stretch; the regionals have plenty of low time applicants with clean criminal records.

I think you're seriously underestimating the magnitude of the staffing crisis at the regionals.  "Plenty" is not an accurate term.

I know of a guy who went to jail for manslaughter....drove his 2-seater Porsche with two women crowded in the passenger seat while drunk, and the drive ended in a fiery crash that killed one of them...and who was hired at the regionals (by more than one airline, actually).

So...I am certain our disgraced IP he could find a regional that would hire him with a little looking.

[Sua Sponte]

9 minutes ago, Hacker said:

I think you're seriously underestimating the magnitude of the staffing crisis at the regionals.  "Plenty" is not an accurate term.

I know of a guy who went to jail for manslaughter....drove his 2-seater Porsche with two women crowded in the passenger seat while drunk, and the drive ended in a fiery crash that killed one of them...and who was hired at the regionals (by more than one airline, actually).

So...I am certain our disgraced IP he could find a regional that would hire him with a little looking.

There’s a former Boom Operator, turned AFSOC pilot, who was court martialed for drugs. He’s currently flying for a famous cargo company. Anything can happen. Timing is everything and it’s all about who you know.

[Sprkt69]

https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2018/09/18/air-force-wants-halt-pilot-attrition-appealing-sense-community.html

I’m not sure SECAF and the rest of management actually understand the problem they have with manning or know the meaning of the word “trust”

[ARAMP1]

21 minutes ago, Sprkt69 said:

https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2018/09/18/air-force-wants-halt-pilot-attrition-appealing-sense-community.html

I’m not sure SECAF and the rest of management actually understand the problem they have with manning or know the meaning of the word “trust”

"I can't offer you the compensation that Delta Airlines can," Holmes said. "What we can offer you is a life of meaning and purpose. 

You know, while I had this week off from work, I had time to think about how my life was devoid of "meaning and purpose".  Well, I better get going...I have a busy evening.  Got to take the kids to soccer practice then scouts...in my brand new Porsche.  

[Danger41]

He also said in his next sentence “I want you to feel like you are a part of a community … the squadron is the place where that community exists."

Do you get the sense of community at whatever airline you’re at? I highly doubt it.

But the hilarious part of all this to me is that we’ve all got a very lucrative skill set and the AF seems to be trying to do this on the cheap. I love the camaraderie and know that I will miss it. But the financial differences are just too great to turn them down for patriotism when there’s no will to actually end this boondoggle of a “war” we’re in.

[isuguy1234]

I also noted this quote..........

"We have asked them to do a lot over 25 years," said Gen. Mike Holmes, head of Air Combat Command. He spoke during a panel addressing the service's pilot shortage at the Air Force Association Air, Space and Cyber conference.

 

HEAD!!  who said head?!?!.................

 

Speaking of community, remember when it was killed?  Quote from a few previous bros, "I used to do these things and sing these songs, but now I forbid you!"

[di1630]

Anytime I hear “diversity” and “retention” in the same short speech, it reinforces to me that talk is hollow and even though these people “may” understand the root causes of poor retention, politics reign supreme and they’ll say whatever makes them look good.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

 

[Jaded]

1 hour ago, ARAMP1 said:

"I can't offer you the compensation that Delta Airlines can," Holmes said. "What we can offer you is a life of meaning and purpose. 

Ah, a life of meaning and purpose, felt so strongly by C-130 pilots dropping off and picking up the same pallets of water around the AOR for 4 months in a row, or by a fighter pilot starting their 4th hour of orbiting supporting a JTAR that the army forgot existed 9 months ago, or by the major spending 365 days away from his family building powerpoint slides that people glance at for seconds at a time, or the captain right in the middle of the IPUG who spent a weekend finishing up OPRs on his guys that don't even end up going in front of a board.

This whole thread is a testament to the meaning and purpose the Air Force provides.

[dream big]

“The composition of flight squadrons needs to reflect the entire U.S. population, he said. Squadrons today, particularly fighter squadrons, are still mostly composed of white males, something that must change to reflect the country's demographics, he added.”

....Yepp, this is why pilots are leaving the Air Force, too many white males!! YGBFSM

 

[Hacker]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

“The composition of flight squadrons needs to reflect the entire U.S. population, he said. Squadrons today, particularly fighter squadrons, are still mostly composed of white males, something that must change to reflect the country's demographics, he added.”

....Yepp, this is why pilots are leaving the Air Force, too many white males!! YGBFSM

 

They really are this stupid.

[SocialD]

Twenty-five years of continuous combat have made Air Force fliers the "best the world has ever seen," Holmes said.

...at low threat CAS.  The bad part is you’ve treated your people so badly that all your experience has left, leaving you to relearn the same lessons over and over…the hard/expensive way.  You have active duty OGs begging the Guard to send experienced FLIGHT LEADS (not just IPs), to come help with their upgrades.  

The composition of flight squadrons needs to reflect the entire U.S. population, he said. Squadrons today, particularly fighter squadrons, are still mostly composed of white males, something that must change to reflect the country's demographics, he added.

Yes, this is EXACLY it!  Just the other day we were commenting about our diversity (or lack thereof) and how much it’s impacting the tactical prowess of the squadron!  DUBYA TEE EFF!!!

While the pilot shortage remains less of a problem in the Guard, "the crisis is coming," Rice said.

Yes, yes it is!  But please, keep denying the big bonus for 1 year orders, it’s really helping the situation…  Also, keep denying us full ACIP even though we, as part timers, maintain the same currencies  and fly as much as a full timer/AD guy. 

"I can't offer you the compensation that Delta Airlines can," Holmes said. "What we can offer you is a life of meaning and purpose. I want you to feel like you are a part of a community … the squadron is the place where that community exists."

Yes, I love “deploying” for over 4 months to go fly TRAINING lines on NON-contingency orders (blue pill 12301D vs red pill 12304B).  Made even better by sending me to a location with terrible weather and terrible navaids causing us to cancel more than we fly.  Why am I taking this massive pay cut again?  SO MUCH MEANING!!!

I love the insinuation that I get no meaning from my Delta job.  On the contrary I quite enjoy the gig.  I get people (to include mil charters) where they want to go and I fly with lots of great people, including lot of former mil guys.  On my last trip, at the hotel bar I ran into a buddy from an Afghanistan deployment.  We hit the town with both our crews and had a blast.  The hotel bar is like a reunion every time I go and is always fun.  The crazy part is none of us worry about if we’ll have to fight to get paid properly or if we’ll have to jump through hoop after hoop just to make shit function normally.  Then we all get to go home and spend a metric fuck ton of time doing what we want to do with our 18-21 days off per month.  Bonus, I also have shit ton more money to do the things I like to do with my awesome amount of free time.

I’ll tell you what, I do get some meaning out of all this.  Today I get to go give an incentive ride to a top-notch engine troop who is a longtime friend from my enlisted days.  This will be the most meaningful thing I’ve done in a long time…and I “deployed” this year.  Let’s just hope it doesn’t get ruined by a “higher priority," since the AD technically has TACON (or some kind of CON) of our jets for right now. 

[FUSEPLUG]

6 hours ago, dream big said:

“The composition of flight squadrons needs to reflect the entire U.S. population, he said. Squadrons today, particularly fighter squadrons, are still mostly composed of white males, something that must change to reflect the country's demographics, he added.”

 

Holy shit, he actually said that. I suppose this means I should stop serving in order to reduce the number of white males in my squadron.  Need to make room for a non-caucasian female.