What's wrong with the Air Force?

[matmacwc]

10 hours ago, Tyking said:

 I want to have a fair shot of flying fighters through my preformace at flight school; not by if a unit likes me or not.

That’s ignorant at best, whoever taught you that doesn’t know how this all works.  If your training unit or eventual CAF unit doesn’t like you, you won’t fly fighters or for long.  Other than that, you haven’t been paying attention.

[MechGov]

Thanks for the reply! I have thought about the gaurd and reserve. However, my family and I don’t really like the uncertainty that the gaurd/reserve can bring. I like the all or nothing aspect that active duty gives. Plus I’m a F-15 crew chief by trade, so with that being said I want to fly fighters. I want to have a fair shot of flying fighters through my preformace at flight school; not by if a unit likes me or not.

Having gotten my wings during the great RPA scourge that was 2009, I considered myself lucky to get a manned platform. I think we had more RPAs in some drops than a year of pointy nose drops.

That being said, times have changed and I hear Big Blue is hurting for fighter pilots. But if you know without the shadow of a doubt that you want to be a fighter pilot, find an ANG or reserve unit to hire you. UPT will be hard enough w/o having to always compete to be #1-2/30. Me? I went in thinking I wanted fighters, mostly, then my mind changed when I saw other cool missions in the AF (and when I realized I wasn’t the best pilot at UPT).

Again, probably wouldn’t do it differently today, but back then I had absolutely zero idea how to get a job Guard/Reserve, let alone become a pilot. It’s a best kept secret from 2Lts. I’d highly recommend checking it out seriously.

[brabus]

For the next 6-9 years, I don’t think finding a full time position in the ARC will be that hard. When the airlines stop hiring maybe it’ll go back to the old days of having to kill your own mom to get one, but those days are over...for now. At your age, I highly recommend pursuing the ARC...nothing wrong with going fighters in UPT as a guard guy (and I say that as a previous AD guy who didn’t go to ENJJPT and had to compete for 38s and a fighter assignment).

Edited April 9, 2019 by brabus

[raimius]

6 hours ago, Shazaam said:

New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage:

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/dod-personnel-notebook/2019/04/new-study-shows-grim-outlook-for-future-of-air-force-pilot-shortage/

Yeah, I've seen maybe 1/6th of the promised improvements (cutting of CBTs was noticed, but moving additional duties to the CSS which is also staffed mainly by aircrew didn't do much).  The bonus is also right back to what it had been for my AFSC, but the civilian airline opportunities are dramatically greater than 5 yrs ago... Seems more like lip service sts than a response to a real crisis.

[DuckHunter]

$100k would keep me in, no doubt.  I feel like this is just a case of “Oh, the RAND study didn’t tell us what we wanted, so we are just going to pretend like it didn’t happen.”  

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again after leaving a UPT base last year, instead of just training 1k pilots to leave in 10 years now we are just training 1.4k pilots to leave. 

[Swizzle]

Everyone will take closer note when the biggest pool of pilots by MAJCOM/core AFSC declines year over year 5-6%. The faster that pool declines into the red, the more attention and political support retention methods will get. Majority rules. Chalk it up to a psychological effect, or put in other words, damn the biggest group flopped from overage to major shortfall that fast (bureaucratically speaking)...!?

Side note: an interesting development is the politcal language created to say we are deepening in this crisis to a point we can't produce our way out of it...in a big way "absorption" problems = too few IPs to train new recruits production rate needed IMHO. When they advertise unforeseen delays in training non-MX or WX related, it is real baaadddd.

Why not spin that language! Don't waste a good crisis! Right, right? ...ugh

[Shazaam]

Mod must have accidentally deleted because I duplicated it. Just reposting gentlemen.

New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage:

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/dod-personnel-notebook/2019/04/new-study-shows-grim-outlook-for-future-of-air-force-pilot-shortage/

Edited April 20, 2019 by Shazaam

[BashiChuni]

“RIFed officers who are deployed, but are scheduled to return after Jan. 1, have the option of cutting their deployment short and returning home by Jan. 1, in which case they would separate no later than April 30. Their other option is to complete some or all of their current deployment and return home after Jan. 1, as long as their deployed commander agrees. Those airmen who remain on deployment will have to separate between 30 days and four months of their return date, and must leave no later than Nov. 30, 2015. They also must separate before they complete 18 years of total active federal military service

Deployed officers who are RIFed and scheduled to return on or earlier than Jan. 1 will separate no later than April 30, like other RIFed officers.”

 

i remember RIF/VSP. Funny don’t recall hearing about a crisis when big blue was telling pilots to GTFO. Or when generals/wing commanders were telling pilots “if you don’t like it, leave you’re replaceable” or that morale was “pretty darn good”  

Feels good hearing the machine squeal...couldn’t happen to a better bloated bureaucracy. Know your worth. 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/education-transition/jobs/2014/11/19/air-force-begins-notifying-rifed-officers/

Edited April 17, 2019 by BashiChuni

[raimius]

9 hours ago, DuckHunter said:

$100k would keep me in, no doubt.  I feel like this is just a case of “Oh, the RAND study didn’t tell us what we wanted, so we are just going to pretend like it didn’t happen.”  

I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again after leaving a UPT base last year, instead of just training 1k pilots to leave in 10 years now we are just training 1.4k pilots to leave. 

To be fair, the RAND study did show a drop off in added retention above $30-40k.  You get the most people to stay by giving $100k, but you still get a bunch of those at $30-40k.  That said, if this was really a "crisis" to Big Blue, HAF would still ask for the $100k to keep the most people--that they don't have the guts/desire to even ask says something.

[Majestik Møøse]

58 minutes ago, raimius said:

To be fair, the RAND study did show a drop off in added retention above $30-40k.  You get the most people to stay by giving $100k, but you still get a bunch of those at $30-40k.  That said, if this was really a "crisis" to Big Blue, HAF would still ask for the $100k to keep the most people--that they don't have the guts/desire to even ask says something.

The study’s conclusion was that cost per trained pilot continued to decrease even as the bonus was increased through 100k.

[Guardian]

I think the percentages of takes are skewed. I think that since more people left that not only did fewer people take the bonus but there were fewer eligible because they left. I don’t think it takes that into account. There should be a stat for those who are eligible to stay and take a retainer bonus.

[raimius]

6 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

The study’s conclusion was that cost per trained pilot continued to decrease even as the bonus was increased through 100k.

True, but I think whoever was looking at it from HAF (if anyone) probably bit off on the flattening of the bonus vs takers chart at the $30-40k mark.  That would indicate that above that amount, the bonus will sway fewer people per dollar added.  It would still keep getting more takers through $100k, but the "efficiency" of bonus money goes down above that $30-40k mark.

The AF is calling it a crisis, but still wants to pay as little as possible, even if that means prolonging the crisis and losing more experience along the way.  Based on the ACTF Reddit AMA, it's because the AF is too afraid to ask Congress to up the bonus to the RAND results.  (Left unsaid is that they won't even pay people the full flight-pay amount because reasons...?)

Edited April 17, 2019 by raimius

[brabus]

Wing CC: "Why would you not sign this bonus, you're leaving $35K on the table!"

Pilot: "I grossed $35K last month in my other job"

Wing CC: "....fuck"

[Bergman]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

Wing CC: "Why would you not sign this bonus, you're leaving $35K on the table!"

Pilot: "I grossed $35K last month in my other job"

Wing CC: "....fuck"

Other airline bubba: “Oh damn dude, you must have only worked 16-19 days last month!”

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bergman

[di1630]

Wing CC: "Why would you not sign this bonus, you're leaving $35K on the table!"
Pilot: "I grossed $35K last month in my other job"
Wing CC: "...."

Anyone else get pinged by leadership as to why they didn’t sign/renegotiate?

I was considering renegotiating from my current 25k to 35k but this year they reduced the renegotiated amount to 25k which buys me nothing except commitment.

I am truly puzzled by the mismatch between those who say it’s critical to retain experienced pilots and the message of, “You are worth $25k per year down from $35k last year.”


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[Naviguesser]

23 minutes ago, di1630 said:

I am truly puzzled by the mismatch between those who say it’s critical to retain experienced pilots and the message of, “You are worth $25k per year down from $35k last year.”

Who in the AF has been saying that (besides pilots)?

[brabus]

1 hour ago, di1630 said:

Anyone else get pinged by leadership as to why they didn’t sign/renegotiate?

I was considering renegotiating from my current 25k to 35k but this year they reduced the renegotiated amount to 25k which buys me nothing except commitment.

I am truly puzzled by the mismatch between those who say it’s critical to retain experienced pilots and the message of, “You are worth $25k per year down from $35k last year.”


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

I've talked to several bros who have been asked by OG and or WG/CC about not taking bonuses...they all say the general reaction is surprise.  In 2019, leadership is still "surprised" a $15-35K bonus isn't worth shit to us.

[FLEA]

On 4/18/2019 at 7:52 PM, Naviguesser said:

Who in the AF has been saying that (besides pilots)?

Leadership when they lower the bonus 10G. They might not be saying it to the masses but that is what they are saying. Like it or not the value of your labor is largely determined by your investment from your employer. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by FLEA

[12xu2a3x3]

On 4/6/2019 at 9:00 PM, Tyking said:

Plus I’m a F-15 crew chief by trade, so with that being said I want to fly fighters. I want to have a fair shot of flying fighters through my preformace at flight school; not by if a unit likes me or not.

as a former fighter crew chief who attempted the first method, for me at least, ops check bad, recommend the latter.

[Tyking]

1 hour ago, 12xu2a3x3 said:

as a former fighter crew chief who attempted the first method, for me at least, ops check bad, recommend the latter.

Thanks for the advice, what do you fly now? So you would recommend guard/reserve? I have been thinking of pursuing a  fire fighting career. Maybe I’ll establish my self in that field full time and get a PPL under my belt and rush some units. My family and I do love the idea of settling down in one place, unfortunately the place we’re thinking of doing that is North Carolina; which doesn’t have any fighter guard/reserve units.....

[isuguy1234]

Shady J has Reserves right?  Prolly gotta be established in the Strike world for that gig tho. South Carolina isn’t too far away if u are willing to be close to North Carolina instead of IN North Carolina. 

As for the firefighter piece, I used to fly jets with a former firefighter, no kidding. 

On another note, “My father was a fireman....he puts out fires!!  My sister Sal....”

[ToHoldShort]

7 hours ago, isuguy1234 said:

On another note, “My father was a fireman....he puts out fires!!  My sister Sal....”

Was a fireman’s gal....

[magnetfreezer]

https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1821664/air-force-to-establish-weapons-school-for-acquisition-officers/ Not sure if they could get anything done in the 6 month WS class timeline

[Sua Sponte]

Tactics, Techniques, & Procedures include:

- Losing Form 9’s
- Changing “color” of money
- New Sq TV purchases last week of fiscal year
- Official Functions: How to close for training for lunches
- How to fire Civil Service employees without taking years
- Jobs to obtain after your “four/five and dive” career aspirations

[Vimix22]

And WIC's response...... 

Weapons School Graduates- 
I’ve become aware that Air Force Material Command (AFMC) has published an article regarding a future Acquisitions Weapons School. Unfortunately, this article was not coordinated with The United States Air Force Weapons School. AFI 11-415 clearly details the requirements and rigor required to establish a Weapons Instructor Course. Rest assured, that if the Acquisition’s community wants to establish a Weapons School, they will be held to the same standards as all other WICs.
-Col Steve Behmer,
Commandant

 

- Source, USAF Weapons School Official Facebook Page.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Vimix22
LInk bad