What's wrong with the Air Force?

[gearhog]

10 hours ago, youdontknowthis said:

If anybody wants a synopsis of Maj Gen Wills briefing today at Vance....

- He said if someone wants to get out that they should and he’s fine with that and wouldn’t try to get them to stay. Basically stating what’s done is done and not seeing if anything could be done to keep them in.
.

What does this tell us about the state of the Air Force?  The problems are becoming so large and unmanageable that the only way for leadership to cope is to become apathetic toward them. Apathy allows you to treat everyone like a Harbor Freight tool that’s cheaper to replace than fix or maintain. He’s not the only one, I’m seeing the shrugs from leadership more often and it’s concerning.  In fairness, these guys are human, too and are fighting a losing battle against a massively complex, out-of-control bureaucracy. I don’t believe they’re evil or malicious, just susceptible to the same feelings of resignation we are when we decide to punch. I bet they have these same conversations about their own leadership, all the way up.

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, Bender said:

 

Board it...in terms of the UPT IP discussion, I think that is a valid position. Could address some of the issues that have been raised I would think.

 

That said, I don’t think that’s what you meant...

 

When I had a wheel, my spreadsheet was massive with objective and subjective metrics ranked just how I saw them and walked into a room of utter nonsense with a list. Now, that said...so much was still subjective...

 

How do you suggest we measure that Capt A flys the plane better than Maj B, assuming they both fly the same plane at the same time in the same unit?

 

Again, just asking for a friend,

~Bendy

 

I don't have all the answers, I've never taught UPT.  But I'd guess many of the same metrics that make a good USAFA, OTS or ROTC instructor make a good UPT instructor as well.  It doesn't have to be a 100% solution, and it doesn't have to be a competitive board.  You just need a way to screen out the people who shouldn't be there.  Getting through that board wouldn't guarantee an assignment... It would just open the possibility.

Edited August 17, 2019 by pawnman

[Jetpilot]

Isn't this entire problem a result of our systemic "can't say no" leadership culture?   A commander receives a certain "bill" for assignments and he only has X amount of pilots from which to choose.  Priority will be given to the top flyers in the squad, both to protect their careers and to ensure the health of that individual community.  Then, in order not to look bad, gives the UPT assignments to those who are left, qualifications be damned.

This problem is only further complicated by the pilot shortage, which gives the commander even fewer options of who to send to a particular assignment resulting in a greater possibility of someone being given an assignment to which they are unqualified.

IDK, but maybe the cancellation of auto-waivers might just shed some reality on the system.  If SQ/CCs won't say "no" then this will certainly produce the same effect.

  It would be nice to fix something before it breaks, but hey, we fly to failure in this org.

[SFG]

22 minutes ago, Jetpilot said:

Isn't this entire problem a result of our systemic "can't say no" leadership culture?

12 hours ago, youdontknowthis said:

- He acted as if he had never heard of considering pro pay for pilots., when compared to doctors and how they get paid. He half serious asked how many of us new how to perform medical procedures as if they are on another level. I wanted to ask how many of them know how to fly but I’ll admit I don’t have the stones to do something like that.

- He said that $35k was really good for the bonus.

- He said they couldn’t compete with airlines. (I don’t disagree but they could at least try... somewhat)

- He said if someone wants to get out that they should and he’s fine with that and wouldn’t try to get them to stay. Basically stating what’s done is done and not seeing if anything could be done to keep them in.

- He said the way they can make things better is to get rid of the queepy stuff and gave an example of how many regs have been gotten rid of.
 

This, is the problem.

 

[jazzdude]

We can produce all the pilots in the world but if we don’t have any older/experienced guys around, we can never produce the the seasoned ACs/Flight Leads/IPs that the Air Force needs.

Sure we can. Only problem is it'll probably cost lives and airframes as we re-learn lessons learned the hard way

[Hermey]

13 hours ago, youdontknowthis said:

- He said if someone wants to get out that they should and he’s fine with that and wouldn’t try to get them to stay. Basically stating what’s done is done and not seeing if anything could be done to keep them in.
 

Leadership gives up and everyone bails. This is where UPT tutoring comes in. Those guys are gonna be millionaires!

[xaarman]

I've posted this before and I'll post it here again. It's satire, but it's true:

https://www.duffelblog.com/2015/04/jcs-dont-care-youre-resigning/

 

The system is what the system is. Fighting it is like getting mad at the ocean for having waves. 

 

FWIW, I worked one, two leg overnight sitting reserve at my house so far this month. And I make about what a Lt Col makes in my second year at a legacy with the (currently) worst contract. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by xaarman

[Danger41]

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

[BroncoEN]

6 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

I’m not sure we need to cross this bridge anymore, sadly.  The ACRTF removed the ‘crisis’... retention initiatives have all but disappeared...as the COA is to now outgrow the problem...

hence bitching is literally all we got left? Hard to discuss thoughts and actions to show they ‘care,’ when it’ll fall on deaf ears. 

[brabus]

25 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

1. Start saying no to dumb shit that doesn’t enhance the flying mission or breaks the squadron either personnel and/or materiel wise.

2. COCOMS need to be told go fuck themselves by their air counterparts when they ask for unnecessary stuff/people.

3. Every “good idea” from a shoe that takes time away from my day to do my primary job and does nothing to further the mission needs to be smashed before wing standup even ends.

4. Nobody is equal; be unapologetic about aircrew being more important to the mission than finance (doesn’t mean they’re not an important part, but the rack and stack of priority jobs to the mission is clear). Just because Amn snuffy is excited to go TDY for 2 months because he hasn’t been in years, doesn’t mean I should be, seeing as I’ve already been TDY 6 months so far this year. Shitty leadership sweeps that under the rug and placates to butt hurt snuffy when he laments pilots being prima donnas because they want to do 2 week swap outs and he doesn’t get to. Good leadership says “STFU and color snuffy” and lets pilots do the swap outs.

5. Fight for every possible way to reward people and increase QOL. Example: Shitty leadership could easily give bonuses, but personally decide not to because of some twisted personal view. If it’s legal, do it, no questions asked! Example: shitty leadership who pushes people to work arbitrary 12-14 hr days instead of saying “go home as soon as your day’s work is done.”

I could go on, but what all of these things have in common is showing value to your people and their mission. Workers who feel valued (intrinsically or monetarily) and feel unrestricted in accomplishing their mission will have far higher job satisfaction. Here’s why this won’t happen in the AF - any leader who takes all this to heart will be fired tomorrow and replaced by a dickless yes man. The AF doesn’t want solutions or men with change on their mind, they want a carbon copy of the same dipshits who have been running the ship into the rocks for decades. Change is bad, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

[magnetfreezer]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

2. COCOMS need to be told go fuck themselves by their air counterparts when they ask for unnecessary stuff/people.

 

Agreed... reworking of Goldwater-Nichols to put force providers on parity with COCOMs would be good. AFCongressman still lurking around this board?

[Merle Dixon]

19 hours ago, youdontknowthis said:

- He acted as if he had never heard of considering pro pay for pilots., when compared to doctors and how they get paid. He half serious asked how many of us new how to perform medical procedures as if they are on another level. I wanted to ask how many of them know how to fly but I’ll admit I don’t have the stones to do something like that. 

- He said that $35k was really good for the bonus.
 

How many doctors have 4 to 10 million dollars in training costs? Zero. He is an idiot.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2400/RR2415/RAND_RR2415.pdf

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Merle Dixon

[uhhello]

19 hours ago, youdontknowthis said:

- He said the way they can make things better is to get rid of the queepy stuff and gave an example of how many regs have been gotten rid of.


 

Have they?  I know they renamed a bunch to AFMANs.  Nobody has been able to give me a straight answer as to what that changes.

[BashiChuni]

4 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

big.

dick.

energy.

[ThreeHoler]

Renaming changes nothing. Both are mandatory compliance. What does change is the elimination of rules from [some] of those pubs.


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[viper154]

1 hour ago, ThreeHoler said:

Renaming changes nothing. Both are mandatory compliance. What does change is the elimination of rules from [some] of those pubs.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

I’ve noticed almost 0 difference in my day to day operations/flying. Honestly the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is not confirming my RNAV headings/courses in my GPS with my plate. Maybe I was just already ignoring all the stupid shit they “got rid of”. 

Oh, I now have additional guidance about having to have  flight gloves. 

 

[SFG]

6 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I bitch as much as the next guy, but what would be a good thing for leadership to do to show they “care”? Not trolling, I’d love to hear some actual suggestions other than (my standard  game plan) just complaining. 

I bring this up because someone asked me this yesterday as I was holding court and bitching about this and I didn’t have an answer.

Say, “We care if you leave. We don’t want you to. And, we’re going to fight to keep you. We’re on the Hill right now fighting for you.”

[brabus]

22 minutes ago, K_O said:

Say, “We care if you leave. We don’t want you to. And, we’re going to fight to keep you. We’re on the Hill right now fighting for you.”

Had an OG say pretty much that, ask me what he could do to keep me, offered up good ideas, etc. I appreciated him truly valuing my contribution and trying in earnest to make things different so I’d stay. If there were more leaders like him, we wouldn’t have half these issues. So far he hasn’t been fired as a wing/cc, so maybe there’s some hope. 

[Bender]

I’ve noticed almost 0 difference in my day to day operations/flying. Honestly the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is not confirming my RNAV headings/courses in my GPS with my plate. Maybe I was just already ignoring all the stupid shit they “got rid of”. 
Oh, I now have additional guidance about having to have  flight gloves. 
 

You should probably still QC that...they couldn’t make you before, can’t make you now. Hopefully you never run into a database error or something.

I helped with the C-5 CNS/ATM stuff and I was a little surprised by the chain of custody issues with those databases. I suppose it’s fair to acknowledge I have little trust/faith in people I don’t know (or in general really) as it is.

I’ll always check that shit whether it’s required or not. Is this from the new 217? I’ve yet to even read that thing.

~Bendy

[Snuggie]

On 8/16/2019 at 6:38 PM, youdontknowthis said:

- He said if someone wants to get out that they should and he’s fine with that and wouldn’t try to get them to stay. Basically stating what’s done is done and not seeing if anything could be done to keep them in..

Had my OG/CC tell me a version of that when I told him my stay/go decision criteria. I was willing to be convinced to stay in but I knew if I signed on for one more assignment I was signing up for 3 moves and a 365. I just couldn't put my family through that. 

[viper154]

18 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

You should probably still QC that...they couldn’t make you before, can’t make you now. Hopefully you never run into a database error or something.

I helped with the C-5 CNS/ATM stuff and I was a little surprised by the chain of custody issues with those databases. I suppose it’s fair to acknowledge I have little trust/faith in people I don’t know (or in general really) as it is.

I’ll always check that shit whether it’s required or not. Is this from the new 217? I’ve yet to even read that thing.

~Bendy

 

217 v1/2/3 are now AFMAN 217. All one volume. The old guidance required you to verify the course and distance between your points for a RNAV.  That verbiage was removed. NVG stuff got moved somewhere, some other minor changes. 

Point being, the bobs are saying “look, we eliminated a bunch of pubs and rules!” When in reality they just combined some pubs and reduced redundancies. All the rules are still there. 

[SuperWSO]

7 hours ago, brabus said:

4. Nobody is equal; be unapologetic about aircrew being more important to the mission than finance (doesn’t mean they’re not an important part, but the rack and stack of priority jobs to the mission is clear).

 ....placates to butt hurt snuffy when he laments pilots being prima donnas .

....I could go on, but what all of these things have in common is showing value to your people and their mission.

 

Am I the only one that sees a disconnect? I’ve been aircrew, then Intel, and now Cyber, so I get both sides.

If you fix, load, AND fly the jet, then you truly are worth more than everybody else.   But keep in mind that Snuffy May have spent his shift getting your jet code 1.  

You end by saying that leadership needs to value your people and their mission. That applies to non bag wearers too.

i know who the audience is here but you guys occasionally act like you’re singing “Cus I’m a Pilot” by Dos Gringos And taking it seriously.

standing by for return fire...

[Bender]

217 v1/2/3 are now AFMAN 217. All one volume. The old guidance required you to verify the course and distance between your points for a RNAV.  That verbiage was removed. NVG stuff got moved somewhere, some other minor changes. 
Point being, the bobs are saying “look, we eliminated a bunch of pubs and rules!” When in reality they just combined some pubs and reduced redundancies. All the rules are still there. 

I was tracking on the consolidation. I certainly hope we aren’t including that effort into the “reduction of queep” effort. If Instrument Flight Rules were in the target of “queep”, we are worse off than I thought!

~Bendy

[xaarman]

Honestly, if you’re still in beyond your initial commitment, that’s on you. By the Major point, you know the rules and requirements of the game. 

 

Dont stay with a girl hoping she’ll change. Nothing different here either. 

[Majestik Møøse]

IDGAF if Maj Gen Wills “cares” about anything or not. He’s got a job to do, and it’s extremely disappointing that he doesn’t grasp the concept of increased retention pay being cheaper than the expense of replacing experienced guys. He also thinks he can’t afford to compete with the airlines, which is a foolish take on the problem. The truth is that he’s spending billions to train the airlines pilots for them.