What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Sua Sponte]

21 minutes ago, Prosuper said:

My NCOA was in Lackland, had to go just after week being home from Saudi, it was stupid easy and a 6 week vacation down in San Antonio. Wasn't enlisted Jesus a PME instructor? I wonder how many E's hide out in AETC not counting TI's, would never want that job. 

I went to Lackland too. When I went back for NCOA I saw two TIs who were still there from when I was in BMT, nine years later.

[Bode]

Enlisted PME is garbage. A bunch of people whining about that one shitty supervisor they had. If you’re a TSgt and still don’t have a clue how to supervise someone or give a briefing , find a new line of work. A lot of that is related to the instructors that have lost touch with the real USAF hiding out in PME world for eons, though I heard it’s harder now to do that. The Commandant of the NCOA I went to had been a PME instructor for 15 years. 

I taught ALS about a dozen years ago. Between OTS, ASBC, and SOS I have seen quite a bit of the curriculum regurgitated through the schools was what we taught at ALS to include some of the case studies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brwwg&b]

AF Mortuary Affairs Patch

Since it's been making the different group facebook pages this week...the fact this patch still exists as is, is appalling

Edited August 17, 2020 by brwwg&b
add hyperlink

[arg]

22 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Enlisted PME is garbage. A bunch of people whining about that one shitty supervisor they had. If you’re a TSgt and still don’t have a clue how to supervise someone or give a briefing , find a new line of work. A lot of that is related to the instructors that have lost touch with the real USAF hiding out in PME world for eons, though I heard it’s harder now to do that. The Commandant of the NCOA I went to had been a PME instructor for 15 years. 

I did NCOA at Tyndall. Hated it. A bunch of of guys that were out of touch telling me how the real Air Force works. I told them this was Red Flag for shoe clerks(a quote I stole from a crusty Ltc about SOS back in the 80s). I wasn't voted class president. 

[jrizzell]

AF Mortuary Affairs Patch
Since it's been making the different group facebook pages this week...the fact this patch still exists as is, is appalling

What’s wrong with this patch...not a Facebook user

[Tank]

5 minutes ago, jrizzell said:

What’s wrong with this patch...not a Facebook user

 

[ThreeHoler]

Probably the formation of Flankers at the top.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[SurelySerious]

14N vis recce shenanigans

 

*super angry that a 14N can’t tell a USAF single engine from Russian twin-engine*

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by SurelySerious
Trying to rescind a quoted excerpt, and deleted whole post. Stand by righteous indignation about simple vis recce. Those responsible for rescinding have been sacked.

[Hacker]

Here's an email that was previously sent back in January to a number of different recipients, both at Dover, the AF Historian and heraldry folks, as well as CSAF.

Apparently none of those folks are concerned about the symbolism of Flankers flying over our military dead and our folded flag enough to fix it.

 

 

 

[Hacker]

Plus, there's this great vis-recce powerpoint making the rounds.

pa_vis_recce-2.pptx

[Sprkt69]

14 hours ago, brwwg&b said:

AF Mortuary Affairs Patch

Since it's been making the different group facebook pages this week...the fact this patch still exists as is, is appalling

According to Mort Affairs and PA, that is just your privilege showing

[brickhistory]

*Cliff Claven voice to ON:

 

As a former reserve USAF historian, official unit emblems/patches cannot display specific MWS (there are historical, and approved exceptions from WWI/WWII).

The no specific aircraft rule is why we have the goofy triangular thingie on various badges, i.e., ABM badge and wings, et al, and on various squadron patches.

Most likely, this isn't/wasn't designed with specific silhouttes of a Flanker, just either a bad drawing sent to the manufacturer by the unit originator and/or a bad production of said design.

 

Is this really what we have to worry about today in "What's wrong with the Air Force?"

[SurelySerious]

I’d say it just adds to the list. Some Lt Gen just sent me another survey to fill out; I love more material. 
 

I actually think the cultural “only pilots need to know if that’s a Russian airplane” is equally disturbing.

[Prosuper]

1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

I’d say it just adds to the list. Some Lt Gen just sent me another survey to fill out; I love more material. 
 

I actually think the cultural “only pilots need to know if that’s a Russian airplane” is equally disturbing.

True story, I'm at OAMS and I have a new guy I send out to C-5 to ask a pilot if everything is good and if they will be leaving on time. He went out to a IL-76 . Yes knowing the correct MDS is important, you can't park 4 KC-10s in the same space as 4 KC-135's.  

[Scooter14]

True story, I'm at OAMS and I have a new guy I send out to C-5 to ask a pilot if everything is good and if they will be leaving on time. He went out to a IL-76 .

Uh, Prosuper, I uh, talked to the pilot.

He was smoking, he was coughing, he didn’t smell very good and he was wearing a tight blue flight suit. He didn’t speak much English but I think he said they would be leaving on time.

[Hacker]

5 hours ago, brickhistory said:

Most likely, this isn't/wasn't designed with specific silhouttes of a Flanker, just either a bad drawing sent to the manufacturer by the unit originator and/or a bad production of said design.

Is this really what we have to worry about today in "What's wrong with the Air Force?"

But it *is* a specific aircraft silhouette -- a Flanker -- and even if it weren't the front-line fighter of our peer-state enemies, it would be in violation of the "rule" in that it *does* depict a specific airframe.  It should have never made it past the initial design review for that to begin with.

Of course it wasn't intentional, but the fact that the mistake made it through multiple levels of review is what is disturbing.  Even worse, the apathy shown toward fixing the error (and, bizarrely, the doubling down on the mistake and digging in of heels to *not* fix it) is a *real* cultural problem, yes.

In a culture that is steeped in symbolism -- as in, nearly everything the military does has symbolic meaning -- having an organizational emblem with Flankers overflying the graves of dead American soldiers and a folded American flag is a Russian or Chinese propaganda victory if there ever was one. We should *all* find that disturbing and offensive and massively disrespectful to those who've given the ultimate sacrifice, the very people that organization purports to treat with dignity, honor, and respect.

Would you be okay if, say, the "mistake" was putting a folded Chinese flag on there instead of an American flag?  Or if a casket came back with a Liberian flag over it by accident?  Ludicrous.  I guess "excellence in all we do" is just as empty a saying as "Dignity, Honor, Respect".

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Hacker

[brickhistory]

And if it didn't have the dildo poking out the back, it'd be an F-15-ish silhoutte.(sp?)  Kinda, sorta, but generic enough.

Of course, if this was intentional, it's terrible.

I just know how government, including ours, works.  And would put money down that there's an unintentional goof in the pixels that either were sent or translated by the manufacturer (unless, of course, it was a Chinese company, then full marks to them for taking the effective shot at Uncle Sam and bad on us for not catching it before distro).

As to the rest of your comparison and asking if I'd be ok, there's an Anglo-Saxon phrase that fits.  But I don't think you really meant your question as trying to impugn my respect for our Service's fallen and our Nation's honor.

[ThreeHoler]

Should have been the triangles, triangles with the triangle notch cut out in the back, or even the ANG-style generic aircraft.


YGBSM that multiple Intel weenies can’t even deal with WEFT. We’ve been ing teaching it for decades...

[brwwg&b]

45 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

I just know how government, including ours, works.  And would put money down that there's an unintentional goof in the pixels that either were sent or translated by the manufacturer (unless, of course, it was a Chinese company, then full marks to them for taking the effective shot at Uncle Sam and bad on us for not catching it before distro).

My suspicion is it wasn't an issue on the manufacturers part. The exact silhouette shown (depending on your browser / search engine) would often be the first response on a search of "fighter jet silhouette"

The issue is laziness and a lack of effort from the Air Force Historians, Air Force Historical Research Agency, and The Institute of Heraldry. Each of which had a role in creating this propaganda...albeit, I suspect unintentionally.

As Hacker said - their defending of the patch now is the larger issue. Like whining in a debrief. There should be no tolerance for defense of such ignorance.

[Hacker]

59 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

As to the rest of your comparison and asking if I'd be ok, there's an Anglo-Saxon phrase that fits.  But I don't think you really meant your question as trying to impugn my respect for our Service's fallen and our Nation's honor.

No, it was a generic "you", not *you* specifically.  Really I meant "The AF".

This has been the organizational emblem of USAF Mortuary Affairs Operations since 2014.

Is 6 years not long enough for the AF to un-fornicate a logo? Is it incompetence or apathy?  Or worse?  Literally a symbol of "what's wrong with the Air Force."

Edited August 18, 2020 by Hacker

[Majestik Møøse]

There’s a disorder called Face Blindness that keeps people from recognizing different faces. These people (maybe including brickhistory) simply have Flanker Blindness and don’t understand why the rest of us would care.

edit: someone please post the Facebook link

Edited August 18, 2020 by Majestik Møøse

[Danger41]

Just tell mortuary affairs that you are a lesbian former Russian transgender male who came to America to transition to a dolphin and the sight of that patch triggers feelings of oppression to your gay/trans/aquatic lifestyle at the hands of the Russian patriarchy and it’ll change in about 5 minutes.

[M2]

22 hours ago, Hacker said:

Plus, there's this great vis-recce powerpoint making the rounds.

pa_vis_recce-2.pptx 2.77 MB · 60 downloads

To be fair, she get's a pass...

[17D_guy]

The train will not be derailed for the golden children!

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/08/19/inspectors-said-her-toxic-leadership-was-worst-seen-20-years-she-just-became-1-star.html?

 

Quote

Investigators interviewed more than 60 witnesses, according to the report obtained by Military.com. The inspector general substantiated three complaints made about Grant: that she created an unhealthy work environment, failed to treat people with dignity and respect, and improperly accepted a gift from a subordinate.

 

[bfargin]

"I don't challenge her intelligence. I don't challenge her vision and her direction she wants to take the wing," one person testified. "... Col. Grant has definitely made this wing a better place in terms of its warfighting capability for the joint command downrange. However, [her] leadership style has limited her ability to take the wing to where it could have been."

 

So is this posted because of the pissing and moaning of subordinates or her leadership style? They became better at their primary mission even if some feelings got hurt. I know I'm old, but that was standard ops back 30 years ago. I acknowledge that people don't have to be dicks to get the job done and there is a middle ground on holding idiots accountable and/or being a total prick vs. helping people achieve and excel through encouragement and mentorship.