What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

Okay, explain.  How do you use the ILS on an overhead?

My guess is that the overhead usually ends with a final approach phase of about a mile and 300 ft. I get that aim points are different in fast movers but if you’re not going to use the approach lighting system for awareness it makes sense to at least have the ILS dialed in. It also assists C-17 pilots in landing at the correct airport. 
 

Edit: okay, if your overhead ends at 0.5 nm and 150, yeah I get not needing the ILS.  My comments were more based on flying a night visual and not a night overhead, which I would never do. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Homestar

[Hacker]

13 hours ago, go_cubbies22 said:

I know you’re a fighter guy so you scoff at all things involved with flying an approach and landing as motherhood and admin- but look at the data; a lot of mistakes happen in those phases.

Well, aside from being a former "fighter guy" I also have spent the last 5 years wrangling #300,000 airliners around, so I'd like to think I have a little insight there as well. I took that photo I posted of a poster on the wall of where I work.

Nowhere did I say it wasn't an area where people have and do make airmanship mistakes.

I was making (theoretical) fun of a military branch, who kills people and breaks things in some of the most hazardous-to-life actions and locations in human existence, allowing the force's skills, training, and currency to degrade to a point where something as basic as a visual approach becomes "more challenging" than the mission things.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Hacker

[ThreeHoler]

I read it that way. It was funny. But also true and sad at the same time.


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[Tulsa]

I used to use the ILS/LOC/TACAN to confirm initial in low vis but VFR conditions, especially in ROK.  Hell, we used to use the CATM-9 to maintain "visual" on the lead element.  But, then again this was before datalink, TAD, Foreflight, and a HMCS.  So, have all of the tools available in your toolbox prepped, but use what is needed to make sure you have the best guidance to land safely every time.  

Edited November 15, 2020 by Tulsa

[HuggyU2]

5 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

Fun fact: the Navy flies night overheads.  

When did USAF fighter/attack quit flying night overheads?

 

[brabus]

24 minutes ago, Tulsa said:

I used to use the ILS/LOC to confirm initial in low vis but VFR conditions, especially in ROK.

If you haven’t flown TACAN initial at the Kun after flying “VMC” at Pilsung, you haven’t lived. 
 

12 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

When did USAF fighter/attack quit flying night overheads?

 

I did them in UPT and the only times after that were in combat, how’s that for some irony. 

[Buddy Spike]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

When did USAF fighter/attack quit flying night overheads?

 

I don't think we did them in the b-course and I remember guidance coming out about at least having PAPI or ILS in 2009ish.  

Did them in the Navy in the Hornet all the time.  

[17D_guy]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but it's making me want to start on my PPL.

[go_cubbies22]

2 hours ago, Hacker said:

Well, aside from being a former "fighter guy" I also have spent the last 5 years wrangling #300,000 airliners around, so I'd like to think I have a little insight there as well. I took that photo I posted of a poster on the wall of where I work.

Nowhere did I say it wasn't an area where people have and do make airmanship mistakes.

I was making (theoretical) fun of a military branch, who kills people and breaks things in some of the most hazardous-to-life actions and locations in human existence, allowing the force's skills, training, and currency to degrade to a point where something as basic as a visual approach becomes "more challenging" than the mission things.

Copy all.  My post was after a “few” beers so didn’t catch that and called you out instead, my bad. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by go_cubbies22

[HossHarris]

Re: fighters touching down short of the captains bars/glideslope ...

most fighter vol 3’s say to touch down 500-1000’ down the runway. In a 38 you can’t do that unless you’re starting your flare well short in the underrun. 
 

Runway length is almost always a factor, especially with EPs. When a few hundred feet might matter, it’s good to have the practiced ability to land on brick 1. 

[di1630]

When did USAF fighter/attack quit flying night overheads?
 

I did a lot of night overheads and 15 degree night SFO’s were standard when I was on exchange in Europe. As were night form t/o and landings.

I imagine USAF quit in the 80’s or so. Just a guess.

UPT based do night overheads to get pattern reps but the IP flies the pattern and SP gets the jet on final,


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[Sprkt69]

6 hours ago, di1630 said:

I did a lot of night overheads and 15 degree night SFO’s were standard when I was on exchange in Europe. As were night form t/o and landings.

I imagine USAF quit in the 80’s or so. Just a guess.

UPT based do night overheads to get pattern reps but the IP flies the pattern and SP gets the jet on final,


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Night overheads still alive in some parts of the USAF

[ClearedHot]

On 11/15/2020 at 12:24 PM, HuggyU2 said:

When did USAF fighter/attack quit flying night overheads?

 

Pointy nose Fighter/Attack quit long ago.  Real Attack still does them to this day.

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

Pointy nose Fighter/Attack quit long ago.  Real Attack still does them to this day.

We do not fly night overheads in the MQ-9, so I’m not quite sure what you’re referencing /sarcasm 😆

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

We do not fly night overheads in the MQ-9, so I’m not quite sure what you’re referencing /sarcasm 😆

That's because the MQ-9 fleet is not big enough to support that accident rate.

[DFNJ]

Is the night overhead not available at bases? I know at Edwards it's an option.

I take a sadistic pleasure in the look on my wingmen's faces when I brief our RTB gameplan is to come into the break as section or division at night. 

[ClearedHot]

Flying at HRT the Navy pogues from Pcola and Whiting would always trash our pattern, sometimes four or five at a time.  After the three times being told to extend my base while doing two engine training in order to accommodate a T-34, I cleaned up my Gunship and departed VFR to the west.  A few minutes later I checked in with PCola and reported initial Runway 25...it was a fucking bomb burst of white jets trying to get out of the way.  After a low approach I requested closed and the tower was fuming (do they have a SOF?)  I then requested to go tower to tower at Whiting.  They initially cleared me but the tower controller must have called Whiting and told them what I did so they told me they were "saturated and could not accommodate practice patterns." 

I got called up to the OG/CC's office the next morning and he asked what happened...apparently the Navy wasn't too happy.  I told him it was a continuing theme with them dorking up our pattern and how they ruined three consecutive two engine approaches (two engine work was challenging and you had to be low on fuel to get to the training allowed weight so you didn't get a lot of second chances).  He laughed and told me to have a great day.  I didn't see another T-34 in our pattern for two months. 

[Hacker]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Flying at HRT the Navy pogues from Pcola and Whiting would always trash our pattern, sometimes four or five at a time.  After the three times being told to extend my base while doing two engine training in order to accommodate a T-34, I cleaned up my Gunship and departed VFR to the west.  A few minutes later I checked in with PCola and reported initial Runway 25...it was a fucking bomb burst of white jets trying to get out of the way.  After a low approach I requested closed and the tower was fuming (do they have a SOF?)  I then requested to go tower to tower at Whiting.  They initially cleared me but the tower controller must have called Whiting and told them what I did so they told me they were "saturated and could not accommodate practice patterns." 

I got called up to the OG/CC's office the next morning and he asked what happened...apparently the Navy wasn't too happy.  I told him it was a continuing theme with them dorking up our pattern and how they ruined three consecutive two engine approaches (two engine work was challenging and you had to be low on fuel to get to the training allowed weight so you didn't get a lot of second chances).  He laughed and told me to have a great day.  I didn't see another T-34 in our pattern for two months. 

Awesomeness like this does not belong in the "What's wrong with the Air Force?" thread.

🥃

[bfargin]

21 minutes ago, MyCS said:

AFPC asked if I would be interested in a command post position at Al Udeid. Is this a good assignment right before you pull chocks for retirement? I plan on marrying my old lady right before the deployment. 

Does this job provide you with wheels to get around? What is the living situation like in regards to sharing room?

The only way I'd go back to that part of the world is with a fully nuke loaded B-52/B-1/B-2 but I know a couple of guys who enjoy it over there.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, MyCS said:

AFPC asked if I would be interested in a command post position at Al Udeid. Is this a good assignment right before you pull chocks for retirement? I plan on marrying my old lady right before the deployment. 

Does this job provide you with wheels to get around? What is the living situation like in regards to sharing room?

The Deid?  What's not to like?  There's a pool, the Better People Center, and steak and shrimp every Friday.

 

[pawnman]

As deployment spots go, AUAB isn't too bad aside from the brutal heat 10 months out of the year.

It's built up, housing is decent, wifi is good, pool, two theaters, large BX, several gyms, decent, if repetitive, food options.

4 six-month deployments between 2009 and 2015.  Plenty of worse places to be deployed.  Can't speak for OPSTEMPO in the command post.

Usually you can get a car for a job like you're describing.  If you're in BPC, you'll have your own room with a shared kitchen and bathroom.  Not too bad.

Edited November 25, 2020 by pawnman

[Chuck17]

8 hours ago, MyCS said:

AFPC asked if I would be interested in a command post position at Al Udeid. Is this a good assignment right before you pull chocks for retirement? I plan on marrying my old lady right before the deployment. 

Does this job provide you with wheels to get around? What is the living situation like in regards to sharing room?

AFPC asked?? ...And...”Is being a commander a good job??” (If you’re getting ready to retire, only YOU can answer if you want to go remote to the desert or go quietly into the sunset...)

What squadron at the Deid are we talking about anyway?

Okay, forgetting the bizarre nature of such questions, yes, Sq/CCs all have vehicles, and all Sq/CCs live in their own dorm room (I had two) with a bathroom, kitchenette, etc., in a Sq/CC dorm - no roommates. 

Also: booze. It helps.

Chuck

Edited November 25, 2020 by Chuck17

[pawnman]

18 minutes ago, Chuck17 said:

AFPC asked?? ...And...”Is being a commander a good job??” (If you’re getting ready to retire, only YOU can answer if you want to go remote to the desert or go quietly into the sunset...)

What squadron at the Deid are we talking about anyway?

Okay, forgetting the bizarre nature of such questions, yes, Sq/CCs all have vehicles, and all Sq/CCs live in their own dorm room (I had two) with a bathroom, kitchenette, etc., in a Sq/CC dorm - no roommates. 

Also: booze. It helps.

Chuck

"Command post".  Not "Commander".  At least, that's how I read it.

[Tonka]

9 hours ago, MyCS said:

AFPC asked if I would be interested in a command post position at Al Udeid. Is this a good assignment right before you pull chocks for retirement? I plan on marrying my old lady right before the deployment. 

Does this job provide you with wheels to get around? What is the living situation like in regards to sharing room?

There is really nothing amazing that can come out of this... You're best outcome is to break even.  I know 4 or 5 guys that have separated at 18 & 19 years because of something like this dropping in them.  Do your job, bring honor to u and the country but there comes a time to start thinking about what is best for you. Retiring is harder than it looks, trying to do it from a location where the majority of people either don't want to be there or don't want you to be there will be impossible to do right.... Trying to put together a resume, do job interviews, setup moves, etc...Just say no.

[ThreeHoler]

Newsflash: MyCS is a troll and wasting everyone’s time. Welcome back Shazam and whatever else you called yourself before.


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