What's wrong with the Air Force?

[JimNtexas]

Covid vaccines are two or three weeks away from distribution.   The economy is still strong.  There is no reason to think that private sector hiring including aviation won’t be back by mid-2021.

Edited December 2, 2020 by JimNtexas

[Darth]

I am sure in the last year the USAF has made tremendous strides in "culture" and "environment" that makes people want to stay ....

“But it also hopefully reflects a little bit of our ability to start to provide that kind of culture and environment where Airmen and families want to stay with us, and want to be part of what the mission of the United States Air Force is.”

[Magnum]

  On 12/2/2020 at 5:34 AM, JimNtexas said:

Covid vaccines are two or three weeks away from distribution.   The economy is still strong.  There is no reason to think that private sector hiring including aviation won’t be back by mid-2021.

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Biden - Harris.

[Ziplip]

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article247558165.html

Interesting article on a congressional investigation into military aviation crashes.

Summary of findings:

- Do more with less due to Continuing Resolutions and Sequestration
- Sims don’t replace hands on training
- Admin has eaten into time that should be spent on training.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guardian]

Don’t tell the UPT next people that. They only want to hear they are doing amazing contrary to the results. No wash outs in UPT next so that the program doesn’t die.

[Homestar]

  On 12/3/2020 at 3:26 PM, Guardian said:

Don’t tell the UPT next people that. They only want to hear they are doing amazing contrary to the results. No wash outs in UPT next so that the program doesn’t die.

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What’s your UPT Next involvement? Just curious because I’ve seen pilots “wash out” of PTN and just go back to UPT. 

[Guardian]

Rather not answer

[Bender]

  On 12/3/2020 at 3:26 PM, Guardian said:

Don’t tell the UPT next people that. They only want to hear they are doing amazing contrary to the results. No wash outs in UPT next so that the program doesn’t die.

No washouts is unequivocally incorrect (in any version).

As to the first sentence, probably close to true, but what results exactly do you have an issue with?

~Bendy


Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network mobile app

[Guardian]

Wasn’t saying that was true to results. Just what the mentality around the program seems to be. It’s like listening to used car salesmen

[Magnum]

  On 12/3/2020 at 1:52 PM, Ziplip said:

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article247558165.html

Interesting article on a congressional investigation into military aviation crashes.

Summary of findings:

- Do more with less due to Continuing Resolutions and Sequestration
- Sims don’t replace hands on training
- Admin has eaten into time that should be spent on training.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Funny that the congressional findings basically implicate... Congress. And who's responsible to create fixes for the congressionally created problems? Not sure, but I am pretty sure it won't be congress. 

I bet the next budget post Trillions $$ spending on COVID will fix the root cause.

[Homestar]

  On 12/3/2020 at 10:46 PM, Guardian said:

Rather not answer

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Because you’re close to the program and have some doubts or because you’re not and don’t have a clue?

[FLEA]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/12/02/after-hitting-record-retention-numbers-air-force-may-push-some-troops-toward-reserves.html

"Regarding pilots, Kelly said the service is "happily manned" and almost overmanned in field-grade officers, or O-4s to O-6s, but undermanned in the ranks of second lieutenant through captain.

That "has a lot to do with our ability to actually produce and deliver more pilots," he said."

 

WTF? 

[jazzdude]

  On 12/4/2020 at 9:11 AM, FLEA said:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/12/02/after-hitting-record-retention-numbers-air-force-may-push-some-troops-toward-reserves.html
"Regarding pilots, Kelly said the service is "happily manned" and almost overmanned in field-grade officers, or O-4s to O-6s, but undermanned in the ranks of second lieutenant through captain.

That "has a lot to do with our ability to actually produce and deliver more pilots," he said."

 

WTF? 

Wow. Looks like the rated community is going to lose it's voice in the staffs (at least at the AO level), and staffs are going to continue to push their work down to the line units, both of which will just make life harder for the line flyer.

[FLEA]

  On 12/4/2020 at 11:54 AM, jazzdude said:

 

 

Wow. Looks like the rated community is going to lose it's voice in the staffs (at least at the AO level), and staffs are going to continue to push their work down to the line units, both of which will just make life harder for the line flyer.

 

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Can Kelly explain then all those pilots that go out as Captains? Cause I'm not seeing them? We sure as hell didn't RIF any during sequestration (they were too young then). So the only way he could have come to this position is to conclude that the AF never produced enough pilots.....

[Sua Sponte]

  On 12/4/2020 at 1:50 AM, Guardian said:

Wasn’t saying that was true to results. Just what the mentality around the program seems to be. It’s like listening to used car salesmen

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[hindsight2020]

FY 18 SUPT numbers were closer to 150. So even SUPT has not been getting 2-hondo for a while now.

[17D_guy]

  On 12/8/2020 at 11:09 PM, MyCS said:

https://warontherocks.com/2020/12/instructors-wanted-apply-within-why-the-air-force-is-failing-to-change-its-culture-and-what-to-do-about-it/

Nobody wants to go to Maxwell. Duh

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Had a buddy that did a gig there as SOS instructor.  Loved it.  However, you're basically forgotten from your AFSC.  Depending on the O6's that are coming around some even viewed it as "ditching the career field."  You're busy just instructing, while everyone else is "leading."

If you're career...why would you ever do that.  Lets look at the bios of a statistically significant sampling of O6's and 1-stars...how many have PME instructor as a Capt on there?

That said, Maxwell in 2017 was actually really nice.  Hard to believe.

Article pushes out some interesting ideas.  It would make SOS more like ALS, which it basically is now.  To claim the instruction there gets down into doctrine, strategy, or anything of lasting value is a lie.  Other service school are much longer, and we just don't instruct the same way.

Edited December 9, 2020 by 17D_guy

[StoleIt]

  On 12/8/2020 at 11:09 PM, MyCS said:

https://warontherocks.com/2020/12/instructors-wanted-apply-within-why-the-air-force-is-failing-to-change-its-culture-and-what-to-do-about-it/

Nobody wants to go to Maxwell. Duh

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  Quote

More abstractly and perhaps more importantly, these instructors also educate these officers in the art and science of future wars, which will likely be high-technology fights with China and Russia. The academic instructor’s job is vital — Secretary of Defense Mark Esper put the onus on the Air Force (and Space Force) to take the lead in preparing officers for future wars.

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Yea...unless SOS changed DRASTICALLY since I attended...there was absolutely no war fighting value in the curriculum there. Sure, we played the worlds shittiest video game for a couple classes...but at no time do I recall any art, science, or war talk.

I guess Project X was still fun to do for a THIRD time. And drinking with classmates was good bonding. But overall...what a waste of time.

[dream big]

  On 12/9/2020 at 4:43 AM, StoleIt said:

Yea...unless SOS changed DRASTICALLY since I attended...there was absolutely no war fighting value in the curriculum there. Sure, we played the worlds shittiest video game for a couple classes...but at no time do I recall any art, science, or war talk.

I guess Project X was still fun to do for a THIRD time. And drinking with classmates was good bonding. But overall...what a waste of time.

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They could get rid of SOS and the service’s capabilities wouldn’t change nor would anyone worth their salt blink an eye.  The only positive things I hear about it are trivia night downtown, stellar BBQ and drinking games, all of which I can do at my Squadron bar anytime.  SOS DG was also a self licking ice cream cone of HPO production, many of whom didn’t have to do jack all to remain on said golden path. If they actually want to teach doctrine, keep it virtual with some reading material and essays.  There were some good lessons like the promotion board exercise (which made many of us even more jaded when some of the nonners ranked the CGOC president who hooked numerous checkrides over the Weapons Officer.)  

[pawnman]

  On 12/9/2020 at 2:36 AM, 17D_guy said:

Had a buddy that did a gig there as SOS instructor.  Loved it.  However, you're basically forgotten from your AFSC.  Depending on the O6's that are coming around some even viewed it as "ditching the career field."  You're busy just instructing, while everyone else is "leading."

If you're career...why would you ever do that.  Lets look at the bios of a statistically significant sampling of O6's and 1-stars...how many have PME instructor as a Capt on there?

That said, Maxwell in 2017 was actually really nice.  Hard to believe.

Article pushes out some interesting ideas.  It would make SOS more like ALS, which it basically is now.  To claim the instruction there gets down into doctrine, strategy, or anything of lasting value is a lie.  Other service school are much longer, and we just don't instruct the same way.

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Ironic, given the push by the last CSAF and SECAF to give additional consideration to people with "instructor" duty in their careers.

Honestly, in my community...the less time you spent in the jet, the better off you were for promotion and leadership opportunities.  It was never the guy who stayed in the jet, did 3-4 deployments, and have 4000 hours that was SQ/CC...it was the shiny penny who did one deployment back in '08, then bounced from school to staff to aide to staff before coming back as a squadron commander with 100 combat hours and half the flight hours of the youngest instructor in the squadron.  

[daynightindicator]

  On 12/9/2020 at 2:42 PM, pawnman said:

Honestly, in my community...the less time you spent in the jet, the better off you were for promotion and leadership opportunities.  It was never the guy who stayed in the jet, did 3-4 deployments, and have 4000 hours that was SQ/CC...it was the shiny penny who did one deployment back in '08, then bounced from school to staff to aide to staff before coming back as a squadron commander with 100 combat hours and half the flight hours of the youngest instructor in the squadron.  

That’s not an accurate statement Pawnman. Every community pushes their shiny pennies up the ladder quickly (hence the push for removal of BTZ to try and slow things down so our O-6s stop getting crushed by their sister service peers on joint staffs) and we all have anecdotal examples of those folks.

The majority of SQ/CCs in the Bone right now are on time dudes with anywhere from 3-6 combat deployments, no aide jobs, etc. I would also guess most have over 2500 hours in the jet.

[pbar]

  On 12/9/2020 at 5:06 AM, dream big said:

They could get rid of SOS and the service’s capabilities wouldn’t change nor would anyone worth their salt blink an eye.  The only positive things I hear about it are trivia night downtown, stellar BBQ and drinking games, all of which I can do at my Squadron bar anytime.  SOS DG was also a self licking ice cream cone of HPO production, many of whom didn’t have to do jack all to remain on said golden path. If they actually want to teach doctrine, keep it virtual with some reading material and essays.  There were some good lessons like the promotion board exercise (which made many of us even more jaded when some of the nonners ranked the CGOC president who hooked numerous checkrides over the Weapons Officer.)  

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We'd probably be better off having everyone get a PMI Project Management Professional (PMP) certification instead of SOS.  That was more useful than anything I learned at SOS....

[BeefBears]

  On 12/8/2020 at 11:09 PM, MyCS said:

https://warontherocks.com/2020/12/instructors-wanted-apply-within-why-the-air-force-is-failing-to-change-its-culture-and-what-to-do-about-it/

Nobody wants to go to Maxwell. Duh

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It doesn't stop at SOS. The FTU is still viewed as a career killer in most communities. At least in AFSOC, the FTU, along with the reserve squadron (for unpromotable majors) and the new training wing, are still perceived as places for bottom tier instructors. Despite all the talk of enhancing the prestige of formal instructor positions, nothing has changed. SQ/CCs still use the FTU as an easy button for problem children and, as a result, Initial Qual students are still showing up to ops squadrons unprepared.

This being said, I'm not sure its worth sending away our best flying instructors to work in a formal training unit as its usually more beneficial to have them running tactics discussions in the ops units, as deployed mission commanders, etc. 

[jazzdude]

  On 12/10/2020 at 1:17 AM, BeefBears said:

This being said, I'm not sure its worth sending away our best flying instructors to work in a formal training unit as its usually more beneficial to have them running tactics discussions in the ops units, as deployed mission commanders, etc. 

The good in that is those tactically minded instructors can instill that sense of mission and tactics early in a pilot's development, and build a solid foundation for the ops units later down the road.

Or they can send the bottom folks to the FTUs, and then turn around and complain about the quality of the new pilot and how the FTU sucks at producing a tactically minded pilot.

[BeefBears]

  On 12/10/2020 at 1:53 AM, jazzdude said:

 

 

The good in that is those tactically minded instructors can instill that sense of mission and tactics early in a pilot's development, and build a solid foundation for the ops units later down the road.

Or they can send the bottom folks to the FTUs, and then turn around and complain about the quality of the new pilot and how the FTU sucks at producing a tactically minded pilot.

 

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Its an issue with priority. The top go to staff, the squadrons hold onto the leftover talent tightly, and what's left for the FTU?

I dont think any amount of messaging will fix perceptions. Ask most instructors if they enjoy instructing new students and they'll say "yes" but you ask them if they want to go to the FTU and its normally a resounding "no."