What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Boomer6]

Ppl believe what they want to believe. These days that tends to fall in line with their political affiliation. However, if you’re a college educated individual and you think the medical community has a firm grasp on exactly what long lasting side effects may or may not occur from a vaccine developed in 18 months, then I’d say you’re either extremely naive, don’t have a background in any kind of science, or haven’t seen a commercial for a drug that’s been out for 10 years that they’re still finding causes certain side effects. If your counter is, “well most side effects occur in the first X months.” Scoff. Its a risk analysis based on time and the number of ppl in the sample size, and currently from my perspective the time aspect is a significant factor.

That aside, if the military wants me to get vaxxed, then make it mandatory and back that up with medical care for any long laying side effects. Prior to that don’t treat individuals as a pariah for waiting until the EUA is rescinded (like individuals on this board that are involved in ROTC..). The amount of ppl I saw get absolutely screwed by leadership for holding out while it was under EUA or that submitted exemptions is abhorrent. In 10 years if there are side effects for ppl that took the vax under EUA do you trust the DoD or the VA to take care of you, or do you expect them to show you the EUA fine print.

This pandemic has revealed the true colors of a shockingly large number of individuals in positions of authority in the DoD. Turns out if you punish ppl for not violating any regs they lose all respect for you and wouldn’t follow you into warm water.

[BashiChuni]

56 minutes ago, Pooter said:

But the fun part is now we all have the benefit of hindsight 20/20. We now know covid isn't particularly dangerous for unvaxxed healthy young people and we also know the vaxxed aren't dying in droves from some hypothetical late-onset side effect.  Turns out neither were that dangerous.

 

oh no you don't...we KNEW pretty early on that covid was statistically a non event for young, healthy people. and turns out Fauci and his buddies at Pfizer KNEW it didn't prevent the spread...we were told straight up lies and coerced into taking a shot that provides zero protection and is very harmful...latest numbers i heard were 1 in 800 have side effects. that is a very high number and this shot should NEVER have been MANDATED.

so don't give me this 20/20 bullshit....the warnings were being issued very early on but FUCKING CENSORED

[HuggyU2]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:53 PM, BashiChuni said:

... coerced into taking a shot

That's putting it lightly.  

[tac airlifter]

The Covid zealots are trying to pretend they weren’t total fucking psycho’s forcing harmful poison on us all.  Revisionist history will not work.  

[dream big]

https://dailycaller.com/2023/05/08/air-force-social-experiment-diversity-minority-discrimination/?fbclid=IwAR2LXwboQEr0kVJUllb6NT15t0X280vGW5rApZBSIWoHrCnfHoIZKZftqAA
 

As if Laughlin hasn’t been in enough controversy. 

[WheelsOff]

5 hours ago, dream big said:

https://dailycaller.com/2023/05/08/air-force-social-experiment-diversity-minority-discrimination/?fbclid=IwAR2LXwboQEr0kVJUllb6NT15t0X280vGW5rApZBSIWoHrCnfHoIZKZftqAA
 

As if Laughlin hasn’t been in enough controversy. 

Ah. More of Wills’ handiwork coming to light. Dude was a cancer to the UPT enterprise. So glad he’s gone!

Edited May 9, 2023 by WheelsOff

[Shakermaker]

51 minutes ago, WheelsOff said:

Ah. More of Wills’ handiwork coming to light. Dude was a cancer to the UPT enterprise. So glad he’s gone!

I have the memo signed by him somewhere in my Outlook that dictated minimum diversity numbers for each class that forced the registrar and myself to re-flow every class to meet the new standard.  Ironically all of the classes at the end of that FY were all white males because we didn't have anyone else left.

[WheelsOff]

58 minutes ago, Shakermaker said:

I have the memo signed by him somewhere in my Outlook that dictated minimum diversity numbers for each class that forced the registrar and myself to re-flow every class to meet the new standard.  Ironically all of the classes at the end of that FY were all white males because we didn't have anyone else left.

It’s disheartening to watch the minions take it in the rear all because some CC wants to advance the DoD’s latest flavor of the day agenda in hopes that it will advance their career; only to leave behind a swath of destruction that leaves the boys to pick up the broken pieces when they finally leave (while said CC skates into retirement and probably some cush contract job). 

…the story of the modern day military in a nutshell. 

[Clark Griswold]

It’s disheartening to watch the minions take it in the rear all because some CC wants to advance the DoD’s latest flavor of the day agenda in hopes that it will advance their career; only to leave behind a swath of destruction that leaves the boys to pick up the broken pieces when they finally leave (while said CC skates into retirement and probably some cush contract job). 

…the story of the modern day military in a nutshell. 

Yeah but cast no aspersions on them as it’s one thing to charge ahead as part of movement versus the lone guy who goes over the top gets taken out by the machine while his compatriots are still in the trenches waiting for the signal to all go over the top
Everything is all or nothing with the military and until there is a reasonable chance of change happening or a reversion to logic and sanity, biding your time but minimally complying with insane / immoral / questionably legal policies that the AF leadership is pushing is a viable morally acceptable COA
I’m getting short, I’ve seen cycles of moral panic and group think idiocy before, they eventually pass but leave a residue of cynicism, I just want those who are still in and pursuing a full career active or ARC to know this shit comes and goes and know that like an F-4 with a shit ton of thrust behind it it will fly, as long as Congress gives a shit ton of money the AF will continue to fly despite some of its leaders


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WheelsOff]

3 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Everything is all or nothing with the military and until there is a reasonable chance of change happening or a reversion to logic and sanity, biding your time but minimally complying with insane / immoral / questionably legal policies that the AF leadership is pushing is a viable morally acceptable COA
 

 

I get what you’re saying, but this is why we’ll never have nice things. 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by WheelsOff

[Clark Griswold]

 
I get what you’re saying, but this is why we’ll never have nice things. 
 

Maybe but I think we who don’t like this or similar policies need not give up either our careers or beliefs but look for new avenues of attack (legal, ethical and metaphorically speaking)

That’s not an advocacy for anything UCMJ punishable but to use the tools available

What’s necessary is solidarity, transparency, communication and mutual support - yeah it sounds like a union and I’m not sure that’s it but a voluntary association that will support those who step forward to say non hoc porcus.
The AFA could be tasked with this mission if it could have a level of support / agreement from its members on what would constitute reasons to support current Airmen taking actions to protest / challenge AF policies that this part of the AFA would stand behind the member to prevent illegal or unfair retaliation.
Media coverage / information, legal support and career support could be provided to put a net underneath those taking a risk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HuggyU2]

Looks like the 47 OG/CC referenced in the letter (Col Bingham) was brand new in the job, and is now the 6th ARW/CC at MacDill.

What's the feeling on him from those that know him?

[Polar Bear]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:53 PM, BashiChuni said:

oh no you don't...we KNEW pretty early on that covid was statistically a non event for young, healthy people. and turns out Fauci and his buddies at Pfizer KNEW it didn't prevent the spread...we were told straight up lies and coerced into taking a shot that provides zero protection and is very harmful...latest numbers i heard were 1 in 800 have side effects. that is a very high number and this shot should NEVER have been MANDATED.

so don't give me this 20/20 bullshit....the warnings were being issued very early on but ING CENSORED

Can you please provide your source on this?

[Pooter]

17 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Can you please provide your source on this?

I was going to ask the same thing but it's kinda not worth engaging.  Claiming it provides "zero protection" while being "very harmful" based on a number "he heard" is the kind of quality, evidence-based reasoning that lets me know it's probably time to put the phone down for the night. 
 

Funny part is my point has never been about the jab itself. It's always been about having the awareness to know what you signed up for and go in eyes wide open. 
 

I'm a big believer in worrying about the biggest and closest alligators to the boat, which, in terms of service member health risks, are:

1) long term ailments from on-the-job hazards we've completed normalized

2) dying in some interventionist boondoggle halfway round the world

...

...

...

...

67) drowning in Tumon bay

68) actual alligators

69) covid vaccine side effects

Which is why this whole outrage seems a little manufactured, out of proportion, and strangely coincident with a red-to-blue presidential admin turnover. 

[bfargin]

1 hour ago, Polar Bear said:

Can you please provide your source on this?

Have you been asleep for the past 2.5 years? 

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

I was going to ask the same thing but it's kinda not worth engaging.  Claiming it provides "zero protection" while being "very harmful" based on a number "he heard" is the kind of quality, evidence-based reasoning that lets me know it's probably time to put the phone down for the night. 
 

Funny part is my point has never been about the jab itself. It's always been about having the awareness to know what you signed up for and go in eyes wide open. 
 

I'm a big believer in worrying about the biggest and closest alligators to the boat, which, in terms of service member health risks, are:

1) long term ailments from on-the-job hazards we've completed normalized

2) dying in some interventionist boondoggle halfway round the world

...

...

...

...

67) drowning in Tumon bay

68) actual alligators

69) covid vaccine side effects

Which is why this whole outrage seems a little manufactured, out of proportion, and strangely coincident with a red-to-blue presidential admin turnover. 

One does wonder, if Trump had been reelected, touting "his" vaccine (developed in Operation Warp Speed under his administration), would vaccination trends be reversed? Would the liberals be screaming about Trump's "unsafe vaccine" and "payouts to big pharma" while conservatives "followed the science" and attempted to ostracized unvaccinated lefties "as a safety precaution"?

[Negatory]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:53 PM, BashiChuni said:

oh no you don't...we KNEW pretty early on that covid was statistically a non event for young, healthy people. and turns out Fauci and his buddies at Pfizer KNEW it didn't prevent the spread...we were told straight up lies and coerced into taking a shot that provides zero protection and is very harmful...latest numbers i heard were 1 in 800 have side effects. that is a very high number and this shot should NEVER have been MANDATED.

so don't give me this 20/20 bullshit....the warnings were being issued very early on but FUCKING CENSORED

No one else wants to engage? We doing the echo chamber thing again where we get really mad at a fallacious argument? Gotta love the analysis capabilities of retired military officers. Let’s look at this.

The specific issue with your argument is that you say a couple of facts, but you entirely discount very important tenets to why Americans a a whole did what they did, and then you say something wildly out there that does not logically follow: “the shot should NEVER have been MANDATED.” Very Tucker Carlson approach.

The purpose of the shot was to stop transmission so that old people, who had a MORTALITY rate above the single percentages (and a similarly high severe disease rate requiring hospitalization) wouldn’t die in droves and entirely inundate the healthcare system. Everyone understood it wouldn’t kill young people, yes, even early on. The purpose was to maintain the healthcare system.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1327

Republicans may not have liked doing something to try and protect the population, but the country as a whole was supportive of efforts to not have every one of their grandparents have a real chance of death. Here are the facts:

Side effects of the vaccine were NOT well understood until it was made and distributed to a significant portion of the population, and the negative heart effects are not typical of other vaccine efforts. Those are real, and they are unfortunate. If you say otherwise, provide proof.

The fact that it does not significantly limit spread was NOT understood - it initially was believed to significantly cut spread, up to 90%. It didn’t, and that is unfortunate. If you argue otherwise, provide proof.

As a side note, many of you strongly pushed for ivermectin just because conservative propaganda wanted you to go against the grain, which has still been shown to have almost no efficacy and multiple bad side effects. Don’t see that addressed very often on here.

The vaccine has a very high efficacy rate of reducing mortality and severe illness in those over a certain age. It reduces death rates in populations over 60 by up to 90% in many excess death analyses. Also, republican areas that refused the vaccine had significantly more excess deaths than areas that did not. You entirely discount this point.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna50883

You’ll note that many on this forum - me included - advocated for the vaccine when these things were believed: that it would limit spread, have no significant side effects (like most other vaccines), and limit mortality in vulnerable populations. It only accomplished limiting mortality (which you entirely scoff), and that’s when liberals as a population began not pushing for vaccination as the solution anymore. Especially not for young people, as they were a transmission vector whether or not they got the shots.

You’ll also note that, as facts came out that showed the vaccine was not going to be effective from a transmission perspective, they were acknowledged and the push for vaccines decreased. Reminder: Trump recommended vaccination for the first year.

Your anger is unjustified. Your argument is fallacious. You have taken rational thought to protect a portion of society - which, fine, you may have disagreed with, but it’s still rooted in logic and rational - and vilified it to the point of insulting your countrymen and implying we are part of what is wrong with America. That hostility and open contempt of others who looked at a problem differently than you did is what is wrong with America.

And yes, I recognize there were others on the liberal side that were contemptuous. But let’s not reframe the argument, as a few folks on here including you have done, to you were always right and everyone else was always wrong and what a FUCKIN TRAVESTY. What an absolutely asinine, non intellectual take.

Oh, and, as always, I am able to provide actual sources for every single thing I said. But I am going to elect to wait for you to start. Good luck.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Negatory

[brabus]

[SocialD]

8 hours ago, Pooter said:

I'm a big believer in worrying about the biggest and closest alligators to the boat, which, in terms of service member health risks, are:

1) long term ailments from on-the-job hazards we've completed normalized

2) dying in some interventionist boondoggle halfway round the world

...

...

...

...

67) drowning in Tumon bay

68) actual alligators

69) covid vaccine side effects

...

...

...

669)  Causing a drain on the healthcare system and/or Dying from Covid.  

 

 

Updated your list of concerns for service member health risks.   

[Negatory]

Not surprised Brabus. During some of this discourse through the years I actually, at one point, mistakenly thought you were smart.

[VMFA187]

Pawnman, Pooter, Polarbear, Negatory - Go read The Real Anthony Fauci. It'll be good for you. I read White Fragility and realized it was complete and utter bullshit. Maybe you'll feel the same about the former, but I bet you won't. Or you can just keep reading reports that agree with your viewpoints that have been fed to you by big pharma and keep deepening your foxhole. 

[VMFA187]

36 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Everyone understood it wouldn’t kill young people, yes, even early on. The purpose was to maintain the healthcare system.

 

Here are the facts:

Side effects of the vaccine were NOT well understood until it was made and distributed to a significant portion of the population, and the negative heart effects are not typical of other vaccine efforts. Those are real, and they are unfortunate. If you say otherwise, provide proof.

The fact that it does not significantly limit spread was NOT understood - it initially was believed to significantly cut spread, up to 90%. It didn’t, and that is unfortunate. If you argue otherwise, provide proof.

As a side note, many of you strongly pushed for ivermectin just because conservative propaganda wanted you to go against the grain, which has still been shown to have almost no efficacy and multiple bad side effects. Don’t see that addressed very often on here.

The vaccine has a very high efficacy rate of reducing mortality and severe illness in those over a certain age. It reduces death rates in populations over 60 by up to 90% in many excess death analyses.

You’ll note that many on this forum - me included - advocated for the vaccine when these things were believed: that it would limit spread, have no significant side effects (like most other vaccines), and limit mortality in vulnerable populations. It only accomplished limiting mortality (which you entirely scoff), and that’s when liberals as a population began not pushing for vaccination as the solution anymore. Especially not for young people, as they were a transmission vector whether or not they got the shots.

Your anger is unjustified.

Then it shouldn't have been forced upon young people. 

Then it should have been studied longer - Agreed? Especially before coercing people to take it. 

Then it should have been studied longer - Agreed?

Ivermectin has been 100% shown to be effective. There is a reason that it received bad press, there was no money in that treatment. 

Great, have them take it. 

Maybe you should have a more skeptical mind. That is your fault.

Anger unjustified? I was forced to take an unproven vaccine at the behest of the big pharma industrial complex. Go **** yourself. 

[brabus]

@Negatory Really helping your credibility here. Feel free to peruse multiple years of discussion where you were wrong, many people were right, you were a self-righteous asshole to them, then you gave a “sorry (but not really sorry)” apology after it became impossible to hide the fact you were wrong…and now you’ve decided to quadruple down by arguing why it’s OK you were wrong and being a douchebag to others was warranted. It must be painful as fuck to be your IPs/WOs dealing with all the quibbling and excuses you must make. 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

Pawnman, Pooter, Polarbear, Negatory - Go read The Real Anthony Fauci. It'll be good for you. I read White Fragility and realized it was complete and utter bullshit. Maybe you'll feel the same about the former, but I bet you won't. Or you can just keep reading reports that agree with your viewpoints that have been fed to you by big pharma and keep deepening your foxhole. 

Pass. I already think Fauci is a douche. That doesn't change the fact that the vaccines did drastically reduce the lethality of Covid among those most susceptible. 

I never wanted broad mandates for all Americans. I recognized that the president had the authority to make the military take the vaccine. That's very different than demanding the unvaccinated be kicked out of restaurants, schools, stores, hospitals, etc.

 

[VMFA187]

20 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Pass. I already think Fauci is a douche. That doesn't change the fact that the vaccines did drastically reduce the lethality of Covid among those most susceptible. 

I never wanted broad mandates for all Americans. I recognized that the president had the authority to make the military take the vaccine. That's very different than demanding the unvaccinated be kicked out of restaurants, schools, stores, hospitals, etc.

 

I already knew the answer. But thanks for validating me.