What's wrong with the Air Force?

[uhhello]

4 minutes ago, jrizzell said:

 

“One person shit’s their pants, everyone wears diapers”. Forcing the entire force to wear blues, as uniform of the day, because of some rowdy young enlisted troops is just pathetic leadership. The USAF needs another war, and fast 🤷‍♂️


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

 

We were at peak Iraq war last time it was enacted 

Edited January 15 by uhhello

[Smokin]

3 hours ago, di1630 said:

I see nothing wrong with this. The USAF has become a jobs program for / of the force.

I want my support office workers to understand they are office support, not warriors, aircrew or Mx so wear blues M-Th….that’s how it was before [emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]/ and I liked it better.

If they take this out on pilots, it will get pushback but I think it’s intended to fight the lack of discipline in the enlisted ranks among support personnel.


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I doubt this is what will happen, but I personally think it would be great if it did.  If you don't need to wear a specific uniform because of job related physical requirements (pilots, MX, TACP, etc), then put on blues.  If you work in finance, personnel, etc then it's not just Blues Monday, but Blues Everyday.  You're a REMF; embrace it and do your job so the people that wear functional uniforms don't have to do your job for you.

One of the problems of the in lieu of taskings during the height of Iraq was the 'every airman is a warrior' BS.  If every airman is a warrior, then it is a logical conclusion that the actual warriors in the AF are no different than the finance troop. I heard Gen Walsh in person tell some random enlisted dude that at any given point he could be the most important person in the AF, as an enlisted maintainer.  I think that type of mentality leads to some of the BS we have going on now and fully matures as a E-9 trying to correct a pilot's zipper not being zipped half way up the name tag.  The average airman cannot articulate in a single sentence how he supports the kill chain.  That's bad.

[tac airlifter]

7 hours ago, dream big said:

At what point on the trajectory to CSAF do they castrate you and remove your common sense making you completely out of touch with reality? 

One of the most pertinacious and wrong ideas which senior Air Force leadership has embraced is this: every standard is equally valuable therefore if your zeal for all standards isn't equal you are unprofessional.  They believe a lack of rigidity about seemingly 'small' rules, like Friday patches, will result in negligent fratricide or crashing aircraft, etc.  They see (based on faith) a direct link to extreme outcomes for overlooking small infractions.

The idea you might ignore trivialities to prioritize important things like victory or safety is anathema and their minds are unable to process this situation.  Those of us outside their bubble intuitively understand prioritization is a natural human phenomenon and should be embraced rather than shunned.  We want young Captain ACs making decisions keeping missions on task & timeline rather than stopping a joint ROC drill because someone's sleeves are rolled up.  But these cultists are like celebrate monks looking at sex, convinced it's the source of all ills and endlessly devising rules to guardrail us from it... not understanding it's literally necessary for the species.
 

 In combat prioritization is essential to success; even a cursory examination of military history would prove as much.  Look no further than the Taliban and NVA for recent examples proving uniform compliance isn't tied to battlefield objectives; examples are numerous proving the absurdity of their core idea but they can't have the discussion.  I've tried.  Ask them for proof that selective standard enforcement will result in mission failure and they might have anecdotes but zero data.  There is zero data supporting their belief.  Ask them if standard compliance is so important, what is our process to test new standards before instituting and what is the process to repeal if data proves it isn't required?  No answers.  You'll go to SDE and study works from historic military minds, who all sported beards, then be told beards are incompatible with military success.  Then you'll go on an exercise with Allied nations who have beards, call them our indispensable partners, then with a straight face tell ourselves beards are unserious for military professionals.  This example is just beards but uniforms are the same.  Go find paintings of the continental army defeating forces of the tyrant King George and tell me which military has the most standardized uniforms, lol.  

The answer to your question is the moment you embrace ideas asserted without proof, cannot rationally convince those who ask for proof, trust only those who share your idea and ignore your own obvious intellectual hypocrisy... that's the moment you've gone full retard in pursuit of rank.  At that point even losing multiple wars is insufficient to free your mind, you've been captured and are unfit to lead despite what rank or position you hold.  This is the unfortunate state of our Air Force.  

 

Edited January 15 by tac airlifter

[pbar]

If blues are going to be mandatory, could they at least be brought up to 21st Century technology and be wash-and-wear?  There is a company that even makes suits that can be washed in a washing machine and worn and it looks just fine.  

[HuggyU2]

 

15 hours ago, cragspider said:

Guess McP and Skelator a happy to know they are being dethroned for the most hated CSAF. 

Who is the 2nd person you're thinking of?  Tony McPeak and "Skelator" are the same person.  

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:22 PM by HuggyU2

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

 

Who is the 2nd person you're thinking of?  Tony McPeak and "Skelator" are the same person.  

 

Some people (who aren't dinosaurs like you 😂🤣) thought that skeletor was referring to the guy who followed Mosley, I forget his name, but he was another skeleton-looking mother fucker. 

[Biff_T]

27 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

forget his name, but he was another skeleton-looking mother fucker. 

[cragspider]

2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

 

Who is the 2nd person you're thinking of?  Tony McPeak and "Skelator" are the same person.  

 

Huggy, no disrespect to the ones who served under him and came before my time, I was referring to the other skeleton looking guy who brought back everyone’s fave day, blues Mon. 

[BashiChuni]

13 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

One of the most pertinacious and wrong ideas which senior Air Force leadership has embraced is this: every standard is equally valuable therefore if your zeal for all standards isn't equal you are unprofessional.  They believe a lack of rigidity about seemingly 'small' rules, like Friday patches, will result in negligent fratricide or crashing aircraft, etc.  They see (based on faith) a direct link to extreme outcomes for overlooking small infractions.

The idea you might ignore trivialities to prioritize important things like victory or safety is anathema and their minds are unable to process this situation.  Those of us outside their bubble intuitively understand prioritization is a natural human phenomenon and should be embraced rather than shunned.  We want young Captain ACs making decisions keeping missions on task & timeline rather than stopping a joint ROC drill because someone's sleeves are rolled up.  But these cultists are like celebrate monks looking at sex, convinced it's the source of all ills and endlessly devising rules to guardrail us from it... not understanding it's literally necessary for the species.
 

 In combat prioritization is essential to success; even a cursory examination of military history would prove as much.  Look no further than the Taliban and NVA for recent examples proving uniform compliance isn't tied to battlefield objectives; examples are numerous proving the absurdity of their core idea but they can't have the discussion.  I've tried.  Ask them for proof that selective standard enforcement will result in mission failure and they might have anecdotes but zero data.  There is zero data supporting their belief.  Ask them if standard compliance is so important, what is our process to test new standards before instituting and what is the process to repeal if data proves it isn't required?  No answers.  You'll go to SDE and study works from historic military minds, who all sported beards, then be told beards are incompatible with military success.  Then you'll go on an exercise with Allied nations who have beards, call them our indispensable partners, then with a straight face tell ourselves beards are unserious for military professionals.  This example is just beards but uniforms are the same.  Go find paintings of the continental army defeating forces of the tyrant King George and tell me which military has the most standardized uniforms, lol.  

The answer to your question is the moment you embrace ideas asserted without proof, cannot rationally convince those who ask for proof, trust only those who share your idea and ignore your own obvious intellectual hypocrisy... that's the moment you've gone full retard in pursuit of rank.  At that point even losing multiple wars is insufficient to free your mind, you've been captured and are unfit to lead despite what rank or position you hold.  This is the unfortunate state of our Air Force.  

 

I can imagine you writing this with a nice glass of expensive scotch in hand. On the rocks. Not too much ice. Extremely well articulated. 

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Some people (who aren't dinosaurs like you 😂🤣) thought that skeletor was referring to the guy who followed Mosley, I forget his name, but he was another skeleton-looking mother fucker. 

 

[Lord Ratner]

14 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

One of the most pertinacious and wrong ideas which senior Air Force leadership has embraced is this: every standard is equally valuable therefore if your zeal for all standards isn't equal you are unprofessional.  They believe a lack of rigidity about seemingly 'small' rules, like Friday patches, will result in negligent fratricide or crashing aircraft, etc.  They see (based on faith) a direct link to extreme outcomes for overlooking small infractions.

The idea you might ignore trivialities to prioritize important things like victory or safety is anathema and their minds are unable to process this situation.  Those of us outside their bubble intuitively understand prioritization is a natural human phenomenon and should be embraced rather than shunned.  We want young Captain ACs making decisions keeping missions on task & timeline rather than stopping a joint ROC drill because someone's sleeves are rolled up.  But these cultists are like celebrate monks looking at sex, convinced it's the source of all ills and endlessly devising rules to guardrail us from it... not understanding it's literally necessary for the species.
 

 In combat prioritization is essential to success; even a cursory examination of military history would prove as much.  Look no further than the Taliban and NVA for recent examples proving uniform compliance isn't tied to battlefield objectives; examples are numerous proving the absurdity of their core idea but they can't have the discussion.  I've tried.  Ask them for proof that selective standard enforcement will result in mission failure and they might have anecdotes but zero data.  There is zero data supporting their belief.  Ask them if standard compliance is so important, what is our process to test new standards before instituting and what is the process to repeal if data proves it isn't required?  No answers.  You'll go to SDE and study works from historic military minds, who all sported beards, then be told beards are incompatible with military success.  Then you'll go on an exercise with Allied nations who have beards, call them our indispensable partners, then with a straight face tell ourselves beards are unserious for military professionals.  This example is just beards but uniforms are the same.  Go find paintings of the continental army defeating forces of the tyrant King George and tell me which military has the most standardized uniforms, lol.  

The answer to your question is the moment you embrace ideas asserted without proof, cannot rationally convince those who ask for proof, trust only those who share your idea and ignore your own obvious intellectual hypocrisy... that's the moment you've gone full retard in pursuit of rank.  At that point even losing multiple wars is insufficient to free your mind, you've been captured and are unfit to lead despite what rank or position you hold.  This is the unfortunate state of our Air Force.  

 

This is a great analysis, but you left out one key point that I fear might be more causal than anything else you wrote. 

 

The people at the top instituting these policies made it to where they are specifically because of their ability to master the very insignificant processes that we're talking about. You are asking them to admit that the very core of their success, and thus their identity, is not only irrelevant, but detrimental to the real mission of killing our enemies and breaking their things. 

 

They will never do that.

[nsplayr]

22 hours ago, jrizzell said:

The InterWebs is hinting that they’ve heard ACC briefs, that starting in June, UOD will become blues. Man am I glad I retired

 

Fuck me dead do not speak this into existence. About to start an attached flyer staff tour and I swear to Jesus if I have to wear blues everyday I don’t fly I will kick a puppy. I will also fly for 30 mins every single day, sim or combat line 😁 Perks of RPA…

Seriously though, what about changing people’s daily uniform makes them more lethal, more ready, better leaders, or better stewards of our limited resources?

Which ALQ encompasses dumbfuckery uniform Chiefing, sock measuring, shaving waiver inspection and duck walking so I can give some of our leaders who support this high marks??

I wanna defeat & deter aggression from our geopolitical adversaries - any focus away from that toward excessive bellybutton gazing is misguided.

Edited Wednesday at 10:17 PM by nsplayr

[arg]

Chang said you can easily perform you RPA duties in blues.

[Standby]

If all USAF pilots are being forced to wear blues every day, might as well go to the 89th and get a free jacket too. 

[Lawman]

Chang said you can easily perform you RPA duties in blues.

I mean in fairness, the fact they wear flight suits is a little stupid. Like when is the last time a GCS Caught fire? Just wear the utility uniform and call it good.


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[disgruntledemployee]

The Russians are behind this, because, well, that's what they do.  So any CC or Gen that enacts this is working for the enemy.

[Boomer6]

Item number 69 on the list of reasons I tell the youngins to go guard at all costs.

Edited Thursday at 03:21 AM by Boomer6

[StoleIt]

4 hours ago, Standby said:

If all USAF pilots are being forced to wear blues every day, might as well go to the 89th and get a free jacket too. 

Not worth it. But, OCONUS we wore self procured suits. So they could be as nice or shitty as you wanted to invest for,

[Ant-man]

Our “near-peer” adversaries are rapidly becoming peer. We’re at least a decade behind where we should be in terms of modernization. We’re hemorrhaging our most valuable human capital at a pace that almost seems deliberate. We have a host of young airmen that have no connection to the concept of service and treat the military like a jobs program for unemployed TikTokers…but the HIGHEST RANKING dude in the Air Force is addressing the branch regarding uniform standards!? Bros at WEPTAC don’t need to be worrying about whether they remembered to bring a nametag without a call sign. Funny that Norty Schwartz was mentioned because they were both herbivores…surely a coincidence.
 

But seriously, the state of our fleet and quality of training for operators should keep people up at night, and it’s not helping that we spend an inordinate amount of time and energy focused on managing programs born of the post-9/11 bureaucratic bloat or chasing DEI and innovation initiatives. Take a scroll through TMT to see what I mean. We’ve lost sight of what it would take to decisively win a war against an actual adversary. There isn’t a base in the AF where I could find ten people who aren’t ops or mx and have five of them tell me what the wing’s mission is. I don’t know what the fix is but I’m damn sure it’s not another rewrite of 36-2903…

[BashiChuni]

7 hours ago, Standby said:

If all USAF pilots are being forced to wear blues every day, might as well go to the 89th and get a free jacket too. 

NERD

[ClearedHot]

14 hours ago, Lawman said:

I mean in fairness, the fact they wear flight suits is a little stupid. Like when is the last time a GCS Caught fire? Just wear the utility uniform and call it good.


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Send it forward as a Form 1000, think of all the money we would save on flight suits, boots and leather jackets.  They best part if the RPA pilots are O's so they will have to pay for their own blues...Winning!

[dream big]

9 hours ago, Ant-man said:

Funny that Norty Schwartz was mentioned because they were both herbivores…surely a coincidence.
 

Valid, Norty and Alvin are two CSAFs pushing this shit that both happen to be herbivores (which makes most of us AMC guys nauseous rest assured); but in fairness Wilsbach as current COMACC is not and he’s one of the most ardent perpetuators of this standards initiative; whilst former AMC commander said quote “I’m not doing that shit, I’m focused on keeping future AMC crews alive in the Pacific.” 

[Day Man]

14 hours ago, Ant-man said:

Funny that Norty Schwartz was mentioned because they were both herbivores…surely a coincidence.

the focus on lethality under welsh, goldfein, and brown is noted  

Edited Thursday at 07:09 PM by Day Man

[HuggyU2]

11 hours ago, Ant-man said:

... they were both herbivores…

Ironic that you used the term "herbivore". 
 

When McPeak was CINC PACAF, he was notorious for ordering bean salads for the entire staff when they were doing "working lunches". 
 

Hard to believe he is 89. I guess the diet worked ok for him. 🤷‍♂️

[ClearedHot]

11 hours ago, Ant-man said:

but the HIGHEST RANKING dude in the Air Force is addressing the branch regarding uniform standards!? Bros at WEPTAC don’t need to be worrying about whether they remembered to bring a nametag without a call sign.

Point of order, in recent times the first clown to recycle the open ranks inspection, nitpicking of uniforms and banning of items that made life easier for folks on the flightline was the ACC Commander Wilsbach, an Eagle Pilot to the core.

11 hours ago, Ant-man said:

Funny that Norty Schwartz was mentioned because they were both herbivores…surely a coincidence.

Again, point of order, the first clown to start the airlinepilot looking uniform changes, V-neck t-shirts and gigline gazing was McNutgobbler when he was CSAF.  Again another scrotum hugging, Eagle driving, fighter guy.