What's wrong with the Air Force?

[FUSEPLUG]

Roger.

Well then I'm glad you guys got your memo granting permission to wear your flight suit how you like. Make sure you print that out and carry it in your pocket just in case someone decides to call you out. 

I agree with you guys, no point in being angry, but this memo is just another sign that the focus at the top continues to be on things that don't matter. If this memo is the trigger that keeps a guy in until 20 instead of going to work for Delta, then you're right - it's a step in the right direction.   

 

[sqwatch]

Using this as evidence other issues are not also getting looked at simply does not pass basic logical scrutiny.


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[RTB]

1 hour ago, FUSEPLUG said:

Thankfully the 3-stars are all over the important shit going on in today's Air Force.

Meanwhile at the squadron level... the experienced guys/gals are racing out the door so fast it makes your head spin.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, GENERAL NOWLAND!

I think you might want to hold fire for now.  From what I've been told, this was the result of a face to face discussion with guys at WEPTAC and was an answer to the question "what can we do that's an easy kill right now".  This was a topic apparently brought up among many others and was addressed by HAF in about a 2 week period.  Is it going to solve the problem?  No.  Does it remove a stupid restriction to the wear of the bag?  Yes.  

[Jaded]

So all it takes is a dire threat to the basic manning and viability of our fighter force to get logical, easy policy changes implemented? As soon as this crisis is over, I expect the shenanigans to continue. That memo will be rescinded in a heartbeat.

[08Dawg]

Bitch all you want about priorities....I cannot wait for the first time some E-9 with nothing better to do tries to correct me and I can pull this MFR out of my pocket.  Oh, how the craniums will be explodin'!

[osulax05]

Hitme FTW!

[zmoney]

1 hour ago, osulax05 said:

Hitme FTW!

Agreed! 

[Lord Ratner]

Thankfully the 3-stars are all over the important shit going on in today's Air Force.
Meanwhile at the squadron level... the experienced guys/gals are racing out the door so fast it makes your head spin.
WAKE THE UP, GENERAL NOWLAND!

Un-ing real. Do us all a favor and keep this shit to yourself. Are you related to the guy who thinks all business negotiations are rational?

This is not how we win the battle, boys and girls. If your wife starts wearing lingerie at night, you don't spit in her face, tell her to put on sweat pants and get a better-paying job.

You take the win, say thank you, shake hands, then immediately start pressing for the next win.

[MooseAg03]

What about my black boots? I'll expect that memo by this Friday.


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[ThreeHoler]

Is this real life?

Is this just fantasy?

[pcola]

Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide



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[di1630]

I'm caught between the "nice job USAF" on letting me roll up my sleeves and the "YGBSM....the fact I need a memo approving it" in the first place to show how f'd up our priorities have gotten.

Personally, ever since I realized the USAF needs me more than I need it. I've been rolling up my sleeves, zipper down, morale tab tab on, embroidered shirt exposed, sunglasses on my cranium, baseball cap with flag anyway while deployed. Nobody has said sh-t.


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[Snooter]

4 hours ago, di1630 said:

Personally, ever since I realized the USAF needs me more than I need it. I've been rolling up my sleeves, zipper down, morale tab tab on, embroidered shirt exposed, sunglasses on my cranium, baseball cap with flag anyway while deployed. Nobody has said sh-t.

I'd be careful, all it takes is a market correction for the Air Force to be okay with manning and you needing a job... I'm hoping we don't see that until I get my line number and some seniority but you never know...

[Clark Griswold]

Never do this, no matter how petty and insulting the policy/rule.

[tk1313]

1 hour ago, BeerMan said:

no escape from reality 

Mom's spaghetti

[MooseAg03]

AFSOC sup to uniform reg authorizes black boots and black t-shirt w/ flight suit now

Unfortunately, black boots are not worth going to Canon. I wish the rest of the AF would follow suit.

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[FlyinGrunt]

Bashi, I see the part you're talking about, but if you read on you'll see the part about the 2011 phaseout.  Whoever wrote (read: copy/paste/don't change) this didn't do a good job of attention to detail.  I'm sure they'll fix the glitch after someone tries a little throwback thursday action.

Not that I give 2 fvcks about the Shoe Clerk Vol 3, but I like all my sh1tstorms the be caused intentionally, not through misreading some reg.

[di1630]

I'd be careful, all it takes is a market correction for the Air Force to be okay with manning and you needing a job... I'm hoping we don't see that until I get my line number and some seniority but you never know...

It's time for pilots to take back the USAF. I get it, 6-9 years back when we were scared of pissing someone off and getting an RPA or RIF, we bowed to the chiefs and spineless leaders.

You are setting an example for the young airmen just by being a pilot. Pilots should have status, status should have privileges.

Don't be an ass, don't be a clown with your superiority but accept it, you are at the top of the food chain, act like it, be proud of your work that got you there.

Don't let some jealous nonner shoe clerk pilot-wannabe strip you of it.....especially in times like this where you are finally being acknowledged as an asset.



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[red.rogue.one]

[TnkrToad]

1 hour ago, red.rogue.one said:

Not Friday yet, but here's a quick history lesson:

The AAF graduated over 193,000 pilots (just pilots, not bombardiers, navs, flt engineers, gunners, etc.) in 6 years, between Jul '39 and Aug '45.

There were only 966 student pilots in training in Sep 39. By Dec 43, there were 74,000 pilots in stateside training alone. Bottom line, Of course there was little to no briefing. The instructors were barely more qualified than their students. They had comparatively little knowledge to offer, and minimal time to impart what wisdom they did have. Wartime flying "training" was less training than Darwinian survival of the fittest, because it was the blind leading the blind. Consequently, there were 136,000 flying training eliminees and fatalities in stateside training alone. Over 65,000 aircraft were lost in the CONUS alone during the war (15,000 of them were heavy & very heavy bombers).

My point--Wanna get people killed or injured? Fight wars without effective planning, briefing and postmission debriefing. WW II sounds really awesome, until you realize the human carnage and piles of bent metal that went along with it.

TT

[matmacwc]

15 hours ago, di1630 said:

It's time for pilots to take back the USAF. I get it, 6-9 years back when we were scared of pissing someone off and getting an RPA or RIF, we bowed to the chiefs and spineless leaders.

 

Speak for yourself, you know I didn't bow.

Edited February 1, 2017 by matmacwc

[di1630]

Speak for yourself, you know I didn't bow.

Aren't you in the Guard because your reward assignment for 4 years in Del Rio of T-38's was a 3 year follow-on assignment to Sheppard for T-38's?

Maybe you should have bowed a bit.


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[ClearedHot]

16 hours ago, TnkrToad said:

Not Friday yet, but here's a quick history lesson:

The AAF graduated over 193,000 pilots (just pilots, not bombardiers, navs, flt engineers, gunners, etc.) in 6 years, between Jul '39 and Aug '45.

There were only 966 student pilots in training in Sep 39. By Dec 43, there were 74,000 pilots in stateside training alone. Bottom line, Of course there was little to no briefing. The instructors were barely more qualified than their students. They had comparatively little knowledge to offer, and minimal time to impart what wisdom they did have. Wartime flying "training" was less training than Darwinian survival of the fittest, because it was the blind leading the blind. Consequently, there were 136,000 flying training eliminees and fatalities in stateside training alone. Over 65,000 aircraft were lost in the CONUS alone during the war (15,000 of them were heavy & very heavy bombers).

My point--Wanna get people killed or injured? Fight wars without effective planning, briefing and postmission debriefing. WW II sounds really awesome, until you realize the human carnage and piles of bent metal that went along with it.

TT

A slightly better way of stating the cost...during WW II we lost more aircraft and people to training accidents than we did to combat operations...staggering. 

I also disagree with the "go do this and come back alive construct", losses of 25% in a single raid would be unacceptable in today's world.  The second raid on Schweinfurt is a great illustration of the cost...Of the 291 B-17's sent on the mission, 60 were lost outright, another 17 damaged so heavily that they had to be scrapped, and another 121 had varying degrees of battle damage. Outright losses represented over 26% of the attacking force. Losses in aircrew were equally heavy, with 650 men lost of 2,900, 22% of the bomber crews.

[SocialD]

10 hours ago, di1630 said:

Aren't you in the Guard because your reward assignment for 4 years in Del Rio of T-38's was a 3 year follow-on assignment to Sheppard for T-38's?

Maybe you should have bowed a bit.


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He's in the Guard, I would say it worked out pretty well for him.  

[TnkrToad]

15 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

A slightly better way of stating the cost...during WW II we lost more aircraft and people to training accidents than we did to combat operations...staggering. 

I also disagree with the "go do this and come back alive construct", losses of 25% in a single raid would be unacceptable in today's world.  The second raid on Schweinfurt is a great illustration of the cost...Of the 291 B-17's sent on the mission, 60 were lost outright, another 17 damaged so heavily that they had to be scrapped, and another 121 had varying degrees of battle damage. Outright losses represented over 26% of the attacking force. Losses in aircrew were equally heavy, with 650 men lost of 2,900, 22% of the bomber crews.

Copy. Losses on missions like the Schweinfurt raid had much to do with inadequate training & experience. Of course, many of those crews were lost because the (primarily fighter pilot) AAC/AAF leadership failed to adequately consider the need for long-range fighters. It is noteworthy that the P-38, P-47, and P-51 (which would define the AAF's long-range fighter fleet) had all flown before the AWPD-1 team first met in Aug 1941. Furthermore, especially in senior leadership billets, fighter pilots grossly outnumbered bomber pilots throughout the war.

It must still have been the bomber guys' fault that so many of their crews got shot down over Germany. It couldn't have had anything to do with (ACTS pursuit--read fighter--instructor) Hoyt Vandenberg (who at the time was responsible for global aircraft allocation), who wrote (ACTS fighter instructor) Tooey Spaatz in early 1941 that bomber escort was "incompatible with the mission of pursuit." In this, he was merely parroting the opinion of his ACTS fighter pilot mentor Claire Chennault. Folks like Curt Lemay (who started his career as a fighter pilot) would suffer the consequences of decisions made by men who failed to fully consider what the strategic bombardment mission would entail.

Thankfully, American productive capacity and airmen's wartime learning (going back to plan/brief/execute/debrief discussion) enabled the AAF to overcome early wartime strategic planning blunders. I sure hope our senior leaders can convince the President and Congress of the need to maintain adequate numbers of well-trained crews, operating high-quality weapons systems, so we don't suffer any future Schweinfurts.

BTW, the 8th AF lost more men over Europe than the Marines did in all of the Pacific. Somehow that never shows up in the Marines' propaganda efforts. What's really crazy is that the AF doesn't advertise how much airpower contributed to winning the Second World War, either. Of course, that would mean airmen would have to read history books.

TT