What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Bender]

Agreed. However you don’t also force your will others. Since when can be offended for someone else? That just seems very weird.

The trick is to spend a few extra minutes after having a few drinks to ensure we use all of the words we intend to make our point. Leaving out words, in general, hurts our credibility.

Trust me, I know about these things.

~Bendy

[herkbum]

We had namings in T-6s at the solo party. No families were invited, just IPs and the students. It was a great party and IIRC the OG/CC showed up for it, at least for awhile.

Don’t ever remember it happening in Tweets


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[Homestar]

Had a naming party in Tweets. It was stupid. 

[Hacker]

41 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Had a naming party in Tweets. It was stupid. 

Yup, my UPT class in the late 90s had a post-solo "naming" too.   Meh.

[ThreeHoler]

Post solo naming and not a lot of alcohol used. Lame and no one really wanted to be there. Not lame because of lack of alcohol. Just a lame concept overall.


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[Majestik Møøse]

Had a T-6 solo party/naming, T-38 transition party, T-38 naming. Our class were all friends, most of the IPs seemed to give a shit, so everybody had a blast. We had a few prior WSOs/radar navs in our class, so we were read in on “this isn’t a real naming, but we’re going to act like it anyway.” The couple of classes before us didn’t really like each other, so they probably hated all those parties, if they even had them at all.

YMMV. Never force a party. Also don’t be the asshole that’s too cool for a party if everyone else is into it.

[FLEA]

I never took the T-6 naming as a serious naming but more like an introduction or indoctrination into the culture. Alcohol was apart of ours but none of the names actually stuck. It wasn't nearly as outrageous or as fun as the naming I had been to later in the CAF. But it was a great dip into being AF aircrew.

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, Guardian said:

Agreed. However you don’t also force your will others. Since when can be offended for someone else? That just seems very weird.

[Homestar]

7 hours ago, FLEA said:

But it was a great dip into being AF aircrew.

Maybe the fighter world. Naming parties and the like are not present in most (if not all) MAF communities. 

[Runr6730]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

Maybe the fighter world. Naming parties and the like are not present in most (if not all) MAF communities. 

Which is unfortunate and IMO part of what’s wrong with the MAF “community”.  I’ve been in both and like aspects of each one, but naming and roll calls would bring some much needed camaraderie and morale to a MAF community that needs it badly.  

[YoungnDumb]

Never seen a SP naming during my time at Vance, think it may be more of a Laughlin thing.

[Sua Sponte]

23 minutes ago, Runr6730 said:

Which is unfortunate and IMO part of what’s wrong with the MAF “community”.  I’ve been in both and like aspects of each one, but naming and roll calls would bring some much needed camaraderie and morale to a MAF community that needs it badly.  

Maybe if MAF leadership weren’t risk adverse managers.

[ThreeHoler]

Which is unfortunate and IMO part of what’s wrong with the MAF “community”.  I’ve been in both and like aspects of each one, but naming and roll calls would bring some much needed camaraderie and morale to a MAF community that needs it badly.  

We had plenty of morale and camaraderie years ago without naming parties and roll calls. Besides...how would you schedule something like that since at least 1/3rd of the squadron is gone any given day.

If you want to improve morale then ease the pain of soul-crushing ops tempos. The bullshit we saw in 2011 with the swell time for a CENTCOM deployment overlapping the AFRICOM deployment since they were different theaters. We are still seeing the effects of that mess.

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

Which is unfortunate and IMO part of what’s wrong with the MAF “community”.  I’ve been in both and like aspects of each one, but naming and roll calls would bring some much needed camaraderie and morale to a MAF community that needs it badly.  

We have camaraderie.  We get our families together for squadron activities and parties all the time.  It's just that Monday-Friday after work I like to go home to, you know, my family and stuff.  Nobody wants to hang out at a bar drinking after work for no good reason.

Not having stupid drinking games in the squadron is definitely not what is wrong with the MAF.

[Guardian]

Never seen a SP naming during my time at Vance, think it may be more of a Laughlin thing.

Had one in both phase 2 and 3 at Vance.

[YoungnDumb]

Likely before my time there (12-18), unless it's a recent development

[HuggyU2]

11 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Besides...how would you schedule something like that since at least 1/3rd of the squadron is gone any given day.

You simply schedule with for the 67% that are there.  Same way we do it in the U-2, where the 99 RS been deployed non-stop to the Arabian Peninsula since Saddam invaded in 1990; Osan for over 40 years; and our other location for over 40 years.  Yes, continually to all three locations, simultaneously.  

If an event like a Naming is well done, people will show up and have a great time.  

 

As alluded to, "namings" may not fit a particular squadron or mission culture.  And one thing to note is that, in my conversations with U-2 pilots older than me, they didn't have callsigns... much less "naming ceremonies"... in earlier years.  This includes guys that came out of pointy-nosed jets in the Vietnam era.  

To digress into a historical context... I went through UPT in '85-'86, there was definitely no naming ceremony at Laughlin back then and very few IP's had a callsign.  I was an exception since "Huggy" had been what people called me since middle school.  One example, the current AF Vice Chief of Staff General Steve 'Seve' Wilson was a young FAIP in the squadron then, and I'm guessing he got his callsign after he went to the B-1.  

I only recall a handful of MWS guys coming back to ATC/AETC with a callsign during my FAIP years (86-89).  One of the few I recall was a guy named "Buc" due to using the BUC Start on an F-16 that lit off at less than 100' AGL.  Cowboy Keck (F-4, F-15) was another... but those that know Cowboy can probably assume he was given that callsign in the womb.  

When I arrived at RAF Alconbury in 1990, there were two A-10 squadrons there and a fair number of those guys had callsigns.  I have no idea if they had big naming ceremonies (I've posed the question to a couple of old A-10 guys I know), but callsigns were certainly established.  

I would guess that actual naming ceremonies in fighter squadrons began to occur a little before my time (circa 1982)... but that's just my impression from talking to old-heads.  The bottom line is that "naming ceremonies" are a relatively recent addition to the USAF pilot culture.  Personally, I think they are a great thing and I've had a great time participating in them during my time.  

There's probably a great story about "the history of namings" that some academic at Air University should write a paper on, using lots of taxpayer dollars to research it.  

Edited December 24, 2018 by HuggyU2

[herkbum]

I grew up in the Herk and had a nickname I was given at Nav school. Really only used by the guys I played softball with, but carried it thru UPT and beyond. Wasn’t given an official callsign until we switched to MQ-9s and I was a Lt Col. Now everyone knows me by my callsign. It’s all about your community.


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[Majestik Møøse]

People don’t have fun in the MAF because it’s run by Chiefs, wanna-be Chiefs, support officers, and some rated guys that pander to all of the above. Life in garrison is dominated by bureaucrat queep and non-support, so any fun doesn’t start until you’re at least 69 tacans away from the MOB, and only then if you have a good crew.

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. You’re in crew rest? In Thailand? With only your personal laptop and CAC reader you stole from DOV? Well we need quarterly award bullets from 2 of your boom operators yesterday, and by the way we all hate you because we’re still in the office.

When I was there, the thought of Travis AFB, and by extension its AD flying squadrons, generated a near-Pavlovian wretching action associated with non-stop, no-gain bureaucratic queep churn. There was no squadron morale, and certainly no desire to hang out for any amount of time in the building when the emails slowed down enough to allow it.

The U-2 is a complete 180 from that. The MOB is fun, FOLs even more so, the flying is rewarding and fun, and the work is all to make things actually better.

[MooseClub]

6 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. 

 

Had a sqd cc say something similar to me once. I looked at him like he had a dick growing from his forehead. 

And they wonder why pilots go find other work.   

 

[Majestik Møøse]

6 hours ago, joe1234 said:

That wasn't my experience at all. I had tons of epic fun trips with great crews, even more fun experiences at home, and never wrote any bullets or did any of that crap when I was on the road. But then again, you probably got good strats, awards, and PME opportunities. We all make our choices in life, I guess.

I’m not sure you got the gist of my post.

[matmacwc]

23 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

Which is unfortunate and IMO part of what’s wrong with the MAF “community”.  I’ve been in both and like aspects of each one, but naming and roll calls would bring some much needed camaraderie and morale to a MAF community that needs it badly.  

Enlisted aircrew is why this will never happen.  Ever.

[Don Frank]

On 12/21/2018 at 10:59 PM, LiquidSky said:

Seriously?

"The report said an absence of wing leadership contributed to the officer misconduct. It singles out Velino, who took command of the 47th, for being on TDY for 135 days during his first six months, or about 73 percent of the time. That included 128 days at Pilot Instructor Training at Joint Base San Antonio-Randolph, the report said."

Other parts of the report aside it turns out being on a mandatory TDY in order to do your job is wrong. 

What I'm sure the report doesn't mention is that the fired OG/CC banned alcohol from flight rooms for IPs and SPs months ago. Just like with the 69 BS/CC, not like he didn't try to do something. Sounds like there's much more to the firings though.

As for the enlisted perspective on drinking, they probably witnessed mostly drop night shenanigans. Easy to jump to conclusions based on that.

[Standby]

20 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

This was life at Travis 5 years ago, for me at least. Sq/CCs, in unison with the OG, once reminded aircraft commanders that they were still responsible for checking their .mil emails on the road daily, just in case someone required an immediate answer for some queep. You’re in crew rest? In Thailand? With only your personal laptop and CAC reader you stole from DOV? Well we need quarterly award bullets from 2 of your boom operators yesterday, and by the way we all hate you because we’re still in the office.

If you play into that game it’s your fault.

[norskman]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

Enlisted aircrew is why this will never happen.  Ever.

This. The SMAFIA has managed to hijack way too much power/influence in the RW world there serious negative effects that go along with it.some of the bros are trying to fix it but they don't even know where to start.