What's wrong with the Air Force?

[DirkDiggler]

26 minutes ago, ATIS said:

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/743377/brigadier-general-brad-m-sullivan/

Just wait.  I will weep for you if this happens. 

ATIS

What do you mean?

[ATIS]

7 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

What do you mean?

Worst leader I ever ran across since I entered the service in ‘92. We all dreaded going to work. 

ATIS

[Majestik Møøse]

17 minutes ago, ATIS said:

Worst leader I ever ran across since I entered the service in ‘92. We all dreaded going to work. 

ATIS

He’s got a DFC. Story behind it?

[DirkDiggler]

1 hour ago, Majestik Møøse said:

He’s got a DFC. Story behind it?

He’s got 2, both for leading formation airfield seizures in OEF and OIF if I’m not mistaken.

 

1 hour ago, ATIS said:

Worst leader I ever ran across since I entered the service in ‘92. We all dreaded going to work. 

ATIS

Interesting.  I had the complete opposite experience with his leadership (at multiple levels).  He’s got a great reputation in the Talon community, phenomenal pilot.  FWIW I’m pretty sure he’s not in running for AFSOC/CC, supposedly ruffled too many feathers when he was CJSOAC-A/CC.  Elton maybe, he’s headed to be the SOCOM J3 here this summer.

[BashiChuni]

Elton is legit

[Danger41]

19 hours ago, ATIS said:

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/743377/brigadier-general-brad-m-sullivan/

 

[ATIS]

"supposedly ruffled too many feathers when he was CJSOAC-A/CC"

That was my exposure to him...and I wasn't really in his direct Chain of Command.  I had another boss...but shared some common ground, and I camped out in his space.

Regardless...when I showed up to take over and serve my time....I asked why my replacement (and others on the floor) had makeshift rear view mirrows at their stations pointing aft.  It was to see him walking down the hall.  When we moved to a new location, we quickly got rid of the mirrors because we all recognized the sound of his door opening on the new carpet.  As the CC, I was just amazed at how he treated his folks (badly and in some cases just plain mean).  Bless the 05 that was his deputy on the floor....great guy and good at shielding most of the folks from the frag, but not always.  I surely hope he is doing well because he earned his stipes there and was a good dude as well (actually all the folks there were pretty damn 5x5...except for my U-28 Bro....had to always give him crap).   

His operational experience may be untouchable...and that I can't speak too.  All I can relate is watching him as the CJSOAC-CC, and I felt sorry for the AFSOC folks on the floor.   You could feel the sense of relief when the new CC came in, no more looking over your shoulder and just working the mission.  

Don't take this as me throwing crap toward the USAF....we have tons of folks like this on the Navy side...heck, maybe more.  

ATIS  

[Skitzo]

"supposedly ruffled too many feathers when he was CJSOAC-A/CC"

 Like calling an entire B Hut of Dracos to attention for an MWR inspection? I thought we were under attack. Crew rest be damned.

 

Say what you want about Slife but he never did that.

 

I know I am going to get shit piled on me but Slife never BSed anyone. I also didn’t think it was in appropriate to ask for accountability in scheduling of his squadron commanders.

 

“Why did you submit a 2407 to land early only to turn around and land at the original time?”

 

Crickets.

 

Maybe the approach was abrasive but I could respect it. We are AFSOC yes and we need to be flexible but we aren’t a flying club.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[ATIS]

13 hours ago, Skitzo said:

 Like calling an entire B Hut of Dracos to attention for an MWR inspection? I thought we were under attack. Crew rest be damned.

 

First few years of DRACO('06-'08) the Boss did a great job protecting us.  Never sensed the CJSOAC, althought some of the USAF types had to take the walk down the hallway to feed the bear a few times.  We were left alone and just did the mission...and being new kids on the block and needing to earn our keep...I am glad we had that cover.  It was only toward the end of my time (2008-ish) that the creep started to happen.  USAF produced crews (front and back) [vice hand picked, by name request front and back seaters] started to filter in.  That's when CJSOAC went to 11.  The new boss's for sure weren't "Old Breed"...they were managment.  Not saying that was bad...but you could tell they had a new master to serve.  Fast forward to 2013-14 when I came back for a touch and go in my Bragg capacity....it was full on stupid at that point.  The squadron I once knew, cowboy-ish...just fly and do the mission and keep the GFC's/JTAC's happy and calling on us, was long dead and buried.  Still great guys and gals flying the mission and did great work on station...but not the same culture as the original bunch.  

I am sure we all miss it to some degree...but in the back of our minds we knew we were at that right place at the right time....and it woudn't last.  And it didn't.

My buds locked the door of our B-hut when someone wearing a USAF uniform tried to come in from what I heard (I was flying days).  Boss intercepted them before they tried again and that was the last we heard.  

ATIS

[Breckey]

Now you have DRACO guys running from the MPs and being followed back to your compound by the PTDS.

[Standby]

2 hours ago, ATIS said:

The squadron I once knew, cowboy-ish...just fly and do the mission and keep the GFC's/JTAC's happy and calling on us, was long dead and buried.  Still great guys and gals flying the mission and did great work on station...but not the same culture as the original bunch. 

Calling total fucking bullshit on this.  We all know the type of culture that existed in the Block 10 days and while it may have been fitting at the time, I'm certain that even the greybeards who came back in leadership capacities were glad to see that it had changed.  Facts are facts: UPT direct accessions changed the age distribution, the program became more inculcated into the normal AFSOC hierarchy, and the "cowboy" culture disappeared.  What remained was a more highly skilled group of aviators who knew when to push it up and how to do it properly.  You know damn well the type of skeletons that linger in the U-28 closet and a lot of those black eyes haven't been seen recently which is for the better.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Standby

[ATIS]

SB:

Not saying we were perfect by any means (sometimes far from it), just different when the first tails were on the line. And not saying greybeard guys/and gal were better or worse. I was very impressed with the on station performance of the later block crews I witnessed, and the level of Stan you brought. A lot of that was a pickup game in the early days with the different communities we had.  The oversight from the staff level seemed a little over the top in my opinion (I’ve git the same opinion in my service the higher I get). “Highly skilled, that could be debated, but only over a beer. 

As you said “fitting at the time”. 

ATIS

[Standby]

1 hour ago, ATIS said:

“Highly skilled, that could be debated, but only over a beer. 

As you said “fitting at the time”. 

ATIS

It’s all in good fun - cheers!

[Skitzo]

It’s all in good fun - cheers!

So we are for/against Fu Man Chu mustaches?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BashiChuni]

4 hours ago, Skitzo said:

 

So we are for/against Fu Man Chu mustaches?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

or landing gear up....OOOOOOO shots fired!!! (all in good fun)

[tac airlifter]

19 hours ago, ATIS said:

Fast forward to 2013-14 when I came back for a touch and go in my Bragg capacity....it was full on stupid at that point.  The squadron I once knew, cowboy-ish...just fly and do the mission and keep the GFC's/JTAC's happy and calling on us, was long dead and buried.  Still great guys and gals flying the mission and did great work on station...but not the same culture as the original bunch.  

Curious what you mean by “full on stupid.”  Yes, by 2013 we had successfully crushed the culture of the cowboy, plane crashing early days.  That was on purpose.  By 2013 we were better at the mission and more lethal.  Quantifiably.  Nowadays they’re better than we were in 13, and isn’t that the objective of leaving something better than you found it?  We should all want the new guys to be better than us, and we’ve failed if it isn’t so.

What they did in 06-early 08 worked for the reason you described (small teams, selected by name) but that mission environment was unique and those guys mostly weren’t good at building it bigger when that was required.  Things had to change.   

Free whisky on me if we cross paths.  Good stuff too, I won’t go cheap on you!

[17D_guy]

17 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Curious what you mean by “full on stupid.”  Yes, by 2013 we had successfully crushed the culture of the cowboy, plane crashing early days.  That was on purpose.  By 2013 we were better at the mission and more lethal.  Quantifiably.  Nowadays they’re better than we were in 13, and isn’t that the objective of leaving something better than you found it?  We should all want the new guys to be better than us, and we’ve failed if it isn’t so.

What they did in 06-early 08 worked for the reason you described (small teams, selected by name) but that mission environment was unique and those guys mostly weren’t good at building it bigger when that was required.  Things had to change.   

Free whisky on me if we cross paths.  Good stuff too, I won’t go cheap on you!

We don't have the death problems in cyber, but this is exactly what it's like in our space now.  Hopefully we can replicate your success as fast, if not faster.  I'm going to steal your words for when I have to brief another GO about why there's no cyber "easy button."

[LJ Driver]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:39 AM, ATIS said:

USAF produced crews (front and back) [vice hand picked, by name request front and back seaters] started to filter in.

Ummm, no.... that’s really cute though

[matmacwc]

Yes, he’s saying B team.

[Danger41]

Half the original guys were top dudes and the other half were booger flicks. Those booger flicks caused some problems that are still being dealt with today. And honestly, they weren’t that good. The community now is so far beyond where they started it’s pretty unbelievable. 

The part that has always cracked me up about the original dudes is that they always talk about being all about the mission. However, they had such an insular, “Cowboy”, and flat out dickish culture that they stifled true mission hacking IOT stoke their own egos. Not true in all cases of course, but a lot of the original guys were their own worst enemies.

[Danger41]

On 3/13/2019 at 9:28 AM, Breckey said:

Now you have DRACO guys running from the MPs and being followed back to your compound by the PTDS.

You heard about that?!

Thomas Johnson 2020!

 

[Breckey]

I was there. You all lost your hipster mustaches after that.

[BashiChuni]

40 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

You heard about that?!

Thomas Johnson 2020!

 

legendary

 

[Danger41]

1 hour ago, Breckey said:

I was there. You all lost your hipster mustaches after that.

I’d describe mine as more of a “sexual tyrannosaurus” mustache.

[MechGov]

Sorta related to both the bonus thread and the promotion/PRF thread, but what could the AF do for non-command track dudes to incentivize performance in the second half of your career? It seems like the HPOs have their trajectory pretty much setup for success. Reading the other few threads, the bonus isn’t enough to offset the asspain that is AD, or those that take the blood money are hoping to stay at the unit until retirement.