What's wrong with the Air Force?

[LookieRookie]

Oh look USAFA being shit, who would’ve thought. (As a grad)

[BFM this]

10 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Big brother coming to USAFA, they are actually hiring an outside contractor to monitor the Facebook account of cadets.  Interested parties may view the solicitation here and bid accordingly.

So someone at USAFA thinks anyone under 30 is still on FB?

[HossHarris]

It’s Jodel. 
 

you wouldn’t understand. 

[FourFans]

So they monitor these guys as cadets...and then keep that access after they graduate...

[brabus]

As long as the cadets just have a bunch of minority trannies and pedophilia (sorry, I mean minor-attracted) shit on their page, maybe a 69 colors/shapes flag, and perhaps a shared link to Biff’s website selling unicorn fart-powered dildos, it’ll be smooth sailing and not a leadership eyebrow will be raised. Unless they’re a white male, then they’re fucked no matter what they do. So, who’s up for USAFA!?

[di1630]

Why does the USAFA even exist anymore? It’s an expensive way to make an officer and I can’t see any notable difference in quality between the rotc/ots/academy grads.


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[brabus]

For a very good reason! Because that’s the way we’ve always done it. The end. 

[jrizzell]

Why does the USAFA even exist anymore? It’s an expensive way to make an officer and I can’t see any notable difference in quality between the rotc/ots/academy grads.


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How else are you going to create socially awkward officers, with an overwhelming sense of superiority, who wear huge rings and tell Academy stories for the first 10 years of their careers


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[SurelySerious]

How else are you going to create socially awkward officers, with an overwhelming sense of superiority, who wear huge rings and tell Academy stories for the first 10 years of their careers


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Just increase the flow from Texas A&M, problem solved.

[CaptainMorgan]

Just increase the flow from Texas A&M, problem solved.

As long as we don’t increase the flow from the Citadel.


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[Zero]

Ahhh USAFA... like Big Blue, never passes up an opportunity by throwing money at problems in the attempt to get someone else to clean their house...  

What the Academy never seems to comprehend, or maybe even just acknowledge, is that a major contributing factor to many of their "problems" is that the place is full of cadets. (Yes, Edward Longshanks 'Braveheart' reference for the other grey-beards in attendance). Cadets are going to make mistakes-- a population demographic of 17-23 year olds, under intense pressure daily (debatable-- it was FAR tougher back in the day!), with limited and regulated pressure-relief options, suddenly given the anonymity of social media and intense social issues streaming around them-- some are going to make bad choices. 

If you read the referenced articles that came out of VMI back in 2020 (there are free ones that can be found other than the Washington Post's paywall), you can see the genesis of this issue-- apparently it's not relegated to the East Coast, but USAFA believes they have a problem. 

So, what would this silverback recommend? 

Lean into it. Get ahead of it. Build a center specifically to address these types of things-- call it the Character and Leadership Center. Build an old-school sundial to mark the location.  Wait, they already did that? 

Seriously though-- I'd direct AOCs to get on the app and OBSERVE. DO NOT INTERACT! Look for the leadership lessons and get to the root causes of the statements rather than taking a comment purely at face value. Publish the quotes internal to your organizations and get your cadets talking about them. It has to be a conversation-- cadets will tune out a lecture. They're experts at it. All college students are. 

Like the Dodo of old, the cartoons we published were generally attacking an issue that we had at the time. E-Dodo, in some ways, made things worse by removing the oversight of the official publication.  There were times that we pushed the limit just for the purposes of pushing the limit-- the kid in the back of the classroom  who yells "F#CK" just because he knows he'll get a laugh and the punishment will be worth it. But does it contribute anything meaningful? 

But we also dealt with serious issues through humor and wit. Our idea was that if you could laugh at something, you could address it and move on. Unfortunately, the expletives for laughs ruined some of that credibility. Not all-- not every artist went down that same rabbit hole. 

Like the best instructors know-- look at what the student asked, then look at what they DIDN'T ask in that question. Same with statements made via this social media outlet-- look past the words and look at the issues that they're really commenting on. They're tough issues-- EXACTLY the kind of thing I want officer candidates working through in an ACADEMIC environment.  

Realize that some are going to take it too far-- it's a given with that age group. Expect it-- lean into it. Get ahead of it and show them where the off-ramps are before they run themselves too far in the heat of the moment. Some will no matter what you do.  The ones that exhibit TRUE toxicity can be shown the door before they end up on the COMMANDERS ARE DROPPING LIKE FLIES thread. 

It's hard-- leadership is hard. 

Contracting out a solution will seem easy-- it's specific, measurable, and will seem attainable as printed on OPBs that get people promoted and off to their next assignment while the true problem still festers. Cadets will go deeper underground once the contractors show up on the threads. They'll spoof and move on. And contracting out leadership will only make the problem worse. 

But Zero, isn't your idea what they're trying to get at? Provide the examples so the Character and Leadership Center / AOCs can do their job?  Maybe. But why use a middle-man then? And the worst part of the contract is the direction to de-anonymize the users. That's going to push them further underground and make your problem a maneuvering target. 

They're YOUR cadets. 

And guess what? This solution works for ROTC. It works even if there ISN'T an actual problem! It gets our future officers talking about what's going on around them. Too many instructors think that such discussions are a third-rail that carries the potential as career-ending suicide. Maybe. Maybe not if you do it right. Doing nothing or ignoring it is FAR worse in the long run. 

Lead them. Teach them. Cut the ones who don't make the grade. Remember that they're kids, and their vectors need to be adjusted. Mine sure did. I'm thankful for the mentors I had at the joint and every assignment afterwards who took the time to keep the engine running, but in a constant and consistent state of adjusting that thrust. 

[Biff_T]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:39 PM, brabus said:

...Biff’s website selling unicorn fart-powered dildos, it’ll...

I pissed and shit myself reading this!  Thats a LOL brother...for real

We're having our next sale on New Years day!   Don't miss out on the Big Henry buy two for one deal.  We also call that the "General" special..

[raimius]

4 hours ago, Zero said:

Ahhh USAFA... like Big Blue, never passes up an opportunity by throwing money at problems in the attempt to get someone else to clean their house...  

What the Academy never seems to comprehend, or maybe even just acknowledge, is that a major contributing factor to many of their "problems" is that the place is full of cadets. (Yes, Edward Longshanks 'Braveheart' reference for the other grey-beards in attendance). Cadets are going to make mistakes-- a population demographic of 17-23 year olds, under intense pressure daily (debatable-- it was FAR tougher back in the day!), with limited and regulated pressure-relief options, suddenly given the anonymity of social media and intense social issues streaming around them-- some are going to make bad choices. 

If you read the referenced articles that came out of VMI back in 2020 (there are free ones that can be found other than the Washington Post's paywall), you can see the genesis of this issue-- apparently it's not relegated to the East Coast, but USAFA believes they have a problem. 

So, what would this silverback recommend? 

Lean into it. Get ahead of it. Build a center specifically to address these types of things-- call it the Character and Leadership Center. Build an old-school sundial to mark the location.  Wait, they already did that? 

Seriously though-- I'd direct AOCs to get on the app and OBSERVE. DO NOT INTERACT! Look for the leadership lessons and get to the root causes of the statements rather than taking a comment purely at face value. Publish the quotes internal to your organizations and get your cadets talking about them. It has to be a conversation-- cadets will tune out a lecture. They're experts at it. All college students are. 

Like the Dodo of old, the cartoons we published were generally attacking an issue that we had at the time. E-Dodo, in some ways, made things worse by removing the oversight of the official publication.  There were times that we pushed the limit just for the purposes of pushing the limit-- the kid in the back of the classroom  who yells "F#CK" just because he knows he'll get a laugh and the punishment will be worth it. But does it contribute anything meaningful? 

But we also dealt with serious issues through humor and wit. Our idea was that if you could laugh at something, you could address it and move on. Unfortunately, the expletives for laughs ruined some of that credibility. Not all-- not every artist went down that same rabbit hole. 

Like the best instructors know-- look at what the student asked, then look at what they DIDN'T ask in that question. Same with statements made via this social media outlet-- look past the words and look at the issues that they're really commenting on. They're tough issues-- EXACTLY the kind of thing I want officer candidates working through in an ACADEMIC environment.  

Realize that some are going to take it too far-- it's a given with that age group. Expect it-- lean into it. Get ahead of it and show them where the off-ramps are before they run themselves too far in the heat of the moment. Some will no matter what you do.  The ones that exhibit TRUE toxicity can be shown the door before they end up on the COMMANDERS ARE DROPPING LIKE FLIES thread. 

It's hard-- leadership is hard. 

Contracting out a solution will seem easy-- it's specific, measurable, and will seem attainable as printed on OPBs that get people promoted and off to their next assignment while the true problem still festers. Cadets will go deeper underground once the contractors show up on the threads. They'll spoof and move on. And contracting out leadership will only make the problem worse. 

But Zero, isn't your idea what they're trying to get at? Provide the examples so the Character and Leadership Center / AOCs can do their job?  Maybe. But why use a middle-man then? And the worst part of the contract is the direction to de-anonymize the users. That's going to push them further underground and make your problem a maneuvering target. 

They're YOUR cadets. 

And guess what? This solution works for ROTC. It works even if there ISN'T an actual problem! It gets our future officers talking about what's going on around them. Too many instructors think that such discussions are a third-rail that carries the potential as career-ending suicide. Maybe. Maybe not if you do it right. Doing nothing or ignoring it is FAR worse in the long run. 

Lead them. Teach them. Cut the ones who don't make the grade. Remember that they're kids, and their vectors need to be adjusted. Mine sure did. I'm thankful for the mentors I had at the joint and every assignment afterwards who took the time to keep the engine running, but in a constant and consistent state of adjusting that thrust. 

Wait, are you suggesting leaders at an academy that is supposed to develop leaders should demonstrate good leadership rather than contracting out their responsibilities?  What a novel concept.

[FourFans]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:53 PM, di1630 said:

Why does the USAFA even exist anymore? It’s an expensive way to make an officer and I can’t see any notable difference in quality between the rotc/ots/academy grads.

Why do we have UPT?  Just take civilian pilots with commercial licenses and go straight to the FTU.  After a couple years you won't notice the difference.

And why do we have ivy league schools anyway?  It's not like you can't become a doctor or a lawyer online.   Just do that instead.

Having trained UPT 2.0 students, the answer is clear: You don't realize what you have until you don't have it anymore.

If you want a high quality product, you create competition and a set a high bar.  That's what every elite university does, or should do.

Judging that process by the vocal minority of arrogant asshats it creates is not how you measure the quality of the process.

Yes, military academies need to improve (and get rid of the social experimentation bullshit).  So does EVERY university.  If you can't understand the reason for having a process that's competitive and pursues creation of elite levels of education, university level R&D, and leadership, you're seriously missing the point.

Zero hit the nail on the head.  We need USAFA and the other Academies to live up to what they're supposed to do: create and cultivate high quality mission focused military leaders.  I think they still do that to a degree, although they've noticeably strayed into social activism.  That means they need to course correct, not cease to exist.

Edited December 30, 2023 by FourFans

[Sua Sponte]

Stop rewarding social activism in the military. If that isn't done, then the service academies will continue down this wokeness path. Oh yeah, the dipshit former Macdill Wg/CC who wrote that "Dear White Colonels" article is at USAFA, figures.

[HU&W]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:39 PM, brabus said:

As long as the cadets just have a bunch of minority trannies and pedophilia (sorry, I mean minor-attracted) shit on their page, maybe a 69 colors/shapes flag, and perhaps a shared link to Biff’s website selling unicorn fart-powered dildos, it’ll be smooth sailing and not a leadership eyebrow will be raised. Unless they’re a white male, then they’re fucked no matter what they do. So, who’s up for USAFA!?

www.biffsunicornfartpowereddildos.com

[Lord Ratner]

3 hours ago, FourFans said:

Why do we have UPT?  Just take civilian pilots with commercial licenses and go straight to the FTU.  After a couple years you won't notice the difference.

And why do we have ivy league schools anyway?  It's not like you can't become a doctor or a lawyer online.   Just do that instead.

Having trained UPT 2.0 students, the answer is clear: You don't realize what you have until you don't have it anymore.

If you want a high quality product, you create competition and a set a high bar.  That's what every elite university does, or should do.

Judging that process by the vocal minority of arrogant asshats it creates is not how you measure the quality of the process.

Yes, military academies need to improve (and get rid of the social experimentation bullshit).  So does EVERY university.  If you can't understand the reason for having a process that's competitive and pursues creation of elite levels of education, university level R&D, and leadership, you're seriously missing the point.

Zero hit the nail on the head.  We need USAFA and the other Academies to live up to what they're supposed to do: create and cultivate high quality mission focused military leaders.  I think they still do that to a degree, although they've noticeably strayed into social activism.  That means they need to course correct, not cease to exist.

The academy didn't stray, society did. It will continue to stray until Something Very Bad happens that reminds society of the importance of serious thinking. If we win that struggle, we will have another century of seriousness and success.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[HU&W]

What’s wrong with the AF?

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3628675/slife-promoted-to-general-assumes-afs-second-highest-military-position/

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, HU&W said:

What’s wrong with the AF?

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3628675/slife-promoted-to-general-assumes-afs-second-highest-military-position/

Truly a sign that there is not a loving, compassionate god that regularly intervenes in man’s affairs…

[Biff_T]

17 hours ago, FourFans said:

Why do we have UPT?  Just take civilian pilots with commercial licenses and go straight to the FTU.  After a couple years you won't notice the difference.

And why do we have ivy league schools anyway?  It's not like you can't become a doctor or a lawyer online.   Just do that instead.

Having trained UPT 2.0 students, the answer is clear: You don't realize what you have until you don't have it anymore.

If you want a high quality product, you create competition and a set a high bar.  That's what every elite university does, or should do.

Judging that process by the vocal minority of arrogant asshats it creates is not how you measure the quality of the process.

Yes, military academies need to improve (and get rid of the social experimentation bullshit).  So does EVERY university.  If you can't understand the reason for having a process that's competitive and pursues creation of elite levels of education, university level R&D, and leadership, you're seriously missing the point.

Zero hit the nail on the head.  We need USAFA and the other Academies to live up to what they're supposed to do: create and cultivate high quality mission focused military leaders.  I think they still do that to a degree, although they've noticeably strayed into social activism.  That means they need to course correct, not cease to exist.

This.  

12 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Truly a sign that there is not a loving, compassionate god that regularly intervenes in man’s affairs…

Never trust an 11H general.. what was he doing while the boys were having fun in the 53?  

Edited December 31, 2023 by Biff_T
11H that can't spell. That's normal

[HeloDude]

42 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

This.  

Never trust an 11H general.. what was he doing while the boys were having fun in the 53?  

Well, to be accurate, he’s an 11S, but I get your point.  Slife the knife.

[tac airlifter]

20 hours ago, FourFans said:

Why do we have UPT?  Just take civilian pilots with commercial licenses and go straight to the FTU.  After a couple years you won't notice the difference.

And why do we have ivy league schools anyway?  It's not like you can't become a doctor or a lawyer online.   Just do that instead.

Having trained UPT 2.0 students, the answer is clear: You don't realize what you have until you don't have it anymore.

If you want a high quality product, you create competition and a set a high bar.  That's what every elite university does, or should do.

Judging that process by the vocal minority of arrogant asshats it creates is not how you measure the quality of the process.

Yes, military academies need to improve (and get rid of the social experimentation bullshit).  So does EVERY university.  If you can't understand the reason for having a process that's competitive and pursues creation of elite levels of education, university level R&D, and leadership, you're seriously missing the point.

Zero hit the nail on the head.  We need USAFA and the other Academies to live up to what they're supposed to do: create and cultivate high quality mission focused military leaders.  I think they still do that to a degree, although they've noticeably strayed into social activism.  That means they need to course correct, not cease to exist.

During the course of my military career, I saw zero evidence the academies are necessary or beneficial in any way.  The same cannot be said for UPT.  

[DirkDiggler]

Slife has (at least IMO) a long list of flaws.  I personally know a couple guys that flew with him, and, to his credit, none of them said he was a shitty pilot.

[ClearedHot]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

This.  

Never trust an 11H general.. what was he doing while the boys were having fun in the 53?  

Screaming at his wife.  When another GO tells you about going to his house and hearing him pull his wife into the hallway then scold her loud enough for all the other senior leaders to hear...he is a sociopath lunatic and proof the system is completely broken.

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

During the course of my military career, I saw zero evidence the academies are necessary or beneficial in any way.  The same cannot be said for UPT.  

This is one of the most abused lines of false reasoning I've heard used in attempts to back up nearly any argument these days.  "I didn't see it so obviously ... *insert claim*"   It's arrogant, irrational, and lazy.  In my military career it was the go-to argument of every arrogant career climbing O-6 to justify why he didn't want to implement the COAs his team had just spent days creating to solve some problem.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of anything.  You choosing to be actively ignorant about what actually happens at the academies is simply evidence of your own intellectual habits.

Are you grad?  Have you ever been to the academies? 

You are looking at elite centers of education and research that are service centric and saying "I don't know why we have that."  The Jet Lab at USAFA by itself sets it apart as an elite development center, not to mention the R&D done on aviation tech that takes place at the airfields.  Have you ever seen the 105 hanging out the side an AC-130J?   The aerodynamic fairings on and around it were initially designed by cadets as an aero department senior project.  Or perhaps the cadet chemist who created a whole new style of body armor.  I know for a fact the USA and USN both have equivalent stories.  But I'm sure those kinds of developments would definitely happen at Berkley or Embry Riddle, so yeah, clearly we should shut down the academies.

Come on man.  If you're going to make an argument against them, please do.  But put some meat behind it.  Otherwise, pull your head out of the sand and do some observing.

Edited December 31, 2023 by FourFans