What's wrong with the Air Force?

[brabus]

How about dropping an LGB downrange with your laser off, then not saying anything about it until a week later when you have a pilot meeting and tell everyone that the next guy to screw up is getting sent home. What a joke.

Heard about that one from a bro. Seriously, WTF is wrong with some people. Glad I never found myself in his chain of command.

[Toro]

So, as a non-pilot... how is this guy still getting promoted? If he's such a joke/ass to you guys, and you're bros.. why is he where he is?

Because impressing senior officers is a completely different skillset than gaining and maintaining the respect of your subordinates. Unfortunately, only the former gets you promoted.

[pawnman]

I remember when that guy flew in the red air block the entire DCA vul (on purpose, thinking it was the blue block), and when he figured it out in debrief, he grounded 2-4 (2 and 4 were not far out of MQT and 3 was a newer flight lead) for a week, but did not ground himself or even once utter anything resembling an "I fucked up," "I need to do X next time," etc. You could feel the collective "what the fuck!?" in the room. Dbag is an understatement.

Had a crew bust the border overseas with the DO onboard. DO sat the other members of the crew down while continuing to fly. ALO'd two of them in the following VML.

[brabus]

Wow. To bring it back the other way, my current sq/cc sat himself for over speeding the gear by 1 knot for < 1 sec. Good leadership does exist and gives me at least a small sliver of hope. It's too bad he seems to be in the vast minority.

[osulax05]

Is his spouse a sitting FW/CC?

Yes

[SEA]

Truly remarkable forum. Must be meant for whiny Air Force aircrew who can not maintain simple standards. Come join the USMC, we'll teach you how to fly right.

[discus]

Nah, the USMC only teaches people how to beat on their wives and kids... Oh, and get into bar fights. I'll stick where I am at. Nice first post.

[RTB]

Come join the USMC, we'll teach you how to fly right.

Funny! I get it! Such an absurd statement it's hilarious.

[dream big]

Truly remarkable forum. Must be meant for whiny Air Force aircrew who can not maintain simple standards. Come join the USMC, we'll teach you how to fly right.

You mean like your Phase 2 students who get lost on their solo ride? (In Pensacola where there is nothing but Gulf Coast due south). Or like those marine hornets who busted through our altitude block four times over an undisclosed location in Asia?

[Dupe]

Wow. To bring it back the other way, my current sq/cc sat himself for over speeding the gear by 1 knot for < 1 sec. Good leadership does exist and gives me at least a small sliver of hope. It's too bad he seems to be in the vast minority.

Downrange, now 5+ years ago, the AEW/CC stood up in front of all of us and described how he got spatial-D at night. The WSO recovered the jet with a 10-11g pull. The guy bought pizza, as a keg wasn't possible. Class act.

[osulax05]

Don't forget the rape.... YGBFSM?!?

Yogi was my SQ/CC, never seen morale so low for a bunch of fighter pilots about to go to war.

[LockheedFix]

You mean like your Phase 2 students who get lost on their solo ride? (In Pensacola where there is nothing but Gulf Coast due south). Or like those marine hornets who busted through our altitude block four times over an undisclosed location in Asia?

Or how about the Hornets that did a show of force 2NM north of the runway at OAKN (ie in the traffic pattern and real damn close to Mustang Ramp) at 500 KIAS and 500 feet without talking to tower and coming within 1000' of an MC-12 on ILS final. I guess there was an urgent tactical need inside the wire that required them to not maintain simple standards.

Edited October 17, 2013 by LockheedFix

[Longhorn15]

His wife isn't any better. Booze was removed from the FS bars at SJ and there are locks on the beer taps.

[Swanee]

Truly remarkable forum. Must be meant for whiny Air Force aircrew who can not maintain simple standards. Come join the USMC, we'll teach you how to fly right.

Easy bro- A- there are plenty of things wrong with the Marine Corps, and B, there are plenty of times Marines do stupid things in airplanes - but this thread isn't about that. Hence the title.

Everyone knows there are plenty of stories out there about dumbasses from every service busting the CAS stack, or effing away the tanker join and cutting someone out, flying in the bandit block as a blue air guy or [insert jackassery here].

[ak47]

You mean like your Phase 2 students who get lost on their solo ride? (In Pensacola where there is nothing but Gulf Coast due south). Or like those marine hornets who busted through our altitude block four times over an undisclosed location in Asia?

Close enough to see it was a Hornet just a few minutes prior to pitch black that night. That was a fun night.

[Swanee]

You mean like your Phase 2 students who get lost on their solo ride? (In Pensacola where there is nothing but Gulf Coast due south). Or like those marine hornets who busted through our altitude block four times over an undisclosed location in Asia?

Not sure what you mean by Phase 2- that doesn't exist in the Navy world. But yes, Primary studs do get lost from time to time on their first solo flying the course rules back to Whiting. They are notoriously complicated, and can be a bit overwhelming to a new stud especially in low vis. (no joke they include such directions are pick them up at the chicken ranch, turn towards the triangle of trees - which no longer contains trees - then follow the 2nd red dirt road towards the water tower, east at the factory and report the initial.) 99.5% don't have a problem though. But hey, since we're throwing stones I'm sure all of the AF "phase 2" studs fly flawlessly, and don't do anything stupid. I'd like to see them fly the course rules around a triple class C airspace and not ###### it away from time to time.

[17D_guy]

Because impressing senior officers is a completely different skillset than gaining and maintaining the respect of your subordinates. Unfortunately, only the former gets you promoted.

Thank you, and I knew this was somewhat the answer. But I thought, apparently incorrectly, that there would be more feedback among the pilot types to your bosses about who is/is not a leader. I figured around the bar, or debriefs, or whatever that a Sq CC would get the straight info.

I've done this in my MSG Sq's and among peers, but I've also been counseled numerous times on a lack of tact. I figured you guys wouldn't have that limitation/concern.

[Rusty Pipes]

Thank you, and I knew this was somewhat the answer. But I thought, apparently incorrectly, that there would be more feedback among the pilot types to your bosses about who is/is not a leader. I figured around the bar, or debriefs, or whatever that a Sq CC would get the straight info.

I've done this in my MSG Sq's and among peers, but I've also been counseled numerous times on a lack of tact. I figured you guys wouldn't have that limitation/concern.

Unfortunately too many of the Sq CC's these days are not leaders themselves and are pushing to promote in their own image... and they have been pretty successful in their cloning experiments so far.

[Fuzz]

We no longer have squadron bars they are now "heritage rooms".

I figured around the bar, or debriefs, or whatever that a Sq CC would get the straight info.

We no longer have squadron bars they are now "heritage rooms".

[17D_guy]

We no longer have squadron bars they are now "heritage rooms".

We no longer have squadron bars they are now "heritage rooms".

Well sweet, we've got those too. Has the vending machines, microwave, vision and mission statement and squadron picture from 4 commanders ago right?

[SEA]

I agree with the vast minority comment, but not on leaders, but on the stories in this group. I believe the vast minority of each story has some truth. I believe the problem with your AF is the entitlement your young pilots seem to have. "This is why I got out of AMC". A good leader would suck it up, try to make it to a position where you can make these changes. Instead you run and leave your "wingman" to endure. To the vast majority complaining on this forum, reflect on your own integrity and ask yourself what you can do to make it better instead of complaining on a public forum.

[Warrior]

I agree with the vast minority comment, but not on leaders, but on the stories in this group. I believe the vast minority of each story has some truth. I believe the problem with your AF is the entitlement your young pilots seem to have. "This is why I got out of AMC". A good leader would suck it up, try to make it to a position where you can make these changes. Instead you run and leave your "wingman" to endure. To the vast majority complaining on this forum, reflect on your own integrity and ask yourself what you can do to make it better instead of complaining on a public forum.

Don't have time to pick apart your statement right now, so I'll go with this;

Go away.

[Champ Kind]

SEA=Chang

[Striper_WSO]

His wife isn't any better. Booze was removed from the FS bars at SJ and there are locks on the beer taps.

What? Seriously?

[brewskis]

I agree with the vast minority comment, but not on leaders, but on the stories in this group. I believe the vast minority of each story has some truth. I believe the problem with your AF is the entitlement your young pilots seem to have. "This is why I got out of AMC". A good leader would suck it up, try to make it to a position where you can make these changes. Instead you run and leave your "wingman" to endure. To the vast majority complaining on this forum, reflect on your own integrity and ask yourself what you can do to make it better instead of complaining on a public forum.