What's wrong with the Air Force?

[DirkDiggler]

15 hours ago, Swizzle said:

 

 

Article states he got an MC-130J formation flyover, huh. 

Of course he did.  You think a new Wg/CC is gonna say no to a LtGen that was just recently his boss?  The only thing that would’ve stopped that is a full on war with China, and maybe not even then.

[Swizzle]

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/photos-air-force-football-afsoc-uniforms

Another motto is quiet professionals?

"In good times people want to advertise; in bad times they have to" - Bruce Barton

“Any damn fool can put on a deal, but it takes genius, faith, and perseverance to create a brand.” - David Ogilvy

 

What of late is the AFSOC brand? Thoughts?

[Magellan]

12 hours ago, Swizzle said:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/photos-air-force-football-afsoc-uniforms

Another motto is quiet professionals?

"In good times people want to advertise; in bad times they have to" - Bruce Barton

“Any damn fool can put on a deal, but it takes genius, faith, and perseverance to create a brand.” - David Ogilvy

 

What of late is the AFSOC brand? Thoughts?

Not Applicable in the high end near peer fight if you ask anyone outside of AFSOC.

[jice]

26 minutes ago, Magellan said:

Not Applicable in the high end near peer fight if you ask anyone outside of AFSOC.

You’re not asking the right people outside of AFSOC.

[brabus]

8 hours ago, Magellan said:

Not Applicable in the high end near peer fight if you ask anyone outside of AFSOC.

What’s not applicable? Special Operations?

Edited August 16 by brabus

[SocialD]

On 8/9/2024 at 6:49 AM, Sua Sponte said:

If he got an IG complaint, SAF/IG is an entity that will force him to retire if it’s substantiated.  They were the ones whose report got the USAFA Commandant of Cadets (Lesbian B-2 pilot) fired a few years ago since she’s apparently retarded and doesn’t know how abuse of power and GTCs work. 

 

 

I can't remember, what did she do, buy a Suburu Outback with her GTC? 

Edited August 16 by SocialD

[tac airlifter]

10 hours ago, Magellan said:

Not Applicable in the high end near peer fight if you ask anyone outside of AFSOC.

Whoever answered you that way is shortsighted.  It's true the command is experiencing an identity crisis, as is SOCOM so trickle down is natural.  And it's true GWOT TTPs were crafted with uncontested airspace assumptions
 
But an aggressive, creative and risk accepting culture (which thrives in AFSOC despite attempts to squash it) will always be relevant in every fight.  And there are many exciting COAs just waiting for circumstances befitting their use. 

[Majestik Møøse]

US (proudly): “We’ve organized our entire military to fight an air/sea war in the Taiwan Straits!”

Opponents: “OK, then we’ll fight you somewhere else in some other way.”

US: “…you can’t do that we got rid of the other shit.”

[Sua Sponte]

On 8/16/2024 at 5:44 AM, SocialD said:

 

 

I can't remember, what did she do, buy a Suburu Outback with her GTC? 

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/11/22/ig-found-former-academy-commandant-misused-travel-had-poor-command-climate-she-will-seek-redress-for-firing/

[DirkDiggler]

On 8/15/2024 at 8:36 PM, Magellan said:

Not Applicable in the high end near peer fight if you ask anyone outside of AFSOC.

I think the better way to state this is SOCOM/AFSOC aren't the main show in the high end near peer fight.

  This whole "identity crisis" or whatever you want to call it that SOCOM and AFSOC are currently going through is kinda amusing to me.  For the from '01 to '21 SOCOM was the show, budgets were huge, and the command grew quite a bit.  It was also made very clear to me a as young guy, when asked what our mission was while we were simultaneously supporting OEF/OIF/GWOT, that the correct answer was "to do what the fuck we're told to do", and your job was to find a way to make it happen.

  I've heard the phrase "maintain relevance" thrown around quite a bit by senior guys in AFSOC this last year.  What they really mean is they're worried our budgets will shrink because we're not leading the charge on night one into China/Russia.

  AFSOC's part in the high end near peer fight right of bang is limited for a multitude of reasons.  IMO, AFSOC will be in a supporting role, which historically is where SOF usually existed prior to 2001.  There's absolutely things we can contribute to that fight, the discussion of most of them exceed the classification of this forum.  But the idea that we're going to be a main LOE is pretty silly with our current equipment.

  We have tons to contribute left of bang, and the C-VEO fight isn't going away anytime soon.  There's also a ton of smart, motivated people working to find ways for AFSOC to support the high-end fight.  I think AFSOC/SOCOM needs to calm down a bit with the "identity crisis" thing.

[jice]

2 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

  I've heard the phrase "maintain relevance" thrown around quite a bit by senior guys in AFSOC this last year.  What they really mean is they're worried our budgets will shrink because we're not leading the charge on night one into China/Russia.

 

The “maintain relevance” words should make the hair on the back of necks stand up when folks hear it in their organizations.

Seen it in at least two communities as they entered a death spiral.

If your advantages are not self-evident to people within the org, you’ve lost the ball years ago and failed to recognize it.

At that point, it’s time to reset entirely; square one mission analysis to determine whether comparative advantages still exist and finding greener pastures for most of the leaders representing the majority ‘generational’  demographic. 

Edited August 17 by jice
Words

[Magellan]

On 8/15/2024 at 11:04 PM, jice said:

You’re not asking the right people outside of AFSOC.

You mean the people that are just trying to keep Gen. Slife happy, or are acolytes of his but not currently in AFSOC?

The reality is I can seek confirmation bias from any pocket of the Air Force at any level.  Great Power Competition is the reality we need to embrace.  We pulled out of the GWOT on terror, and it didn't end it just shifted fronts to Israel.  Because the bad actors in that region that want to destroy the west, western values, anyone that isn't a Islamic fundamentalist just shifted to the next closest target.

Also, the foreign policy disaster of stopping Saudi from fighting the Iranian (Houthi) proxies in Yemen was idiotic from a Real Politik stand point. There are still a lot of fights in the world were AFSOC is the best game in town, but we aren't playing any more to the extent we were.

[Lawman]

I think the better way to state this is SOCOM/AFSOC aren't the main show in the high end near peer fight.
  This whole "identity crisis" or whatever you want to call it that SOCOM and AFSOC are currently going through is kinda amusing to me.  For the from '01 to '21 SOCOM was the show, budgets were huge, and the command grew quite a bit.  It was also made very clear to me a as young guy, when asked what our mission was while we were simultaneously supporting OEF/OIF/GWOT, that the correct answer was "to do what the we're told to do", and your job was to find a way to make it happen.
  I've heard the phrase "maintain relevance" thrown around quite a bit by senior guys in AFSOC this last year.  What they really mean is they're worried our budgets will shrink because we're not leading the charge on night one into China/Russia.
  AFSOC's part in the high end near peer fight right of bang is limited for a multitude of reasons.  IMO, AFSOC will be in a supporting role, which historically is where SOF usually existed prior to 2001.  There's absolutely things we can contribute to that fight, the discussion of most of them exceed the classification of this forum.  But the idea that we're going to be a main LOE is pretty silly with our current equipment.
  We have tons to contribute left of bang, and the C-VEO fight isn't going away anytime soon.  There's also a ton of smart, motivated people working to find ways for AFSOC to support the high-end fight.  I think AFSOC/SOCOM needs to calm down a bit with the "identity crisis" thing.

It seems leadership and money people confuse the concepts of size/line of effort and don’t understand the criticality of effort or the phases of conflict it exists in.

It’s like the Gulf War I example, conventional fixed wing aviation was undoubtedly the first main line of effort on night 1 of the war. But without AFSOF, a handful of stealth aircraft and Army attack, that line of effort would have waiting indefinitely for that window to open. That doesn’t even mention what was being done by SOF to shape the battlefield for the air war started so all that ass could get to where it was needed. Those big metal shapes at specific Nav points didn’t emplace themselves, SOF did it.

Everybody wants to go see the rock concert, but nobody wants to acknowledge the bus drivers and crew that get the band on stage. They may not be the one making the music, but it’s pretty damn important to the concert happening.


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[DirkDiggler]

1 hour ago, Lawman said:

It seems leadership and money people confuse the concepts of size/line of effort and don’t understand the criticality of effort or the phases of conflict it exists in.

It’s like the Gulf War I example, conventional fixed wing aviation was undoubtedly the first main line of effort on night 1 of the war. But without AFSOF, a handful of stealth aircraft and Army attack, that line of effort would have waiting indefinitely for that window to open. That doesn’t even mention what was being done by SOF to shape the battlefield for the air war started so all that ass could get to where it was needed. Those big metal shapes at specific Nav points didn’t emplace themselves, SOF did it.

Everybody wants to go see the rock concert, but nobody wants to acknowledge the bus drivers and crew that get the band on stage. They may not be the one making the music, but it’s pretty damn important to the concert happening.


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Exactly

[brabus]

SOCOM, including AFSPECWAR, is playing an active and important part in EUCOM and PACOM, it just doesn’t look exactly the same as the last 20+ years in CENTCOM. It’s crazy I know about this as an outsider to AFSOC, but apparently leadership within AFSOC doesn’t know what their own people/immediate joint partners across SOCOM are doing today. How are they that clueless?

[Lawman]

SOCOM, including AFSPECWAR, is playing an active and important part in EUCOM and PACOM, it just doesn’t look exactly the same as the last 20+ years in CENTCOM. It’s crazy I know about this as an outsider to AFSOC, but apparently leadership within AFSOC doesn’t know what their own people/immediate joint partners across SOCOM are doing today. How are they that clueless?

I think it’s more likely they don’t feel their efforts are public enough to ensure the next Star/assignment of choice over one of the other important people.


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[jice]

6 hours ago, Magellan said:

You mean the people that are just trying to keep Gen. Slife happy, or are acolytes of his but not currently in AFSOC?

The reality is I can seek confirmation bias from any pocket of the Air Force at any level.  Great Power Competition is the reality we need to embrace.  We pulled out of the GWOT on terror, and it didn't end it just shifted fronts to Israel.  Because the bad actors in that region that want to destroy the west, western values, anyone that isn't a Islamic fundamentalist just shifted to the next closest target.

Also, the foreign policy disaster of stopping Saudi from fighting the Iranian (Houthi) proxies in Yemen was idiotic from a Real Politik stand point. There are still a lot of fights in the world were AFSOC is the best game in town, but we aren't playing any more to the extent we were.

I mean the people telling you that haven’t read a plan and need to retire. Go talk to an any-service human in a Joint 5, and you’ll walk away with plenty of problems for AFSOC to solve. 

[brabus]

@Lawman Good call - now it all makes sense. 

[Sua Sponte]

Worked on the Vette today at USAFA’s Auto Hobby Shop. Saw Fat Tony’s picture hanging up in the shop and asked the mechanic if he’s met him. He rolled his eyes and said he had and that “he hates being called the Supt.” I told him. Just call him Fat Tony.

[CaptainMorgan]

Worked on the Vette today at USAFA’s Auto Hobby Shop. Saw Fat Tony’s picture hanging up in the shop and asked the mechanic if he’s met him. He rolled his eyes and said he had and that “he hates being called the Supt.” I told him. Just call him Fat Tony.

Nice ride!


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[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Nice ride!


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Thanks man, I love it! I do wish the C8s came in manuals. 

[ClearedHot]

Air Force Academy restricted all cadets to base as classes started, leading to meat shortages

The fact that this horrible human has not been fired MANY times is the perfect indicator of the toxic cancer that flows through some of our senior leadership.

[Sua Sponte]

5 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Air Force Academy restricted all cadets to base as classes started, leading to meat shortages

The fact that this horrible human has not been fired MANY times is the perfect indicator of the toxic cancer that flows through some of our senior leadership.

To be fair no military academy, or college for that matter, really ever has a “meat” shortage. 

[xaarman]

 

13 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Air Force Academy restricted all cadets to base as classes started, leading to meat shortages

The fact that this horrible human has not been fired MANY times is the perfect indicator of the toxic cancer that flows through some of our senior leadership.

Gavin Marks was an idiot Commander. Glad to see his career is also sunsetting at the USAFA. 

[dream big]

1 hour ago, xaarman said:

 

Gavin Marks was an idiot Commander. Glad to see his career is also sunsetting at the USAFA. 

Is it though? Supt is a sunset position but almost every commandant has gone on, both Clark and Moga were commandant and then went on to be 3rd AF/CC.