PJs and Operation Bulldog Bite

[rescue]

This is a great story in ADN about PJs serving in OEF, recounting one day during Operation Bulldog Bite. It was a phenomenal story to hear first hand, and the ADN reporter actually did a good job. This is what should be in the press, not some all-female crew flying a KC-10. Makes me wonder if any shoes at Bagram had any clue what was going on outside the wire while this was going down...

ADN Article

[StoleIt]

And not a reflective belt in sight...one must wonder how they were ever able to do their mission without such essential gear.

/sarcasm

But seriously...crazy read. Utmost respect to PJ's and Pedro's.

[Jake_65_65]

The Kadena guys were awarded their third straight Jolly Green Award for this mission. Along with the Alaska PJs they have set an example that should be followed.

[Guest]

If you don't fly choppers you're just a damn pussy. Period.

[SCRIMP]

While this is a pretty incredible event, the Pedros are doing missions everyday that 90% (minus some CAF dudes and our EOD bros) of the AF would call insane. We continue to do this with busted ass equipment. If you pay close attention to the article, they don't fly with armor in their AO for several reasons. According to this article (which I think is being generous)...

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/08/air-force-pave-hawks-keep-in-air-082011w/

…we are at a 57% mission capable rate. You can guarantee that 99% of that 57% is in the deployed environment.

This article, the MX availability during our most recent ORE, the insane cracks all along the helo, the blood and bullet holes should send some pen flares up Congressional asses. I don't know what it is going to take to get us some new iron, but something is going to give pretty soon....and unfortunately I would bet on people's lives.

Good on the dudes in this article. They have balls beyond measure. It is a tough for all involved bringing home men under flags. Hopefully we can continue to set the bar high and highlight the need for drastic improvement/rapid replacement of our Rescue Helicopters.

Cheers to the MFCEOs of Rescue/Red-headed step child of the AF! Keep it up!!

PS. Why can't the tattoo guy show up when I am out there?

[Breckey]

And yet the air force tries to glorify the non-"warriors". They have a perfect example for others to follow hacking the mish right now across all ranks for airmen to emulate but they still try and ignore their accomplishments.

Break Break

Along the same lines, our Huey fleet is getting worn out as well. Although they don't have the bullet holes and structural cracks that the Hawks do, some are reaching upwards of 15k hours on an airframe the shakes like a martini mixer. We need CVLSP and the 60-recap much sooner rather than later.

[Majestik Møøse]

This is what should be in the press, not some all-female crew flying a KC-10.

True, but I would guess, based solely on the number of replies to the Gucci Girls thread, that Baseops readers would much rather bitch and complain about silly PR stories than applaud guys that are cooler than them! I will do both.

While this is a pretty incredible event, the Pedros are doing missions everyday that 90% (minus some CAF dudes and our EOD bros) of the AF would call insane.

I am none of the above but I'd love to be doing this. As a KC-10 pilot I have no chance of cross-training so I hope run across the opportunity to steal a helicopter someday. Preferably from a foreign country as part of a daring escape like in the movies. That would be more likely.

[Prosuper]

While this is a pretty incredible event, the Pedros are doing missions everyday that 90% (minus some CAF dudes and our EOD bros) of the AF would call insane. We continue to do this with busted ass equipment. If you pay close attention to the article, they don't fly with armor in their AO for several reasons. According to this article (which I think is being generous)...

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/08/air-force-pave-hawks-keep-in-air-082011w/

…we are at a 57% mission capable rate. You can guarantee that 99% of that 57% is in the deployed environment.

This article, the MX availability during our most recent ORE, the insane cracks all along the helo, the blood and bullet holes should send some pen flares up Congressional asses. I don't know what it is going to take to get us some new iron, but something is going to give pretty soon....and unfortunately I would bet on people's lives.

Good on the dudes in this article. They have balls beyond measure. It is a tough for all involved bringing home men under flags. Hopefully we can continue to set the bar high and highlight the need for drastic improvement/rapid replacement of our Rescue Helicopters.

Cheers to the MFCEOs of Rescue/Red-headed step child of the AF! Keep it up!!

PS. Why can't the tattoo guy show up when I am out there?

I thought there was a plan to go around the normal procurement process underway and buy UH-60M's from the Army so we could get them quick without going through the RFP's and contractor delays,markups and customer changes.

[FlyingToaster]

I thought there was a plan to go around the normal procurement process underway and buy UH-60M's from the Army so we could get them quick without going through the RFP's and contractor delays,markups and customer changes.

If you're referring to the CVLSP, there was, hence tacking the word "common" on the front. Unfortunately it would appear a contractor (take your pick, my guess is EADS/AW) caught wind and wanted a piece of the pie. Maybe someone could explain the difference between an RFP and RFI, but somehow it looks like that "need" for a bidding process spilled over into the HH-60G recap as well-

https://www.shephard.co.uk/news/rotorhub/usaf-releases-hh-60-recap-rfi/9692/

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=d2ae69629b4ff8b952201d70857f8929&tab=core&_cview=1

That pushes the contract award date out to 2013 and the IOC of only 8 new aircraft to 2018. Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of a "recap" and remove any reasoning for a new CSAR-X? Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with the latter, but wasn't the whole point to get new helos ASAP for the guys who are/have been downrange for the last 10 years?

Edited August 23, 2011 by FlyingToaster

[Breckey]

The CVLSP is to replace the Huey fleet. It has been on-again-off again for the last 20 years. The thought after the CSAR-X cancellation is that the AF could replace the Huey fleet with a 60M and the -60 recap could be replaced with a 60M. This would enable only one pipeline for the studs at KIKR and would enable cross-flow between all AF helo assignments. Sounds great in theory but the AF would find some way to ###### it up.

Plus in my uneducated view, a 60M would be settling for the CSAR platform. Better to get something like the H-72 or the H-92 with more powerful engines and more cabin area. Then again, any new platform that doesn't have structural cracks would be a step up from our current -60 fleet.

[Prosuper]

Hate to say it but it looks like it is going to take something tragic to happen and a bunch of guys in the community talking to the press by embarrassing our leadership to act, resign, or be sacked. As long as your mx dudes are performing miracles to keep you flying its not going to happen soon. Why did the MH-53's get shit canned, I know they are mx pigs but would they have been more suited to the high elevations the Pedros work in? Maybe they can take money from the reflective belt NAF band funds.

[Breckey]

The official reason that the Pave Low got canned was high MX costs and old technology. Talking to former pilots and crew, the reason was the Army. Since the 1980's when the Pave Low transferred to AFSOC, the Army wanted it. They made the case that special ops was their business with the SOAR but the AF was able to make justifications to keep it so it stayed. Finally in 05-06ish the Army brass was able to pull enough clot to retire it.

Hearsay, but considering the last of the Pave Low IV mods were done in the late 90's, it was still a very capable platform.

[Standby]

Hearsay, but considering the last of the Pave Low IV mods were done in the late 90's, it was still a very capable platform.

They are still good enough for the Corps...

Edited August 23, 2011 by Standby

[Guest]

While this is a pretty incredible event, the Pedros are doing missions everyday that 90% (minus some CAF dudes and our EOD bros) of the AF would call insane. We continue to do this with busted ass equipment. If you pay close attention to the article, they don't fly with armor in their AO for several reasons.

Like I said...

[busdriver]

I thought there was a plan to go around the normal procurement process underway and buy UH-60M's from the Army so we could get them quick without going through the RFP's and contractor delays,markups and customer changes.

Re-cap (goal to replace all airframes 1 for 1) has become a bid process, which means acquisitions will probably fuck it up. Just buying new and lightly modded 60M's to replace lost iron is a different program, it's goal it to replace aircraft lost to combat operations and get us back to our original numbers. Keep in mind we're talking mid double digits for active duty airframes.

EDIT to add: These things we do that others may live

Edited August 25, 2011 by busdriver

[TheGuardGuy]

Some CA ANG Pedros get recognized.

https://www.ng.mil/ne...California.aspx

Edited November 23, 2011 by TheGuardGuy

[Guest CAVEMAN]

The official reason that the Pave Low got canned was high MX costs and old technology. Talking to former pilots and crew, the reason was the Army. Since the 1980's when the Pave Low transferred to AFSOC, the Army wanted it. They made the case that special ops was their business with the SOAR but the AF was able to make justifications to keep it so it stayed. Finally in 05-06ish the Army brass was able to pull enough clot to retire it.

Hearsay, but considering the last of the Pave Low IV mods were done in the late 90's, it was still a very capable platform.

Really?? I thought it was because there was a plan to replace the Pave Love with Osprey's? Yes, the Pave Low's were in fact old.

[Breckey]

There was a plan to supplement but not fully replace. As late as 00-01 timeframe there were initial plans for a Pave Low V. The full Opsrey solution only came about when the end of the Pave was not able to be averted.

[pcola]

If you don't fly choppers you're just a damn pussy. Period.

Uh, yeah, well, I work at Initech and I don't consider myself a pussy, okay?

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I just got back from visiting PEDRO ops in OEF...I was impressed. As a former MEDEVAC pilot, I'm honored to have been around the rescue/Dustoff community at some point in my career. Watched them scramble to pick up some wounded...they were gone in a flash and had the patient at the hospital in no time.

Ironically, one of the pilots told me he got chiefed the other day by some shoe who called him out on his LED light...no shit.

[Day Man]

Uh, yeah, well, I work at Initech and I don't consider myself a , okay?

I am also not a poosy.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

The shit I've seen those PEDROs deal with...I'd agree with Rainman...no one else in the USAF flying community has a riskier mission right now.

[Guest]

Uh, yeah, well, I work at Initech and I don't consider myself a pussy, okay?

Ironically, one of the pilots told me he got chiefed the other day by some shoe who called him out on his LED light...no shit.

I hope he totally ignored him and kept on walking.

[RescueRandy]

I just got back from visiting PEDRO ops in OEF...I was impressed. As a former MEDEVAC pilot, I'm honored to have been around the rescue/Dustoff community at some point in my career. Watched them scramble to pick up some wounded...they were gone in a flash and had the patient at the hospital in no time.

Our records from the Kandahar AO a la last summer:

Fastest time from crew rest to airborne: 7 minutes.

Fastest time from 9-line to pickup: 2 minutes (we were already airborne).

Fastest save (from 9-line to drop-off at med facility): 9 minutes.

This is what happens after 200+ CASEVAC missions in a four-month rotation on a 1:1 (or less) dwell. One of our flight engineers just pinned on his Air Medal, 29th Oak Leaf Cluster. For those playing the home game, that's 600 combat missions. We stopped counting support sorties in Afghanistan like FCFs (which are numerous in a helo) and what few training sorties we get because we just didn't think it was fair.

Anyway, admittedly, I'm still impressed by what our brothers do every day. Unfortunately, they are despite big blue's influence on the way we do business; not because of that influence. SCRIMP is 100% correct in his assessment of the situation for our rescue fleet.

Ironically, one of the pilots told me he got chiefed the other day by some shoe who called him out on his LED light...no shit.

It happens to everybody, and regardless of who it is... they still have to live with being shoe clerks. F@#$% 'em.

Hate to say it but it looks like it is going to take something tragic to happen and a bunch of guys in the community talking to the press by embarrassing our leadership to act, resign, or be sacked.

You mean like Pedro 66? Just sayin'....

As long as your mx dudes are performing miracles to keep you flying its not going to happen soon.

True. These guys keep us flying every day so that Combat Rescue can SAVE LIVES, and unless the chief is asking, it's not always by the T.O.

If you don't fly choppers you're just a damn ######. Period.

While scholars maintain this to be proven fact, in then end, it's not about having balls, or a conspicuous lack thereof. These things we do... so that an American (or Brit, or Canadian, or Aussie, you name it) soldier can go home to his family... alive.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Hella-Copters

[Guest]

It happens to everybody, and regardless of who it is... they still have to live with being shoe clerks. F@#$% 'em.

While scholars maintain this to be proven fact, in then end, it's not about having balls, or a conspicuous lack thereof.

Ignore him children, yes it is about having balls.

99.69% of the people in the USAF, including fighter pilots, will never see or hear an enemy gun fire. They will not know what it really feels like to really be shot at. They will not see blood.

Helo crews see these things every day.

These things we do... so that an American (or Brit, or Canadian, or Aussie, you name it) soldier can go home to his family... alive.

Word.

Best mission in the USAF.