PJs and Operation Bulldog Bite

[busdriver]

Best mission in the USAF.

No doubt

[RescueRandy]

Ignore him children, yes it is about having balls.

99.69% of the people in the USAF, including fighter pilots, will never see or hear an enemy gun fire. They will not know what it really feels like to really be shot at. They will not see blood.

Helo crews see these things every day.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Hella-Copters

[stract]

I posted this in another thread, but it's definitely more appropriate here...

[brock]

At least Pedro gets to fly with guns. Give Big blue some credit for that. The Army is still caught in the past with it's medevac doctrine.

[Breckey]

Speaking of that, Michael Yon wrote a bunch of stories on a MEDEVAC failure that he witnessed in September. Give great kudos and praise to the Pedros.

https://www.michaelyon-online.com/red-air-americas-medevac-failure.htm

[spaceman]

Speaking of that, Michael Yon wrote a bunch of stories on a MEDEVAC failure that he witnessed in September. Give great kudos and praise to the Pedros.

https://www.michaelyo...vac-failure.htm

Man, what a shame. How frustrating!

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Bureaucracy and politics does a lot to hamper our own effort. There's absolutely no reason why a soldier that's barely two dozen miles from a major airfield should have to wait over an hour to get picked up given all the assets that are there on hand...

[brock]

There have been some positive changes to the Medevac community over the last few years , but obviously more needs to change. After I returned from OEF in 09 I attended the Medical Evacution Conference. Two of the biggest points of contention were, getting rid of the redcross and making all flight medics EMT-P ( paramedics). When we confronted the MSC laedership and asked why Pedro was operating without the redcross and weapons. They essentially denied that it was happening. MSC officers are the most territorial lot I've every know. They see the redcross as their security planket to keep those aircraft under their control. That article was dead on with that. As a guard unit, over 90% of our medics are paramedics. Some our RN's and 18D types ( SF medic ). The survival rate amongst our saves was to high to ingnore. Next year all Army flight medics will be trained to the paramedic standard.

While deployed we launched about as fast or faster than the times Hella-Copter stated above. But that is a guard unit where 4000 hr. PIC's was not uncommon. The article probably should have read " Bureaucracy Fails" becuase that is about the only thing that ever keeps medevac from launching. Not the crews.

The part of the article that was laughable was the part about Army aircraft not being to able to fly some missions. For anyone who's flown Medevac, Army or Air Force knows the difference on limitations of UH60L/M and HH-60G. The L and the M have power for days. The G, not so much. Not to take anything away from the Pedro's. But it seems like there is this notion of Army Medevac turing down the hard missions. Medevac crews have their share of Silver Stars, DFC's and even a 14 German Gold Crosses for Valor. The second highest German medal.

[john]

i just recently heard some of the dustoff guys here at bagram talking about the red cross and guns. the general thought is that as soon as it the guns go on and red cross come off they will be immediately retasked and no longer dedicated to medevac.

dustoff guys are no joke. they are willing to go anywhere even without the armor and 50 cals we carry.

[Guest]

dustoff guys are no joke. they are willing to go anywhere

[HiFlyer]

i just recently heard some of the dustoff guys here at bagram talking about the red cross and guns. the general thought is that as soon as it the guns go on and red cross come off they will be immediately retasked and no longer dedicated to medevac.

As I recall from my Vietnam days, this was the exact reason our guys kept the Red Cross on their Dustoffs. With the cross on the side, they couldn't carry grunts, guns and ammo; if they took it off, the Aviation Bde leadership saw them as just another bird to carry stuff.

Edited November 30, 2011 by HiFlyer

[RescueRandy]

As I recall from my Vietnam days, this was the exact reason our guys kept the Red Cross on their Dustoffs. With the cross on the side, they couldn't carry grunts, guns and ammo; if they took it off, the Aviation Bde leadership saw them as just another bird to carry stuff.

We get the same requests to haul ass and trash, be it at home-station, in Iraq or Afghanistan. We've done the odd Emergency Aerial Movement Request (EAMR) to deliver food/water/ammo and we've also be asked to do CCA; but the reality is that it's not our mission, plain and simple. Unfortunately, the buck has to stop somewhere and, for the Pedros, it's the CFACC. If the CFACC directs that the Pedros will haul, then the Pedros will haul but the CFACC has to weigh the risks and rewards. 99.69% of the time, the alert takes priority and the answer for those requests is an emphatic "no."

If Dustoff loses the Red Cross and rolls more like the Pedros, then their leadership (be it the Bde Cdr or the Med Geeks) need to also be willing to make those decisions. Right now, the only thing the red crosses are doing is limiting their flexibility in a war where the enemy couldn't care less about the Geneva Conventions.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I briefly flew Dustoff back in the 90s (UH-1Vs for the 812th Med Co, hence my screen name). I'll second that Dustoff crews will go to Hell and back to get the guys to a hospital. Most of the dudes I flew with were CW4s near retirement age that flew Dustoff in Vietnam, and they often got shot to shit...but despite not having guns, they went anyways.

In this ex-Dustoff's opinion...the Red Cross should only be applied to rear echelon MEDEVAC assets (like the UH-72)...aircraft that won't likely see combat and have no reason to be armed anyway. Any aircraft flying into an LZ on a modern battlefield in today's world should lose the red cross and put up some guns...it's not about playing the GC card and being politically correct...it's about saving our bros on the ground.

[brock]

The bottom line with both of these communities is that they will do whatever it takes to get you. Their respective services should do the same for them.

I'd like to see the Army empower the flight crews a little more and get rid of the cross. Better training is on the way but that has been an uphill battle.

Although I'm not that familar with RQS community, I do know they recieve some pretty top notch training. I fly with a few former PJ's and I know their pipline is no joke. What the Air Force needs to do next is get them some new aircraft. Just becuase they aren't going cross FLOT to get a downed aircrew doesn't mean it won't happen.