No 1 Reason

[Guest What?]

For those of you who've been through UPT, in your experience, what's the number 1 reason people washout of UPT? Someone has probably posted this question already, but I've been looking around and wasn't able to find it.

Thanks

[JS]

I am not an expert, and I probably should be studying right now instead of surfing the internet (or I may be likely to wash out), but here goes:

I don't think you can really pin it down to a single reason. I am not an IP, but I have seen a few guys wash out mostly for the same thing - inability to learn and/or stay ahead of the jet to be safe and proficient (I guess that is like 3 reasons). The truth is that it really takes a lot to get forcibly washed out these days. You need to hook like 3 daily rides and go on CAP (flying probation), which means that not only are you hooking rides, but you have manifested to the IP's that you are not studying/trying hard enough, hence the reason you get put on CAP. Next you will probably go through an 86 ride (freebie) to try and catch up or to move onto the next block. If you hook that, you will move onto an 88 ride, which is basically a pre-elimination ride. If you are unlucky or bad enough to hook that, you go onto an 89 elimination ride. Most people hook 86, 88, and 89 rides because they are unable to accept instruction. Part of hooking so many rides may also be due a lack of ability to coordinate your brain and hands to stay ahead of the jet and get all the things done at the speed you need to.

Bottom line, you literally have to hook like 5 or 6 rides in a row to get thrown out (hooking a checkride sends you directly to an 88 ride, but they will usually hook you before your checkride if you are not ready, hence giving you the extra remake ride and possible 86 ride before an 88). We had a guy in this situation who went to an 89 ride and passed. Later on he somehow made it back to another 89 ride and passed. He struggled but kept working hard and made it through.

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. After you hook an 89 ride, you go before a board and try to convince the CC that you really just had a bad day (or 5 bad days in a row) and that you really possess the skills to finish the program. So you get another change to not wash out.

I don't know if I answered your question or if I just gave you a dissertation on the elimination process, but I would have to say that having a poor attitude, not accepting instruction, and constantly being behind the jet (perhaps due to lack of natural talent) are the reasons why people wash out.

[ 04. November 2004, 14:55: Message edited by: JS ]

[Guest JK73703]

I personally have only known two guys who have washed out of UPT. The first guy (easiest one to explain) was during the contact phase of T-38’s. This guy did well in tweets but just couldn’t land the T-38. After hooking a couple of rides for not being able to land, our flight commander sent him to the flight Doc to see if it had anything to do with his eyes. Sure enough, he failed his depth perception test and was immediately put on hold and sent to Brooks. The doctors at Brooks agreed with his flight Doc and he was never able to get a waiver or be reinstated into training (by the way…this whole process took about six months). The funny part about this story is…while he was at the Academy the doctors knew about his condition and let him go to UPT anyway. Why he was sent to UPT is beyond me, and how he was able to safely land the tweet (and land it well) is even more of a mystery.

The second guy washed out for lack of the mental aptitude required to succeed at UPT. He was a little slower then the rest of us, but apparently had good hands. It was basically a combination of bad study habits/techniques, and not being able to grasp information and assimilate it quickly enough. As far as poor study habits go, he only liked to study in a group environment and would very rarely study on his own. Group study is great and very useful if you do it correctly. By this I mean only study with a few people and show up to the study group with a solid grasp of the material. However, his group study experiences would consist of way too many people ( 5-7 guys who would usually end up sitting around BSing for a couple of hours), and not showing up knowing the material, but rather showing up expecting the rest of the group to teach him what he should already know. These study issues were brought to his attention several times, but he was never able to get out of his routine which I believe was a major contributor to his downfall. You will be able to pick these kinds of people out early on in the program. This individual struggled from day one in academics. He failed several tests in academics, and honestly we didn’t expect him to make it as far as he did. Once we hit the flight line he successfully failed every single (significant) graded event up to his instrument checkride where they finally said…see ya.

In my experience though, it’s very rare for people to wash out after track select. In T-38’s almost everyone would make it through, they didn’t all get their first choice on assignment night, but they made it through.

That’s all I’ve got, hope it helps someone,

Joe

[Guest What?]

Hey, thanks to everyone for the great responses!

Chuck:

Originally posted by ChuckFlys17s:

A lot just has to do with the pressure and time restrictions put on you at UPT. If you're not getting something, the program isnt going to slow down or come to a halt until you get it and can move on. "With enough bananas you can teach a monkey to fly." The problem is that the AF wont always wait for the monkey to learn, especially when a new class of monkeys starts every 3 weeks...

That's great advice, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

I really appreciate the feedback from everyone.

[Rocker]

I think a great way to hurt yourself is to not be prepared when you show up at the IP's desk to brief. Whether that be with a profile, GK, or just an overall mental state. Sometimes people hook a daily ride here and there and big deal, they move on. But the people I've seen here with the biggest problems don't seem to be very motivated and are kind of just making it through. No one has washed out of our class, however. I think there are plenty of people wearing silver wings out there who are not smarter than the average person. But if you have the tenacity to hang on, motivate yourself, study, and make sure you're prepared for stuff all or most of the time, you'll probably make it through. It's not easy, but I also found that there's a lot of hype surrounding the program. It's still a military training program and caters to a certain degree to people who may not "get it" as quickly as others. But keeping your fecal matter consolidated and being sharp go a long way here. One tip - never be self-depricating. Don't call yourself stupid or say you suck or anything like that. Though you might be joking, it's not the way to be and can actually affect you after a while. I say that because I see it happen all the time, and I think it actually causes harm over time. Others might think this is a strange, obscure thing to write about, but I think it's important. Confidence (and humility) also goes a long way here.