Tuition Assistance Cuts

[raimius]

4. Ppl whine for years about having to get a worthless masters, then we make a step towards relieving the requirement and now everyone likes their crap degree! Stop the madness!

Do you really think the AF will decide to disregard masters completion just because they won't pay for part of it anymore?

[Rusty Pipes]

2. If you vote conservative and are whining about this govt handout ending, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Don't worry... illegals will still be getting in-state tuition in CA while the guy who spent 15 1/2 years away from his family at war (read deployed) will be shown the door for not having his Embry Riddle degree when he gets passed over for O-5 in a few years. Yeah, that's pretty much the same, right?

[Stank]

1. Don't get too angry/excited. It'll be back soon.

2. If you vote conservative and are whining about this govt handout ending, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

3. The AF needs a certain number of O-4's. They will likely select them in a somewhat skewed manner, TA or not. Try not to suck at life, you'll have as good (or lousy) a chance as anyone else.

4. Ppl whine for years about having to get a worthless masters, then we make a step towards relieving the requirement and now everyone likes their crap degree! Stop the madness!

Where to begin, where to begin?

1. Maybe

2. This is hardly a government handout. The USAF views PME and Masters degrees as necessary to develop a professional officer corps. That they execute that task poorly is irrelevant. The bottom line is that obtaining a master's degree is, for 99% of us, a requirement for retention in our chosen career. Not even close to some of government's low hanging fruits, like farm bills or NPR.

3. Try not to suck at life? That's your recipe for promotion? You just offended a lot of passed-over dudes who may not have had a few boxes checked but definitely did not suck at life. That's the whole big gripe here: the system sucks at identifying real talent and leadership and instead favors shoe clerks, execs, and kiss-asses. Now it's going to cost more.

4. How is this a step towards relieving that requirement? What makes you think a masters requirement will go away now that it costs (alot) more? No one likes their crap degree here. They hate/hated getting the crap degree and now will hate paying out the ass for it.

Couger's lost it, turned in his brain today

[HeloDude]

2. If you vote conservative and are whining about this govt handout ending, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Since I'm fiscally conservative, I'll bite:

First, I would like to know--what is the definition of a 'government handout'? If TA is a government handout, then are my flight suits a government handout as well? When I go TDY, is the gas money that is reimbursed to me a gov't handout? I could go on and on.

One of the reasons I ask, is because the Air Force has made it painfully clear in the past that it wants their officers to get a masters degree--so much that promotions/retainability are greatly affected by whether you have one or not. So it can be effectively argued that the Air Force has told us that we need a masters degree to our job (whether I agree or not). And prior to recently, leaders have told us that there is no reason we cannot obtain a masters degree, because TA more/less covers the cost. The post 9-11 GI Bill (which is actually fairly new) only becomes available to many officers at their 8-9 year mark, in which case it would be challenging to then start a degree program and finish in time prior to your O-4 Board...you know, that board that gives a lot of weight to whether we have a masters degree or not. So again, if the Air Force tells us we need a masters to compete/do our job, then it's not much different than the Air Force paying for my flight suit...get my point?

Now should the Air Force be in the business of making/paying for all of us to get Masters degrees?--I say no. I'm in agreement that I don't think it makes us better leaders, pilots, space officers, etc, and unless your job can not be completed without an advanced degree (physical therapist for example), then we don't 'need' one. But for my entire career thus far, that is not the message the Air Force has sent out (save the couple of years when AAD's were masked on the PRF). So all of a sudden budget issues have caused leadership to tell us that they were wrong/lying this whole time and that masters degrees really don't make us better leaders/better at our jobs? I'm all for that, but then they of course need to immediately mask it on PRF's and explicitly tell Sq/CC's and above that they can not even ask their folks about advanced degrees because that could unjustly influence stratifications, DP's, etc.

I'm all for the cuts man. As I have said, I think the DoD cuts should be in the form of closing bases and ending missions, but yes, get rid of TA too. But then leadership needs to change their tune, and they need to change it soon.

[Rusty Pipes]

So if an Officer or Enlisted was told by their boss that they needed to get an AAD for promotion and sold them on using TA to meet that requirement should they be released from the 2 year ADSC that came with it?

"Sorry, Amn Jenkins... I know the Chief told you that you needed to get that BAC degree and you just started your 2nd of 34 classes to get that degree, but it looks like that $750 TA just cost you another 2 yrs in the AF. Maybe we'll have TA again when you get back from Kabul next year!"

[nsplayr]

Couger's lost it, turned in his brain today

Way to work in a Top Gun reference...I lol'd.

So if an Officer or Enlisted was told by their boss that they needed to get an AAD for promotion and sold them on using TA to meet that requirement should they be released from the 2 year ADSC that came with it?

Just to play devil's advocate, no way.

You signed on to that 2-year concurrent commitment the day you took that first dollar in TA...it's in no way related to you actually finishing that degree. If you had the thought that you maybe wanted to get out in less than 2 years (and didn't have any other ADSC), you shouldn't have signed on the dotted line and accepted TA in the first place.

Edited March 12, 2013 by nsplayr

[pcola]

Whole lotta chicken littles in this thread...

Looks like the sky has fallen...

[HiFlyer]

Here's the message from the CMSgt of the AF...the sky hasn't completely fallen in yet. Note the bolded parts...

As you know, our Nation and our Air Force are working through some significant fiscal challenges. The combined effects of continuing resolution and sequestration are forcing some very tough decisions. Unfortunately we'll likely be forced to furlough nearly 180,000 civilian Airmen for 16 hours per pay period for the remainder of the fiscal year starting in April. This is one of many impacts on your units and our Airmen and Families. Given this environment we've had to make the decision to suspend military Tuition Assistance (TA) for the remainder of this fiscal year.

Effective 1700 EST, 11 March, Active Duty Airmen will no longer be able to submit requests for Tuition Assistance.

Believe me, this was a tough decision because our Air Force truly values education. This is evidenced by our requirement for a Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) degree for senior rater endorsement (SRE) eligibility. SRE means a great deal in the promotion of Master Sergeant to Senior Master Sergeant, and this will not change. We understand suspension of TA benefits makes things tougher, but there are other ways for Airmen to complete CCAF degrees. CLEP exams, the G.I. Bill, scholarships, and federal grants are some options.

We remain as committed as ever to ensuring Airmen have the opportunity and means to pursue educational goals. We're still looking at the impacts for FY14 and will do our best to have TA reinstated, although we'll likely need to review the eligibility requirements to ensure sustainability. We owe you more information on this and will provide details as soon as we can.

[zach braff]

I like that on the www.af.mil site, three articles below where it says Big Blue is cutting TA there's an article about how Anderson just saved $25 Million with their new Contamination Cleanup Concept. Why not just use that savings to fund TA for the rest of the FY?

zb

[HeloDude]

Because those are OPR bullet 'savings', not real savings.

[ThreeHoler]

Looks like the sky has fallen...

I stand by my earlier assertion.

This smacks of cutting a program that people will get vocal about and call their congresscritters and complain that they "DO SOMETHING!" Nothing more.

[vsu8992]

I stand by my earlier assertion.

This smacks of cutting a program that people will get vocal about and call their congresscritters and complain that they "DO SOMETHING!" Nothing more.

Already in progress.. Lt mafia was rapidly distro'ing form letters today. Can't wait to read the horror stories!

Sent using Tapatalk 2

[pcola]

Already in progress.. Lt mafia was rapidly distro'ing form letters today. Can't wait to read the horror stories!

Sent using Tapatalk 2

Wait, so the Lt Mafia at your base are such gluttons for punishment that they are actually begging to reinstate the principle driving force behind the "unofficial" Masters requirement? Presumably out of fear of being left behind? Tell them to look around. If they aren't funded to complete their useless Masters, nobody else is either. WTF is wrong with the AF today? Ugh.

[Fuzz]

Wait, so the Lt Shoe Clerk Mafia at your base are such gluttons for punishment that they are actually begging to reinstate the principle driving force behind the "unofficial" Masters requirement?

Just a wild guess here.

ETA: As a Lt. I would like to have TA since I want to get a masters (non-box checking one). However, if not having to waste my time and money on a BS crap masters from some degree mill means the masking AADs/refocusing on job performance, I'm happy to loose TA if it drives the change we hope for.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Scaredfuzz21

[LoneStar]

Got my email from the shirt suggesting I use my GI Bill...

[Spartacus]

I know I am going to take some spears for this but here is another point of view. I agree that the box checking masters thing is stupid and I hate the diploma mills. Yes, the whole system is/was f-ed. However, you choose where to get the degree from and when to start it. If you choose to get a worthless box checking degree with your TA and then turn around and say that it is wasting tax payer dollars then aren't you part of the problem? Aren't you taking part in the whole problem that you are complaining about? Believe me, I understand the whole being busy thing and the ridiculousness of trying to become and then stay tactically proficient while having to knock out a masters but that is part of the game that you have to play. Taking away TA does not equal getting rid of the education requirements for promotion like many enlisted people are realizing right now. You can choose to get a real degree and start it early so you only have to take one class at a time. This is doable. I am not advocating it, and I think the AF should get rid of the masters requirement and send you to get one if they want you to have one so that you can focus on tactical things, but that is not reality right now. Hopefully that changes. So, when it comes down to cutting TA I don't look at it like many of you are. There are all of the arguments that have been made but what this boils down to for me is that the government has chosen to cut a military benefit. A benefit that many people were counting on and now it is gone. A benefit that might have played a part in getting you to sign on that dotted line. So, instead of looking at it like we might not have to do masters degrees anymore I wonder what they will be willing to cut next? I have read several times recently how liberals are calling military TA welfare in a nontraditional form and how the military needs to share in the burden of getting the economy back on track. If that does not piss you off then I have nothing for you.

[Azimuth]

Wait, so the Lt Mafia at your base are such gluttons for punishment that they are actually begging to reinstate the principle driving force behind the "unofficial" Masters requirement? Presumably out of fear of being left behind? Tell them to look around. If they aren't funded to complete their useless Masters, nobody else is either. WTF is wrong with the AF today? Ugh.

How about Enlisted who were obtaining degrees?

[dream big]

I know I am going to take some spears for this but here is another point of view. I agree that the box checking masters thing is stupid and I hate the diploma mills. Yes, the whole system is/was f-ed. However, you choose where to get the degree from and when to start it. If you choose to get a worthless box checking degree with your TA and then turn around and say that it is wasting tax payer dollars then aren't you part of the problem? Aren't you taking part in the whole problem that you are complaining about? Believe me, I understand the whole being busy thing and the ridiculousness of trying to become and then stay tactically proficient while having to knock out a masters but that is part of the game that you have to play. Taking away TA does not equal getting rid of the education requirements for promotion like many enlisted people are realizing right now. You can choose to get a real degree and start it early so you only have to take one class at a time. This is doable. I am not advocating it, and I think the AF should get rid of the masters requirement and send you to get one if they want you to have one so that you can focus on tactical things, but that is not reality right now. Hopefully that changes. So, when it comes down to cutting TA I don't look at it like many of you are. There are all of the arguments that have been made but what this boils down to for me is that the government has chosen to cut a military benefit. A benefit that many people were counting on and now it is gone. A benefit that might have played a part in getting you to sign on that dotted line. So, instead of looking at it like we might not have to do masters degrees anymore I wonder what they will be willing to cut next? I have read several times recently how liberals are calling military TA welfare in a nontraditional form and how the military needs to share in the burden of getting the economy back on track. If that does not piss you off then I have nothing for you.

2,

besides, we can't really focus on our primary job since leadership will probably insert some other useless waste of time in place of all the flying hours just lost.

[Dupe]

There's always the ACSC On Line Masters Program.... have fun with that.

[Seriously]

The master's degree requirement is a crock of shit. If master's degrees actually made us better leaders and increased our effectiveness as officers and whatever your primary job is, then it should naturally show up in your performance reports.

[Shakermaker]

About when did the "mandatory" master's req make it's way into the O-4 selection process?

[billy pilgrim]

There's always the ACSC On Line Masters Program.... have fun with that.

I thought this was no more... Is it still available?

[abmwaldo]

I thought this was no more... Is it still available?

I'm currently enrolled in a class and there have been no announcements that it is going away.

[M2]

Don't worry... illegals will still be getting in-state tuition in CA while the guy who spent 15 1/2 years away from his family at war (read deployed) will be shown the door for not having his Embry Riddle degree when he gets passed over for O-5 in a few years. Yeah, that's pretty much the same, right?

As for grad degrees, yes I do believe they are important and yes I do believe that for the most part they help make people better (read: smarter) leaders. Just because some folks don't take advantage of opportunity doesn't mean the program is a bad idea. Education in any form is an investment that always pays off.

This cutting of TA is exactly what it appears, an attempt to inflict some pain and suffering within the workforce. We all know there are numerous other programs where monies could be cut with less effect, but the leadership needs something that's going to motivate people to complain. I think it's a poor tactic but that's how the game is being played currently. This forced budget situation is not going to solve any problems, nor are responses such as cutting TA; what is needed is a more and better thought-out plan on how to reduce spending over the long term. We all know it can be done without sacrificing necessary programs such as TA, but if someone actually worked within the intent and did reduce wasteful spending that didn't result in any impact on the mission then it would only lead to calls for more cuts...

[disgruntledemployee]

I was expecting this memo. It came in a proper priority of cancelling things. First was TDYs, then extraneous flying (funerals, grads, sporting events, etc.), then the T-birds/Angels season, then lots of flight hours, and now TA. The TDYs, that was internal and the public won't see it. The flyovers and demo teams, thats external for the public. Flying hours are an internal hit at readiness and a shot to Congress from our leaders in the chain of command side. TA is a hit towards Congress from the people side if we start making calls as suggested by various military membership organizations (AFA, AFSA, etc.).

However, was the TIB season cancelled?

Out

Ed: spelin

Edited March 14, 2013 by disgruntledemployee