Red Lens Test Waiver

[Razor666]

I am a Cadet at the Air Force Academy and I recently had my vision tested for pilot qualification. I passed all my tests with flying colors except the Red Lens Test which I failed. The docs told me to come back for in-depth testing of my depth perception (which is a more thorough examination then the Red Lens Test) since I failed the Red Lens Test. The depth perception test was the one with the circles etc. I passed that one with flying colors as well. The docs then retested me on the Red Lens Test at the end of the depth perception test and I failed it again. The docs said they are going to try and get a waiver for the Red Lens Test and my myopia. The docs said that I passed every vision test except the Red Lens, and when they did a more thorough exam of my depth perception due to my failure of the Red Lens (to find out if something else was going on with my eyes), I passed all those in-depth tests perfectly. So my question is, are Red Lens Tests waivers heard of and do I have a good chance of getting that waivered based upon my tests above and getting my pilot qualification? If you could answer this, or point me in the direction of someone who could give me a pretty certain answer, I'd highly appreciate it because this is obviously very important to me. If you need to know anything else in order to give me a better answer, please feel free to ask. Thanks!

[theat6bisasham]

Is this the test where he asks you "how many do you see?" and you should be saying.."one" ?

[Razor666]

The Red Lens Test is the one where they put a red lens in front of one of your eyes, then put a light in different fields of vision and ask how many lights do you see, then sometimes they take this glass and put it in front of your other eye and ask you how many do lights you see. I'm thinking it was more of a communication issue and that is what the doctors were thinking but they said they would try and get me a waiver for that test since on further examination, I'm all good. The docs never told me what I was "supposed" to see so any light shed on that one would be helpful as well. I researched as much as I could about the whole Red Lens Test waiver to but to no success that is why I'm posting my question on here. Hoping some experienced docs and pilots can give an answer to me.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Razor666

[theat6bisasham]

Friend - the answer you are looking for is "one pink light, sir". Not TWO lights, but one pinkish light. On people with problems, the two eye muscles will go off kilter and you will see TWO lights, namely a white and a red one. Normal people have good eye control and see one pinkish circle. But this is all academic....too bad you didn't see the one light and tell him that at the time.

[snoopyeast]

I'm on a waiver for failing the red lens test in addition to some other eye waivers. I had to do some other tests if I remember right. Something about one eye focusing before the other.

Edited October 24, 2011 by snoopyeast

[Razor666]

Cool, so pretty good chances of me getting a waiver for that test? Especially since I passed all the other tests I had to take because I failed the Red Lens? Thanks again for the replies!

[Guest goducks]

Friend - the answer you are looking for is "one pink light, sir". Not TWO lights, but one pinkish light. On people with problems, the two eye muscles will go off kilter and you will see TWO lights, namely a white and a red one. Normal people have good eye control and see one pinkish circle. But this is all academic....too bad you didn't see the one light and tell him that at the time.

This is completely incorrect and bad information. When the test is administered you are intermittently presented with a plano lens (clear glass) or a prism over one eye and a red lens over the other. You are not able to tell the difference between the plano lens and the prism. When the prism is in place you SHOULD see two lights- one red and one white. If you do not report this, it is considered an abnormal finding and, thus, a failure. When the plano lens is presented, then you should see a single pink light.

[Razor666]

This is completely incorrect and bad information. When the test is administered you are intermittently presented with a plano lens (clear glass) or a prism over one eye and a red lens over the other. You are not able to tell the difference between the plano lens and the prism. When the prism is in place you SHOULD see two lights- one red and one white. If you do not report this, it is considered an abnormal finding and, thus, a failure. When the plano lens is presented, then you should see a single pink light.

GODUCKS:

Thanks for that correction and info! Do you happen to know if the waiver board usually gives out waivers for a situation like this? If so, do you think I have a good chance of getting one with my predicament? I've searched through the Air Force Waiver Guide etc. and couldn't find anything that really answered that specific question. Thanks again!

[Guest goducks]

GODUCKS:

Thanks for that correction and info! Do you happen to know if the waiver board usually gives out waivers for a situation like this? If so, do you think I have a good chance of getting one with my predicament? I've searched through the Air Force Waiver Guide etc. and couldn't find anything that really answered that specific question. Thanks again!

It's impossible to answer without knowing WHY you failed. Technically, failing a red lens test is not a diagnosis. There has to be a reason you failed. If it is due to suppression or mono-fixation, then you might be eligible for a waiver if you meet other requirements. If it is due to a muscle/nerve palsy (see IV (fourth) nerve palsy) and you are truly diplopic within 30 degrees of straight-ahead viewing, then it's less likely to be waived.

Bottom line is that you would/wouldn't get a waiver for a failed red lens test. You would/wouldn't get a waiver for the etiology of the failure.

[theat6bisasham]

When they place the prisim over your eye, anyone should be able to tell they put the prisim on, and in that case the answer is TWO LIGHTS, one red, one white.

The prisim presents obvious distortion to your vision....but anyway - good luck with the medical waiver route!

[Razor666]

It's impossible to answer without knowing WHY you failed. Technically, failing a red lens test is not a diagnosis. There has to be a reason you failed. If it is due to suppression or mono-fixation, then you might be eligible for a waiver if you meet other requirements. If it is due to a muscle/nerve palsy (see IV (fourth) nerve palsy) and you are truly diplopic within 30 degrees of straight-ahead viewing, then it's less likely to be waived.

Bottom line is that you would/wouldn't get a waiver for a failed red lens test. You would/wouldn't get a waiver for the etiology of the failure.

GODUCKS:

The docs didn't really know why I failed. They were confused on how I would pass the in-depth tests that deal with depth perception and just mess up on the Red Lens. They thought it was a more of a communication issue of what I saw then anything. Because on further testing, I passed everything which ruled out possible serious other eye/depth perception issues. So they said they were just going to put in a waiver for the Red Lens Test. When I asked how successful those were etc. they just said they don't give out guarantees but "take it how it is, you passed all the other eye tests and all the in-depth eye tests to see if you truly did have a problem." I feel that if I were diplopic, they would have told me and or I would have failed the other depth perception tests. So that's ultimately where I am. I have to wait approx a full year before they start putting in my class' waivers here at the Academy. My predicament is, if I don't fly for the USAF, then I really don't know what I want to do in the Air Force. So I'm trying to research and find out as much as I can about this waiver thing so I can feel pretty confident about my chances or if things don't look good, seriously start to look at other career options. Also GODUCKS, if its okay to PM you then I'll tell you about whats going on in further detail so you can give me your professional opinion. Thanks again.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Razor666

[Guest goducks]

When they place the prisim over your eye, anyone should be able to tell they put the prisim on, and in that case the answer is TWO LIGHTS, one red, one white.

The prisim presents obvious distortion to your vision....but anyway - good luck with the medical waiver route!

A prism does not distort your vision. You don't know what the you are talking about. Thanks for the expertise.

GODUCKS:

The docs didn't really know why I failed. They were confused on how I would pass the in-depth tests that deal with depth perception and just mess up on the Red Lens. They thought it was a more of a communication issue of what I saw then anything. Because on further testing, I passed everything which ruled out possible serious other eye/depth perception issues. So they said they were just going to put in a waiver for the Red Lens Test. When I asked how successful those were etc. they just said they don't give out guarantees but "take it how it is, you passed all the other eye tests and all the in-depth eye tests to see if you truly did have a problem." I feel that if I were diplopic, they would have told me and or I would have failed the other depth perception tests. So that's ultimately where I am. I have to wait approx a full year before they start putting in my class' waivers here at the Academy. My predicament is, if I don't fly for the USAF, then I really don't know what I want to do in the Air Force. So I'm trying to research and find out as much as I can about this waiver thing so I can feel pretty confident about my chances or if things don't look good, seriously start to look at other career options. Also GODUCKS, if its okay to PM you then I'll tell you about whats going on in further detail so you can give me your professional opinion. Thanks again.

PM me anytime if you like. My thought is that a red lens failure with no basis of failure will get deferred to the Aeromedical Consultation Service (ACS) and they will figure our what is going on. I really don't think that AETC will accept the finding of a red lens failure with no idea why you failed.

The timing is difficult. You need to make career decisions now and it's out of your hands. Unfortunately, that's the system.

Best of luck.

[mp5g]

When they place the prisim over your eye, anyone should be able to tell they put the prisim on, and in that case the answer is TWO LIGHTS, one red, one white.

The prisim presents obvious distortion to your vision....but anyway - good luck with the medical waiver route!

A prism does not distort your vision. You don't know what the ###### you are talking about. Thanks for the expertise.

...

Bitch Slap. Getting the popcorn.

[slc]

PM me and i can give you some specifics if needed. Short story, I went through this 10 years ago, failed red lens test. After a 3 day eval at Brooks, they determined I had mild esophoria of the right eye, normal, normal on everything else ie 20/10 vision etc. There is a study group ongoing in the AF (several dozen of us??). If everything else checks out, they will give you a waiver, put you in the study group, and you'll have to follow up once a year taking various tests (intra-ocular pressure, Humphrey visual field test, etc.) This is done to see if the condition worsens with age. Mine was determined to be congenital (since birth).

[theat6bisasham]

Bitch Slap. Getting the popcorn.

My expertise? Passing the test....but whatever

[Mike Honcho]

A prism does not distort your vision. You don't know what the ###### you are talking about. Thanks for the expertise.

Bitch Slap. Getting the popcorn.

A USAF flight doc being a douche? Nah, never happen.

[theat6bisasham]

Lets see...flight doc being a dick and acting as if he's smarter than everyone? Check

Me trying to be a bro and help a guy out? Check

[Guest goducks]

Lets see...flight doc being a dick and acting as if he's smarter than everyone? Check

Me trying to be a bro and help a guy out? Check

A USAF flight doc being a douche? Nah, never happen.

For the last 3 years I've given nothing but accurate, honest responses in every post I've made. Take a look and tell me this isn't the truth.

Theat6bisasham: My frustration with you was because you are giving advice that will easily cause someone to fail a test when they otherwise would likely pass. Am I smarter than you? I don't know. But, I do know that I know far more about a red lens test than you. You've taken it once in your life. I've given the test probably 1,000 times. You make the call.

Mike Honcho: A USAF flight doc being a douche? No. Try a person who is willing to take his understanding of the system to try and provide accurate advice that isn't otherwise available.

I joined this forum because I've personally examined many guys who were given bad advice and made questionable decisions based on this bad advice. I wanted to provide a forum where good information could be disseminated. I'm in a position to know the standards and waiver criteria and I've been willing to take the time to make sure it was available for folks who had related questions. With attitudes like yours, I'm questioning whether this is worth my time in the future.

Why don't you two offer to moderate this forum and bless us all with your infinite wisdom.

Cheers,

GD

Edited October 29, 2011 by goducks

[Hot Dogs!]

Just a heads up, from experience, there are certain points on the grid where there will be a prism in front of your eyes but it's out of the field of view of one eye (way off to the side), so if you try to cheat and say 2 lights in that situation, you're still going to be wrong.

[latidah]

Dude...you have to be ######ing kidding me.

<incoherent rambling>

"Dude", the original poster asked about a waiver for a Red Lens test failure. Doc was giving him the absolute correct answer, which is that the test itself is not the disqualifying factor, merely an indicator of a possible underlying condition (which may or may not be waiverable). You, on the other hand, gave completely inaccurate information and is a good way to get people to fail the test in the first place. That's really helping a brother out, I guess. Doc merely called you out on it, and yet you continue this inane pissing contest. When you make it through medical school, residency and the school of aerospace medicine, please let us know and then perhaps your advice will be taken more seriously.

[Razor666]

Update: Passed the test. Asked the doc and he said my eyesight was PQ. If anyone needs help with a similar issue, feel free to message or reply to this thread.

[Extra300Driver]

Good job bro. I had to take that test this week because they forgot to administer it to me. Pretty simple test... Just checks for double vision potential.

[GearMonkey]

Update: Passed the test.

Passed the test or "passed" the test?

I don't want to pry but it could be important for future readers and, more importantly, could provide some valuable perspective on the pissing match that occurred above. Knowing if you passed because you had a better understanding of what they were asking you or because you guessed correctly about what they expected you to say would help others judge the caliber of the disparate advice provided above.

Either way congratulations. You've made it over the major hurdle (the higher weed-out standards) and it will be infinitely easier to maintain your medical clearance from now on.

[Razor666]

I legitimately passed the test. The docs put a red lens in front of one of your eyes and a clear prism in front of the other. The prism, depending on which way it is flip, will either bend the light or leave your vision normal, it is impossible to know which side the prism is on without actually being able to see the lights either grow apart or remain one of top of the other. When they are on top of each other, the red light and white light will merge to form a pinkish light. If they are basically right on top of one another, even if they are maybe a couple mm apart, say "one light." If they are really far apart, one white light a couple of inches away from one red light, say that they are "apart." That's the whole test. The reason I failed in the first place was a poor explanation on the part of the med tech. I was saying apart when they were mm apart and therefore failed. So there you go, if you have any other questions, reply to this post or send me a PM. Thanks!

[12xu2a3x3]

just did my FC1 and was told i need to go specialist for "workups" for this issue. does that mean i'm going to need a waiver? anyone elucidate?