DC Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Has anyone on here started and/or finished the ACSC OLMP? (https://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp) If so, a few questions... - What kind of work is it? A lot of reading, followed by discussion boards and paper writing? Any tests? - What's the workload of the classes? How many hours a week is required, etc? - How flexible is the program around our work schedules? I am specifically looking at the Leadership Concentration. I'm an O-3 w/ SOS in Res complete, but I'm just getting going on an AAD and it wouldn't be the end of the world to start over if it was worth it. They tried to sell it to us at SOS, but it was in the middle of a lot of other discussion and got lost in the chatter. Their website is a little sparse on the details. I asked this in the SOS/ACSC thread, but the topic was quickly changed and focused on SOS/ACSC alone and not necessarily this program, so maybe it needs its own thread.. Thanks for the info. Edited October 29, 2011 by DC
ThreeHoler Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 I would estimate around 500+ pages of reading assigned a week. The workload is totally dependent upon your ability to process a large volume of reading and distill it into salient 150-300 word discussion board posts once a week with two responses to other students. Expect a mid-term of ~800-1600 words and a final of ~2000 words. There are two of eleven courses dedicated to your research paper.0 Instructors are willing to work around TDY and other issues, but you have to talk to them before it becomes an issue. I have been able to turn in mid-terms late without penalty during my PCS as I pre-coordinated with the instructor. Most instructors are retired O-6 types. AU is shooting themselves in the foot by not better promoting the benefits of their Master's degree program. Right now, the majority of my classmates in the Warfare Concentration (Majors/full ACSC credit) are civilians. In my experience, I have seen only a handful of officers, and even then only a sprinkling of operators. While some people have interesting perspectives, a lot of times the discussion points are addressed from the REMF perspective. If you have any sort of pride in your ability to create a coherent argument and support it with well-written prose, then you will likely want to murder your classmates half-way through your first course. Many of us take to drinking during our posts to numb the absolute stupidity of some posts that are filled with "LOLs" and other web speak bullshit. The material is interesting if you are willing to critically analyze it. I have offered supportable contrary views many times in past classes...and as long as you're not an idiot about it, you can still do very well even with challenging the establishment. Most my previous instructors encouraged opposing viewpoints and debates rather than the "Nice post, Joe. I especially liked...[fill in e-dick sucking here]."
Highside Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 I've been min-running the program, and I've got 4 more classes to go. Lot's of reading assigned, but you have the question beforehand so you can focus your reading in order to just be able to answer the question. No problems getting A's and I'm not a very academically inclined person, my college GPA was 2.6. Most of the classes are repetitive and boring, but some of it is interesting. I'm just doing it to check the boxes... It's a pain in the ass, but I can't think of an easier/cheaper way to get it done. I would recommend signing up.
herkbum Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 I would estimate around 500+ pages of reading assigned a week. The workload is totally dependent upon your ability to process a large volume of reading and distill it into salient 150-300 word discussion board posts once a week with two responses to other students. Expect a mid-term of ~800-1600 words and a final of ~2000 words. There are two of eleven courses dedicated to your research paper.0 Instructors are willing to work around TDY and other issues, but you have to talk to them before it becomes an issue. I have been able to turn in mid-terms late without penalty during my PCS as I pre-coordinated with the instructor. Most instructors are retired O-6 types. AU is shooting themselves in the foot by not better promoting the benefits of their Master's degree program. Right now, the majority of my classmates in the Warfare Concentration (Majors/full ACSC credit) are civilians. In my experience, I have seen only a handful of officers, and even then only a sprinkling of operators. While some people have interesting perspectives, a lot of times the discussion points are addressed from the REMF perspective. If you have any sort of pride in your ability to create a coherent argument and support it with well-written prose, then you will likely want to murder your classmates half-way through your first course. Many of us take to drinking during our posts to numb the absolute stupidity of some posts that are filled with "LOLs" and other web speak bullshit. I finished up Summer of last year. I agree with ThreeHoler, my writings were much better post binge. The few operators that were in the classes with me, I happened to know from one time or another. The program was a lot of ass pain but I actually learned 1 or 2 things and my formal writing skills improved. Unfortunately, I get to use them on occassion.
CoolAid Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) 6 classes into the program here. I've managed to BS my way through it so far using about 6.9% of my brain cells. Occasionally you will see some douchebaggery in the forum discussions. I use those moments as an opportunity to push up my sleeves, throw a chew in and vent. The chance to argue against shoe clerk logic on their own turf is what keeps me enrolled and my participation above the minimum. Think about it this way: If you have time to post a few things a day to this forum, take a second and vent your thoughts in an ACSC class where you can really piss people off under the guise of academics. Who knows, you might influence someone. I did enjoy the Leadership and cultural classes- I admit that the readings have a good deal of value. It is 100 times more interesting than other programs such as UOPHX..but watch out: graduate with less than a B overall and you don't get the masters degree portion from what I understand. Expect to have two posts (150-300 words/2 sources a post) per week and 2x Essays ranging from 800-1800 words per class. Each class lasts 8 weeks and you can double up (sts) after your 2nd or 3rd class I think. **edit: I have not read more than 15-20 pages out of any assigned reading assignment and those times were when I was merely looking for source material... My take: Sign up. If you don't have a masters yet, you are wasting a free and easy opportunity to get one. Edited October 27, 2011 by CoolAid
FlyingBull Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Is there a catch? It seems anyone who just wants a box-checking Masters should be all over this. Or is it just not that well known?
ThreeHoler Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 It is not well known and there appears to be no catch. Initially they kept it quiet (something like only 100 students a year) because they didn't have the ability to support a lot of students. But, I think if we promote the program to our bros it will continue to grow...and many people will gain benefit from the degree and PME credit.
Highside Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Is there a catch? It seems anyone who just wants a box-checking Masters should be all over this. Or is it just not that well known? No I don't think there is a catch. I'm almost done, it has been a pain in the ass but I know it is waaaaay easier than the "real" masters degree that my brother got taking night classes at Carnegie Mellon. I still have the final research paper to do and I know it will take a bit of work. I think this masters is probably harder than ERAU or AMU or something, but this one is totally free and you don't have to mess with tuition assistance or any of that crap. All you do is click the mouse a few times, fill in your info and bam, you are taking your first class. And remember, this program fills TWO squares at once, Masters and ACSC, Bonus! I think one of the reasons a lot of people shy away from this program is I'm sure the degree is pretty much useless in the real world (although it is accredited, whatever that means). I personally don't care. I have talked to a lot of people trying to convince them to try it out because I personally think it's a good deal to fill squares. The other good thing is you can slow roll the program. I took a year off of classes just because I was sick of it, then I just went online and clicked "enroll" and I was back at it again. Nice! It's going to end up taking me about 2 1/2 years but can't think of an easier more flexible way to do your masters/ACSC crap. Bad side is it's cutting into my motorcycle racing, but I give myself at least one day per weekend for practice!
guineapigfury Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to be an O-4 select to get into this program? That would be the catch. If it were a free easy masters that could help you get promoted to Major, it would be a pretty sweet deal.
herkbum Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to be an O-4 select to get into this program? That would be the catch. If it were a free easy masters that could help you get promoted to Major, it would be a pretty sweet deal. It was required when I enrolled in 2008. Not sure about now.
Catbox Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Has anyone on here started and/or finished the ACSC OLMP? (https://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp) If so, a few questions... - What kind of work is it? A lot of reading, followed by discussion boards and paper writing? Any tests? - What's the workload of the classes? How many hours a week is required, etc? - How flexible is the program around our work schedules? I am specifically looking at the Leadership Concentration. I'm an O-3 w/ SOS in Res complete, but I'm just getting going on an AAD and it wouldn't be the end of the world to start over if it was worth it. They tried to sell it to us at SOS, but it was in the middle of a lot of other discussion and got lost in the chatter. Their website is a little sparse on the details. I asked this in the SOS/ACSC thread, but the topic was quickly changed and focused on SOS/ACSC alone and not necessarily this program, so maybe it needs its own thread.. Thanks for the info. I agree with everyone about this program...I was second classe to graduate and IMHO you get a much better and useable education that the people who are doing the truly ridiculous box checking masters degree programs. Beyond the price of books (which I got smarter on as the program progressed, there are ways to save money on books) it is completely free. I actually had some quality professors/instructors that really did give a crap and I learned more than I intended. After the first few 300 word discussion posts you really can go on auto-pilot if you want. I paid attention to the subjects I gave a crap about and tended to do the minimums on the one's I didn't. The time spent is up to you, average for me...maybe 4 hours a week but I only took one class at a time. Very flexible with our schedule, I was on the BWI rotator for two of the finals weeks both times they worked with me. No tests, but there is quite a bit of writing, especially your final paper. I was able to sneak in most of my discussion question answers during slow times at work. One of the biggest eye openers for me was interacting with the other O-4s I would never meet in person. There are some quality people in the AF and some slack jawed ######s that have no place manning a drive thru. Again not sure of the viability for the outside world but it was a shade better than traditional corespodance-ACSC when I was pledging different reserve units. If you don't get picked up in residence I highly recommend this over any other "check the box" masters out there. Edited October 28, 2011 by Catbox
ThreeHoler Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to be an O-4 select to get into this program? That would be the catch. If it were a free easy masters that could help you get promoted to Major, it would be a pretty sweet deal. This is absolutely incorrect. There are three programs under the OLMP. 1) Leadership Concentration -- "open to eligible Captains." Eligibility Military - Active Duty USAF O-3s who:Have Total Active Federal Commission Service of 6 or more yearsCompleted SOSDo not have a master’s degree 2) Operational Warfare Concentration -- "open to eligible Captains."EligibilityMilitary - Active Duty USAF O-3s who:Have Total Active Federal Commission Service of 6 or more yearsCompleted SOSDo not have a master’s degree "The operational warfare concentration, based upon the MOA between Air University, Air Education and Training Command, and the USAF Weapons School, Air Combat Command, is specifically designed to award 12 Graduate Credit Hours of concentration credit for graduates of the 23-week Weapons Instructor Course (WIC) program graduating after January 2009." 3) Joint Warfare Concentration -- "open to Majors, Major-selects and civilian equivalents." Eligibility Military - O-4 selects and 0-4s on active duty, non-extended active duty, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard. Individuals with either a Master's Degree or who have completed IDE, to include ACSC, may apply. However, individuals that have completed both a Master's Degree and IDE are not eligible. Most of this information is available right at the source, https://www.au.af.mil/au/dlmasters.asp, which happens to have been linked by the OP in the first thread.
IDALPHA Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Couple Questions: Which one is the "better" of the two? Leadership Concentration or Operational Warfare? Also, is this an actual "application" or are you automatically in when you are deemed eligible? Thanks.
zrooster99 Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I’m taking my last class of the program now. I agree with all of the above. Like anything in life, you get out of it what you put into it. There were times when I was task saturated at work/home and was able to still knock out a class with minimum pain. At other times, I was able to put in a little more time and got something out of it. Three advantages that I see: 1. Almost no cost...even if you buy all the books it still doesn't even come close to what many pay for masters classes; 2. It hacks two requirements at once (if you're an O4 or O4 select); and 3. Work load isn't bad.
jrobe Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to be an O-4 select to get into this program? That would be the catch. If it were a free easy masters that could help you get promoted to Major, it would be a pretty sweet deal. 3) Joint Warfare Concentration -- "open to Majors, Major-selects and civilian equivalents." Eligibility Military - O-4 selects and 0-4s on active duty, non-extended active duty, Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard. Individuals with either a Master's Degree or who have completed IDE, to include ACSC, may apply. However, individuals that have completed both a Master's Degree and IDE are not eligible. If you have SOS & yiur Masters DUN then yes your "catch" would apply. For the younger cats who are in the O-3 OLMPs you will get a Masters and some credit for ACSC when they complete the program. the ACSC Level OLMP will take longer to finish then the "traditional" ACSC correspondence program. But you get a masters out of it.
stract Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 If you have SOS & yiur Masters DUN then yes your "catch" would apply. SOS is NOT IDE.
guineapigfury Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Threeholer and JRobe, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm seriously considering this route now.
AlphaMikeFoxtrot Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Which one is the "better" of the two? Leadership Concentration or Operational Warfare? Also, is this an actual "application" or are you automatically in when you are deemed eligible? It's not about which one is better than the other it's about which one do you qualify for. The Leadership Concentration is for Capt's w/SOS complete and no masters. The Joint Warfare option is for Maj, Maj (S)'s that either need to complete a masters and IDE or are "topping off" the Leadership concentration in order to complete IDE. Finally, the Operational Warfare Option is for WIC grads who recieve credit for their time at the WIC schoolhouse through this program. The application process was pretty easy, the website walks you through it. It seemed like they simply double check your eligibility and then you're in. Hope this helps.
jrobe Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) SOS is NOT IDE. Rog, His question was about ACSC OLMP which is where the Catch would apply....SOS+Masters complete eliminates your eligibility to enter the O-3 programs which is where alot of people close to their Majs board sit. Plus you cannot take Joint Warfare unless you are a Maj/Maj select plus what Tree Holler said above--that would be the "Catch he is talking about" --------------- Under these rules..people w/Masters +SOS complete... you would have to wait (earliest) to join the ACSC OMLP level (joint warfare) until your Maj board results come out which makes you a Maj select. Then you can take the program and start from scratch (full Joint warefare program). For O-3's elgible for the other two OLMPs they can take/finish their programs...get picked up for Maj...apply for Joint Warfare (ACSC lvl) and top off..I think you get 4 credits towards joint warefare...If you have time and the fore thought for this route it looks pretty good. 2 MASTERS + ACSC would be dun...??? Edited October 29, 2011 by jrobe
ThreeHoler Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) Jrobe, SOS is BDE. Therefore, if you are SOS and BDE complete, you can still enroll in the OLMP Joint Warfare Concentration. Of course you can't enroll in the Master's only Leadership Concentration if you already have the rank-appropriate PME and your AAD complete. That would be a waste of time as far as the point of the program. ACSC (or the sister-service or foreign equivalents) is IDE. If you have done any form of ACSC and you have a Master's degree you cannot enroll in the Operational Warfare Concentration. You keep missing the point of the On-Line MASTER'S Program. The program is designed to give you a Master's degree. It has the added benefit of providing either 1) partial ACSC credit (3 of 7 courses) to Captains who have complete SOS but not a Master's; or 2) full ACSC credit to Majors (and selects) who have not completed both IDE and their Master's. Why would any Captain, who already has a Master's degree, ever enroll in another Master's program just to get partial ACSC credit when they could do the correspondence program in about the amount of time it takes to do their first course? The ACSC OLMP is not about ACSC. It is the side benefit. You keep missing this point. The ACSC OLMP is about the Master's degree. Edited October 29, 2011 by ThreeHoler
jrobe Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) Jrobe, SOS is BDE. Therefore, if you are SOS and BDE complete, you can still enroll in the OLMP Joint Warfare Concentration. Of course you can't enroll in the Master's only Leadership Concentration if you already have the rank-appropriate PME and your AAD complete. That would be a waste of time as far as the point of the program. I don't think your reading what I typed. This (minus the waste of time part) is what I said.. I even referenced what you said above.--Don't forget Maj or Maj select in your comment to enroll ACSC (or the sister-service or foreign equivalents) is IDE. If you have done any form of ACSC and you have a Master's degree you cannot enroll in the Operational Warfare Concentration. Bro I understand this-- I even understand what BDE and IDE are You keep missing the point of the On-Line MASTER'S Program. The program is designed to give you a Master's degree. It has the added benefit of providing either 1) partial ACSC credit (3 of 7 courses) to Captains who have complete SOS but not a Master's; or 2) full ACSC credit to Majors (and selects) who have not completed both IDE and their Master's. I don't miss the point at all. I think your too focused on the Masters slant. for me the benifit would the ACSC+Masters...Total package. Not just the Masters. Why would any Captain, who already has a Master's degree, ever enroll in another Master's program just to get partial ACSC credit when they could do the correspondence program in about the amount of time it takes to do their first course? They may want the extra Masters on thier record...Could be a benfit in the AF or perhaps in a bad economy a Benifit in the outside world...If they knew they wanted to enroll in the Joint Warefare program after making Maj it would save time down the road.... The ACSC OLMP is not about ACSC. It is the side benefit. You keep missing this point. The ACSC OLMP is about the Master's degree. Bro in the end I do not miss the point...I fact if you Read what I type we do agree..I know crazy...I do look at the benifits in a completely different light from you. If I did enroll in the Joint warefare program it would only because it gives the ACSC credit plus an extra Masters. Take either of these away I wouldn't even think of it. If I was younger--Less time in Service I would take a real look at the other programs as well. Edited October 29, 2011 by jrobe
old crow Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 I don't think your reading what I typed. This (minus the waste of time part) is what I said.. I even referenced what you said above.--Don't forget Maj or Maj select in your comment to enroll Bro I understand this-- I even understand what BDE and IDE are I don't miss the point at all. I think your too focused on the Masters slant. for me the benifit would the ACSC+Masters...Total package. Not just the Masters. They may want the extra Masters on thier record...Could be a benfit in the AF or perhaps in a bad economy a Benifit in the outside world...If they knew they wanted to enroll in the Joint Warefare program after making Maj it would save time down the road.... Bro in the end I do not miss the point...I fact if you Read what I type we do agree..I know crazy...I do look at the benifits in a completely different light from you. If I did enroll in the Joint warefare program it would only because it gives the ACSC credit plus an extra Masters. Take either of these away I wouldn't even think of it. If I was younger--Less time in Service I would take a real look at the other programs as well. Learn how to fucking type, punctuate and spell. Maybe GED is more your speed.
jrobe Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 Learn how to ######ing type, punctuate and spell. Maybe GED is more your speed. Maybe... I did goto public SKOOL...GO RAZOR BACKS
ThreeHoler Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Jrobe, two Master's on your record might just be worth it...if the OSB actually showed more than Bachelor's, Bachelor's +, or Master's.
Coxor Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 I'm an O-3, no masters, SOS in correspondence complete... I'm right around the 6 year point. Are they looking for those who've completed SOS in residence or does correspondence count?
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