WIC for tankers

[thecloser2144]

Is WIC a complete waste of time for tankers?...I mean, what can they possibly teach you for tactics with the tanker....overhead, scram, combat descent....???? Our Wing Commander seems to think that someone needs to go to this but I think its a complete waste of time, not to mention that most of the patch wearers I've come across are complete tools. Any thoughts?

[TAMInated]

I believe you mean "W"IC. What's the max effective range of JP-8?

[guineapigfury]

CAVEAT: I haven't been, but I've talked to a couple patch-wearers about going and what the course entails. My understanding is that tanker WIC is an advanced planning course with a sampling of some of the tactical stuff. I'd like to go just so I never have to wear another wing patch again. I've also heard that they have a not insignificant washout rate, so there are usually slots open because people don't want to take the chance. The resulting open slots (GIGGEDY!!!) are probably why your Wing CC is seeking applicants.

[Toro]

I'd like to go just so I never have to wear another wing patch again.

[FallingOsh]

They probably wouldn't get so much shit if they just called it Advanced Planning rather than Weapons School.

[thecloser2144]

Nice...yeah, I wore my "non graduate" patch to Red Flag one year, the fighter guys didn't get my sense of humor. I'd probably go if I was hard up for the pay days, but I don't really want to PCS. Thanks for the info.

[TAMInated]

We got it, it just wasn't funny.

[matmacwc]

Just find the one block of airspace that has clouds in it, fly there and what for the fighters AR time....congrats, you're a tanker patch.

[sledy]

Just find the one block of airspace that has clouds in it, fly there and what for the fighters AR time....congrats, you're a tanker patch.

Shack.

Throw in "Autopilot Off" for training in that scenario and you'll be DG

[Bergman]

I'd probably go if I was hard up for the pay days, but I don't really want to PCS. Thanks for the info.

It's a TDY.

If your only motivation for going was paydays, I don't think you'd last long.

[OL Patch]

HOLY CRAP....there's a tanker division at FWS...I mean FWIC...excuse me WIC? I'm a dinosaur!

OL Patch

not to mention that most of the patch wearers I've come across are complete tools. Any thoughts?

yea I have a thought

Edited November 1, 2011 by OL Patch

[OL Patch]

Hey yayaya....Hey yayaya....Hey yayaya....

That's me doing the Apache/Sioux/Cherokee drum chant waiting for ClearedHot and Rainman to explain to me what a Tanker WIC really means to me....and also provide mutual support and roll in on thecloser2144 and help figure out what patches he would have interacted with.....probably had to be Intel patchs warning him of the significant risk involved with tanker track placement miles from a perceived threat or maybe he confused Bergman giving him payday advice with a WS debrief.....as cousin Eddie stated in "A Christmas Vacation"---"I don't know....what you goin do Clarke?"

Back to the Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPA after work!

[brabus]

Closer, here's a question for you: Do you want to be the guy who stands up in front of the room filled with fighter, bomber and rescue guys and says, "Hi, I'm Capt XXXX, the tanker patch." Now that was some funny shit. On the other side though in all seriousness, doing what you can to be the best (in a good way, not in a back stabbing/pole smoking way) and provide the most contribution to your community is a good thing. It's retarded there's a "W"IC for tankers, but whatever, it exists and maybe that's just another way you can increase your ability to contribute to the community. On a second example, I have meet a tanker patch (haha, really?) who was a smart dude who worked well for us and even "pushed the rope" in planning to better support the vuls. Even something as simple as suggesting track movement, splitting 4 ships to different tankers, etc. are not ideas you typically get from a tanker guy, so good on him. I'll still laugh at the idea of tanker WIC, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's a good idea to better yourself as a pilot...the course is probably a good thing, it's just that it shouldn't be part of WIC. Whatever, back to my coffee.

[OL Patch]

To pile on Brabus (C model division never used STS as you can imagine after the Kadena debacle).....I was being slightly facetious in my response. The expansion of the "Weapon School" concept from fighter to Intel, ABM, Space, Rotorheads, Stealth, etc...etc...has only reaped benefits for the entire community. Just a little miffed when he brought out his patch tool comment, Okay back to the regularly scheduled program...Hey yayaya Hey yayaya Hey yayaya

Edited November 1, 2011 by OL Patch

[matmacwc]

Funny how most dudes don't think that Kadena crap was real, or think it was at Nellis.

[thecloser2144]

Closer, here's a question for you: Do you want to be the guy who stands up in front of the room filled with fighter, bomber and rescue guys and says, "Hi, I'm Capt XXXX, the tanker patch." Now that was some funny shit. On the other side though in all seriousness, doing what you can to be the best (in a good way, not in a back stabbing/pole smoking way) and provide the most contribution to your community is a good thing. It's retarded there's a "W"IC for tankers, but whatever, it exists and maybe that's just another way you can increase your ability to contribute to the community. On a second example, I have meet a tanker patch (haha, really?) who was a smart dude who worked well for us and even "pushed the rope" in planning to better support the vuls. Even something as simple as suggesting track movement, splitting 4 ships to different tankers, etc. are not ideas you typically get from a tanker guy, so good on him. I'll still laugh at the idea of tanker WIC, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's a good idea to better yourself as a pilot...the course is probably a good thing, it's just that it shouldn't be part of WIC. Whatever, back to my coffee.

Well to answer some of the questions on here, I was trying to point out the ridiculous of having tanker guys wear the patch and say that they went to the school...and how in our community they are pushing this tactics down our throats when they should be concentrating on other things...you know flying the aircraft, teaching new students, talking to the FAA about new procedures, etc. Instead, we (AMC community) tend to focus now on the non-flying aspects and that flying is an afterthought.

To help out the fighter guys with their vuls, its pretty simple and any nutless monkey should be able to do it. How hard can it be...hmm, we have so much gas, and we are in this area...will that work for you fighter dude?....Sorry but having to sit through those horrendous briefings at Red Flag when all we care about is place, how much gas, and how long you need us for is about as pointless as having a tanker guy go to WIC.

Finally, I think that maybe a more beneficial school would be say Advanced Instrument School, or Instructor School before WIC or anything to do with "tactics." Ohh, i'm sure I wasn't the only guard guy who has ever gone to a school for the sake of getting paydays.

Seriously...nutless monkey.

[ThreeHoler]

To help out the fighter guys with their vuls, its pretty simple and any nutless monkey should be able to do it. How hard can it be...hmm, we have so much gas, and we are in this area...will that work for you fighter dude?....Sorry but having to sit through those horrendous briefings at Red Flag when all we care about is place, how much gas, and how long you need us for is about as pointless as having a tanker guy go to WIC.

This is the exact opposite of the benefit provided by the particular tanker WIC dude described by brabus. You just made yourself sound like a typical douche-bag tanker pilot who doesn't have an ounce of receiver consideration in his blood...kind of like those Copperheads who try to drag their receivers through thunderstorms because it's too much of a "pain in the ass" to coordinate random AAR with ATC.

[Danny Noonin]

Sorry but having to sit through those horrendous briefings at Red Flag when all we care about is place, how much gas, and how long you need us for is about as pointless as having a tanker guy go to WIC.

Exhibit A for why tanker dudes get scoffed.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Danny Noonin

[Guest]

waiting for ClearedHot and Rainman to explain to me what a Tanker WIC really means to me....and also provide mutual support and roll in on thecloser2144 and help figure out what patches he would have interacted with.....probably had to be Intel patchs warning him of the significant risk involved with tanker track placement miles from a perceived threat or maybe he confused Bergman giving him payday advice with a WS debrief.....

I remember reviewing their syllabus several times back in the 90s when the school was expanding. It included specific sortie elements like "extreme low altitude refueling", "mnvrs not authorized in-flight", "EMCON procedures" and "max endurance profile" along with all kinds of instument and VFR pattern work and EP practice (to be fair the Helo and C-130 guys had the pattern/EP stuff in their syllabus, too).

We were tasked by Jumper, Uncle Wally and Frito to find legitimate things for them to put in their syllabus but there was really nothing any of the fighter guys could come up with becuase we knew nothing about what tankers did other than the obvious. It was decided to let it go to AMC (like the C-130s) and we dropped it at Nellis.

Every new division/community went through significant growing pains. The IPs had to learn how to focus on the right things and then the communities had to learn how to accept and properly utilize the new patchwearers. It really took each community until their weapons officers began taking command positions before things got sorted out. Standard learning curve and big changes take time to take full effect.

By the looks of it the Tanker guys aren't there yet. But I have faith.

To pile on Brabus (C model division never used STS as you can imagine after the Kadena debacle).....I was being slightly facetious in my response. The expansion of the "Weapon School" concept from fighter to Intel, ABM, Space, Rotorheads, Stealth, etc...etc...has only reaped benefits for the entire community.

Agreed.

Remember, I got shacked with a picture of me preflighting an AIM-9 on the cover of AIR FORCE TIMES with the "USAF Weapons School, Not Just For Fighters Anymore" headline for the story about how the Weapons School was going to expand. I ate a lot of shit for that picture but I believe the USAF has reaped big benefits by expanding the school. The overall expanded network of patchwearers and awareness and respect for what everyone brings to the fight alone has been priceless.

All this in spite of the four 11F divisions screaming it would never work.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Regarding patch-wearers being "tools"...I've known and flown with many C-130 WIC grads who were awesome pilots and good dudes. I've flown with a bunch who were tools. But now that I think about it, they were typically tools before they wore the WIC patch anyways.

There's nothing wrong with knowing more about your job.

[Guest]

But now that I think about it, they were typically tools before they wore the WIC patch anyways.

The goal for applicants in any division is for those guys to get sorted in the application process at the wing level. The schoolhouse should sort it out if they slip through the cracks.

We all know the system isn't perfect...especially the first part.