Civilian Jobs while flying in the ANG

[Guest ranger7]

Hello everyone,

Currently I am a junior in college majoring in mechanical engineering with a few questions with regard to jobs outside of the guard. I have been searching through a lot of threads and haven't seen anything on the topic so I figured I'd ask. How hard is it to have a job that actually pays well outside of the guard? For instance, let's say I worked at Boeing or some other aerospace engineering company as an engineer... Does flying get in the way of actually being able to retain a job? My guess is it would depend on the company and what they are all about. And I know about the legal obligations companies have to keep your job while you get deployed, however my main focus is while not on deployment and doing the "part time" thing. I would like to have some way of making ends meet after all the training and as I have read it is important to selection boards to know that you have a plan. Thanks

[Wild_Hawg]

ranger7,

I too am an engineer and know others that do engineering while doing the guard thing. Most companies are very open to working with you, especially Boeing in your example. Flight training on the weekend gig will not be all that is required. Usually you will have to takeoff a Thursday and / or Friday to play catch up one a month. Boeing has way too many military contracts with the Air Force to make a fuss about a day or two here or their. Worst case use a day of vacation once per month to play catch up.

Hope this helps.

Wild_Hawg

[kapilot]

Not hard at all, especially if you work for a defense oriented company like WH said. I know a couple guard and reserve guys who are doing what your talking about. Some even fly for their civilian job because their engineering background was desired so they could "communicate" better with engineers and got to be involved in both aspects. Good pick with the engineering degree!

[Guest ranger7]

Thanks guys appreciate all the feedback. Knowing that I can actually have that sort of a job and still fly means I can now concentrate on getting into a unit somewhere, hopefully fighters...

[HeyWatchThis]

I am also curious as to what current guard/reserve guys do (who don't fly for airlines). I am looking at maybe being a GS civilian. Anybody work for the government during the week and fly? I'm a business major (currently contracting officer in the AF) and I've been sponsored by a unit. Just curious what types of jobs and/or companies dudes have had a good experience with supporting their flying duties.

[Marco]

In my unit we've got small biz owners, lawyers, Customs agents, dudes who work at the Depot (Warner Robins), cops, and also the FedEx, UPS, airline types. This includes flyers and non-flyers.

[BlackKnight]

In my unit we've got small biz owners, lawyers, Customs agents, dudes who work at the Depot (Warner Robins), cops, and also the FedEx, UPS, airline types. This includes flyers and non-flyers.

In other words, to use the above as an example to answer all the rest of the posters questions, you can work anywhere. It's not like there are specific jobs out there that include "and is easily workable with Guard duty". The law allows you to be out of the office to do Guard duty. The unwritten aspects are how many longer days you have to work to make it happen, how happy the boss will be with you, etc. Some jobs are better than others (Airlines, Aerospace industry, Defense contractors, GS jobs, Law Enforcement, to name a few). Let me try to give examples while still keeping it faster/funnier:

1. If you are applying for a new job, don't "overemphasize" your Guard commitments. Don't lie, but keep it brief ("I'm in the Guard"). If they ask, tell them what's necessary. Employers can't legally NOT hire you due to you being in the Guard, but they can mask their displeasure and choose someone else because they don't like that you'll be out of the office.

2. My experience is as a figher guy, other airframes are probably different. Typical monthly commitment to get your sorties is 5 days a month. One of those 5 is typically the Saturday of the "one weekend a month". So, you'll probably plan on being out 4 days of the work month. When I was a civilian contractor I did Thursday/Friday of every other week. Keep in mind that MANY of the pilots put the drill Saturday as one of their availability periods for the same reason you do, so actually flying that day isn't easy. Makes it tough to get 6 sorties in the 4 other days unless your unit does out/backs, double turns, or there's tankers for a fight-tank-fight, but that's the way it goes. Don't forget the weather and maintenance cancels...

3. When I was a civilian contractor, I could take mil leave to do my flying days, but of course that reduced my monthly pay. That's fine (I'm not in this for the money), but I either got less pay, or worked longer days the other days of the week. So, if you wanted to do 40 hours a week AND fly Thur/Fri, you'd have to do 3, 13 hour days plus a one hour kicker on one of the days. My boss didn't want us constantly doing reduced hour workweeks, so I spent some LONG days working. If you're real lucky you can find a job that does 2 week pay/work periods. In other words, spreading 80 hours out over 8 wordays is a lot easier than spreading 40 hours out over 3 days, then doing a normal 40 hour in 5 days the next week.

4. The airlines are obviously the popular pick- it's the best paying, most flexible, easiest job I've seen work with Guard commitments. Couple things to think about if you've got the option (my experience is now as a Fedex guy):

a. You typically get scheduled 15-17 days a month. A few days less than working full-time workweeks.

b. I can't think of many other jobs where they carry, daily, multiple people in "reserve" to pick up doing your job in case you don't come in. Makes dropping days scheduled to work for your airline to go to the Guard easy.

Good luck,

Barney

[so.it.goes]

In other words, to use the above as an example to answer all the rest of the posters questions, you can work anywhere. It's not like there are specific jobs out there that include "and is easily workable with Guard duty". The law allows you to be out of the office to do Guard duty. The unwritten aspects are how many longer days you have to work to make it happen, how happy the boss will be with you, etc. Some jobs are better than others (Airlines, Aerospace industry, Defense contractors, GS jobs, Law Enforcement, to name a few). Let me try to give examples while still keeping it faster/funnier:

1. If you are applying for a new job, don't "overemphasize" your Guard commitments. Don't lie, but keep it brief ("I'm in the Guard"). If they ask, tell them what's necessary. Employers can't legally NOT hire you due to you being in the Guard, but they can mask their displeasure and choose someone else because they don't like that you'll be out of the office.

2. My experience is as a figher guy, other airframes are probably different. Typical monthly commitment to get your sorties is 5 days a month. One of those 5 is typically the Saturday of the "one weekend a month". So, you'll probably plan on being out 4 days of the work month. When I was a civilian contractor I did Thursday/Friday of every other week. Keep in mind that MANY of the pilots put the drill Saturday as one of their availability periods for the same reason you do, so actually flying that day isn't easy. Makes it tough to get 6 sorties in the 4 other days unless your unit does out/backs, double turns, or there's tankers for a fight-tank-fight, but that's the way it goes. Don't forget the weather and maintenance cancels...

3. When I was a civilian contractor, I could take mil leave to do my flying days, but of course that reduced my monthly pay. That's fine (I'm not in this for the money), but I either got less pay, or worked longer days the other days of the week. So, if you wanted to do 40 hours a week AND fly Thur/Fri, you'd have to do 3, 13 hour days plus a one hour kicker on one of the days. My boss didn't want us constantly doing reduced hour workweeks, so I spent some LONG days working. If you're real lucky you can find a job that does 2 week pay/work periods. In other words, spreading 80 hours out over 8 wordays is a lot easier than spreading 40 hours out over 3 days, then doing a normal 40 hour in 5 days the next week.

4. The airlines are obviously the popular pick- it's the best paying, most flexible, easiest job I've seen work with Guard commitments. Couple things to think about if you've got the option (my experience is now as a Fedex guy):

a. You typically get scheduled 15-17 days a month. A few days less than working full-time workweeks.

b. I can't think of many other jobs where they carry, daily, multiple people in "reserve" to pick up doing your job in case you don't come in. Makes dropping days scheduled to work for your airline to go to the Guard easy.

Good luck,

Barney

It sounds like there is usually a good mix of different occupations outside of the flying duties, but is airline/cargo "usually" the full-time job for most Guard pilots? Meaning, I suppose, do the MAJORITY of Guard pilots choose to fly as both their jobs?

[Guest]

Nope.

The MAJORITY are NASCAR drivers and porn star talent scouts.

[Prozac]

Nope.

porn star talent scouts.

Can the VA assist in finding work in this field? (straight only please)

[Guest]

Can the VA assist in finding work in this field? (straight only please)

Yes.

Proceed to your nearest VA facility.

[Loach]

I'm a full-time GS for CBP (Customs) and fly 130's part time as a nav. No problems at all taking time off to fly. B/c of the nature of my job (my specific duties working in Passport Control -- i.e. a "stamp monkey") I can pretty much call out at will, as there are usually about 30-50 officers on each shift at the airport. This means that me not being there isn't much of an impact, so they don't care that i take mil leave (and I take a lot -- currently on a 3 yr AD tour). I've gotten called by scheduling at night to come in the next day, and all I do is call my port and tell them I'll be taking mil leave the next day and will get them orders or a letter (for IDT) either later that day (by fax) or then next day that I come into work. No problems at all.

Before working for CBP though, I worked in state Gov't. I ran a small team in an office for the judiciary, and they gave me a lot of grief when it came to taking time off, as me being out of the office equated to 20% of the team not being in. It created a lot of problems, and I wound up leaving (for other reasons as well).

So, my advice to you, is do some research on which gov't agency you want to work for and see how they are regarding mil leave and in particular a flying position. Be up front and let them know that your commitment will be more than the average "national guard soldier" (I'm the only flyer at CBP - everyone else is Army guard/reserve non-flyers, doing the basic 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year), as that's the perception most of have when you tell them you're in the guard or reserve. I did a lot of night flying, and could usually get by just taking 2 hours of mil leave on a Thurs to fly that night (and get a double FTP). Depends on the hours you work, how far you are from your base, etc.

Also, in any job you take, if it's a 1 deep position, and you're the person in that position, you'll probably catch some grief about being out too much. While they can't "officially" give youi grief, b/c of USERRA, they do. I called the state ethics officer for the guard, and he said the biggest problems they have with employers is state and local gov't giving guardsman and reservists a hard time about their commitments. He called the office I worked for and talked to HR, and the "overt" grief went away, although my manager was definitely even more pissed about the whole thing.

[so.it.goes]

Nope.

The MAJORITY are NASCAR drivers and porn star talent scouts.

Understood... So, a lot of burning rubber either way.

[Guest]

Also, depending on the proximity of the unit/airline, you can bid reserve in the airlines and while waiting for the call on reserve, you can get paid to fly or do CBTs at the squadron. Just keep your cell phone on in the pattern just in case screw scheduling calls.

Seriously?

One's in hot.

Cleared hot One.

Two's base.

Uh, One, Three...I just got a text and I have to buster direct JFK. Can you send mx to dearm my jet and have Ops send a pilot to fly it back to the base for me?

Two's in hot.

Sure, no problem. You're cleared off Three. Have a good trip.

Cleared hot Two. Shack One.

Roger that, thanks guys. I'll settle the bet when I get back.

Four's base....Two say position?

[HawkJ2010]

Anyone know of teachers who have been a part of enlisted/officer flying in the ANG/AFRes? Just curious if the school districts would allow you to be gone multiple times in a month? Thanks.

[herkbum]

Anyone know of teachers who have been a part of enlisted/officer flying in the ANG/AFRes? Just curious if the school districts would allow you to be gone multiple times in a month? Thanks.

We have a Nav that is a high school teacher and was a wrestling coach.

Edited April 17, 2012 by herkbum

[HeyWatchThis]

Anyone know of teachers who have been a part of enlisted/officer flying in the ANG/AFRes? Just curious if the school districts would allow you to be gone multiple times in a month? Thanks.

One of the pilots in the unit that sponsored me is a Jr High teacher.......from what I understand works out pretty well for him because he flys during the summer a lot...good extra income......

Edited April 18, 2012 by MattS

[LoadClear]

Anyone know of teachers who have been a part of enlisted/officer flying in the ANG/AFRes? Just curious if the school districts would allow you to be gone multiple times in a month? Thanks.

I know of a few Loadmasters and front enders that are teachers at high schools and community colleges in our unit. They tend to fly in the evenings most of the time and take mil leave when need/want to, and doesn't seem to be too much of an issue. Thats what subs are for, right? Somebody has to babysit when Mr. Jones is playing GI Joe.

[HawkJ2010]

It seems from my reading on these forums that being an active part of your squadron as well as a big asset in your civilian career is very difficult and most of the time you find yourself putting more effort into one than the other. However, I believe a career in teaching would greatly complement being a loadmaster/pilot in the reserves for two main reasons 1) substitute teachers can fall in 2) weekends and school vacations leave time open for reserve duties (summers off, too!). If you know any teachers that are pilots/loadmasters who you think would be willing to talk to me shoot me a PM and I'll give you my contact information. I'd greatly appreciate.

Thanks!

[guineapigfury]

Why not be the substitute teacher while in the Guard? I'm seriously considering this route when my ADSC is up. You have flexibility with both careers and a greatly reduced workload on the civilian side. Both my parents retired from teaching this year, and doing it full-time nearly drove them both to having a heart attack.

Expect to be one of the more competent teachers on day one due to your military experience. This will get noticed, and you will immediately have all kinds of stuff dumped in your lap. Multiple problem kids with severe behavioral issues (standard epic parenting fail) will somehow wind up in your class, while the neighboring teachers have none. Also, do not under any circumstances demonstrate any ability with computers or you will become the default IT guy for your school. Dad made both these mistakes and several of the schools he taught at did everything they could to ride him into the ground. You have been warned.

[HawkJ2010]

I contemplated substitute teaching... never looked into it too much though. I believe that being a full-time teacher would be more stable but I could be wrong. Also, I remember back in my day kids treated substitutes like crap (unless they were hot). Lol.

I never thought about being judged as more competent... makes sense. Guess I'll have to live up to those expectations!

[guineapigfury]

I contemplated substitute teaching... never looked into it too much though. I believe that being a full-time teacher would be more stable but I could be wrong. Also, I remember back in my day kids treated substitutes like crap (unless they were hot). Lol. I never thought about being judged as more competent... makes sense. Guess I'll have to live up to those expectations!

You've hit the nail on the head. I'll testify that all my knowledge of teaching is second hand, but full time teaching struck me very much as "active duty" while substitute teaching was very much "Guard". My mother did both. She enjoyed substitute teaching, full-time nearly gave her a heart attack. Caveat on this is they both gave a shit about doing a good job. If you don't care about actually educating the kids, teaching is one of the easiest jobs out there. Good luck whatever you pick.

[LoadClear]

Why not be the substitute teacher while in the Guard?

Because subbing doesn't pay dick.

[Techsan]

Anyone here in the Guard or AFRC have experience with flying corporate with your ANG/AFRC job or know anybody that does? I imagine it's pretty rare to find seeing that a lot of corporate flight departments are relatively small, therefore it's hard to cover for you when you're gone---not to mention the on-call nature of a corporate gig.

[Cap-10]

Anyone here in the Guard or AFRC have experience with flying corporate with your ANG/AFRC job or know anybody that does? I imagine it's pretty rare to find seeing that a lot of corporate flight departments are relatively small, therefore it's hard to cover for you when you're gone---not to mention the on-call nature of a corporate gig.

Not me personally, but my bro from college was flying for GE out of CT and flying the KC-10 out of McGuire.

Cheers,

Cap-10