fou Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) https://www.airforcet...g-block-112111/ Edited November 21, 2011 by fou
B52gator Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 and yet they are paying $7.4B to upgrade the F-22. Brilliant! https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/11/ap-lockheed-gets-af-deal-to-upgrade-f22-111911w/
Guest CAVEMAN Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Yeap, big Army is going to have to take this one like a man. We lobbied to get this program when we should not have only to put is on the short list...but then the Army gave it up to keep other programs. Edited November 21, 2011 by CAVEMAN
OverTQ Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 In one of the units we had a saying, "I have been fvcked before, and it felt a lot like this".
Guest Grind Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) I guess baseops needs to change its logo then. Edited November 22, 2011 by Grind 1
RescueRandy Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 and yet they are paying $7.4B to upgrade the F-22. Brilliant! https://www.airforcet...de-f22-111911w/ No kidding... another $7.4B for the F$@!*&# Raptor (which has already cost how much?) and now we have have to cancel potentially legit programs like the Spartan and (heaven forbid) new rescue birds (a la CSAR-X). In the spirit of full disclosure, I realize that there's potential for the HH-60U Operational Loss Replacement program, but I'm not holding my breath with the "sequestering" that's going to be happening. In either case, it's not the "leap forward" in capabilities that CSAR-X purported to provide. Lastly, for the king of all fighters, the Raptors haven't actually done much fighting as I recall. 0 kills thus far, right? Not counting bird strikes, of course... thousands of saves for Jolly/Pedro but no helicopters. Goose egg for the F-22 and $7.4B more. Only in the AF. Yee!
Slander Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 No kidding... another $7.4B for the F$@!*&# Raptor (which has already cost how much?) and now we have have to cancel potentially legit programs like the Spartan and (heaven forbid) new rescue birds (a la CSAR-X). In the spirit of full disclosure, I realize that there's potential for the HH-60U Operational Loss Replacement program, but I'm not holding my breath with the "sequestering" that's going to be happening. In either case, it's not the "leap forward" in capabilities that CSAR-X purported to provide. Lastly, for the king of all fighters, the Raptors haven't actually done much fighting as I recall. 0 kills thus far, right? Not counting bird strikes, of course... thousands of saves for Jolly/Pedro but no helicopters. Goose egg for the F-22 and $7.4B more. Only in the AF. Yee! Spending money on fighters is a way to posture in the world stage. China has been spending lots of money on their fighters, Russia has been spending lots of money on their fighters, India has been spending lots of money on their fighters. Given Obama's recent decision to focus on the Pacific for force posturing (i.e. China) upgrading our Raptor fleet may have something to do with this. This is not to minimize the great work that the CSAR community has done and is doing; just part of the politicking in the world stage.
M2 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 It's a game, nobody but the Air Force wants fighters; but the other services are depending on the Spartan and rescue birds. Claiming to chop those programs will hopefully get some outcry, causing Big Blue to shrug its shoulders and act like there's nothing it can do. It's childish, but that's how it's played. Truthfully, after seeing the fucking monstrosity of the new 502 ABW headquarters at Ft Sam (because some USAF GO wanted to "stake his claim" on the Army post, since Ol' Blue owns JBSA) and the even bigger monstrosity of the über-training facility being built on Lackland at an estimate cost of $900 million (and ya know it's only going to go up!), I'm confused. For some reason the 40-yr-old RH&Ts that were good enough for clowns like me to not only go through Basic Training but Field Training as well are no longer up to the task! Plus, they're gonna tear down Wilford Hall Medical Center and build a clinic in its place. Seriously? Demolish a perfectly good building and then construct another one in the same site? In some ways I think the DoD needs a swift kick in the nuts to get it back on track with how it spends its dollars; but it's idiotic decisions such as cutting the C-27 and personnel in lieu of big screen TVs and other shit that tells me it would be of no use. The services are gonna have to bleed a little before they learn how to deal with the pain, as obviously the warnings are not sinking in! Strap in, gentlemen; it's gonna be a bumpy ride... 2
Spinner Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Strap in, gentlemen; it's gonna be a bumpy ride... Strap in/strap on. Either way, we're all going to get f*cked in the end...
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 To start off with, I get it that the F-22 *is* relevant in today's world...air superiority plays a role on certain world stages. But let's face it...the F-22, sans upgrades, is far more capable than any other fighter out there. Sure, the Chicoms may catch up down the road, but the facts are the Army needs the C-27 NOW. Rescue needs new helicopters NOW. There are a lot of other priorities out there aside from making the greatest fighter even greater. And M2 is right...as much as I don't want to see DoD get cut deeply, we do manage to waste some ing money on stupid stuff. I see it over here in OEF every day. Pour some concrete...oh wait, we didn't want it that way...tear it up and we'll pour some this way. Wait, now we're moving these types of aircraft in...so let's rip up this ramp again and start over...
Lawman Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 In one of the units we had a saying, "I have been fvcked before, and it felt a lot like this". 12th CAB? That sounds pretty familiar. And yes, thanks big AF for fighting to kill off a program that you didnt really want in the first place just so the Army couldnt have a big new pretty grey plane.
alwyn2d Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Not only did the Army get screwed, how about the ANG units that will lose their mission. One unit turned in their F-15s for the C-27J.
Danny Noonin Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 One unit turned in their F-15s for the C-27J. Who was that?
Breckey Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Yuppers. Soon we will rule the Big Sky alone. Mwahahaha!! But on a more serious note, it seriously sucks for those guys if they lose the C-27.
Guest CAVEMAN Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Not only did the Army get screwed, how about the ANG units that will lose their mission. One unit turned in their F-15s for the C-27J. Some of those units were suppose to lose their flying mission a long while ago. Their Senators/Congressmen were appeased by the Air Force with a C-27 mission. I am willing to bet that Big Blue knew all along they were going to eventually yank the rug. So with looming budget cuts, the decision was not difficult.
alwyn2d Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Some of those units were suppose to lose their flying mission a long while ago. Their Senators/Congressmen were appeased by the Air Force with a C-27 mission. I am willing to bet that Big Blue knew all along they were going to eventually yank the rug. So with looming budget cuts, the decision was not difficult. If that's true, then it's truly coldblooded. The USAF CofS looked in the eyes and shook hands with the Army CofS in the total support of the C-27J mission. Big Blue does it again. They are the 800 pound gorilla. Make it 750, we're downsizing. Edited November 27, 2011 by alwyn2d
brock Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 If that's true, then it's truly coldblooded. The USAF CofS looked in the eyes and shook hands with the Army CofS in the total support of the C-27J mission. Big Blue does it again. They are the 800 pound gorilla. Make it 750, we're downsizing. True. But the Army is as much to blame. How many times does it take you to realize sticking your finger in the light socket hurts? This goes way beyond the C-27 and the MC-12. The Army lost the same battle in the 60's. As an Army Aviator with 18 years of service this seems like the norm for the for us. The guys who really get the Big green weenie are the C-23 guard bubbas.
Swizzle Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 ....The guys who really get the Big green weenie are the C-23 guard bubbas. LOL. Straight from the man himself.
brock Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I know seems like a stretch, but why not just give the program back to the Army. I know that Congress had mentioned that the MC-12 go to the Army for TF ODIN. Why not let the Air Force keep that mission and the airframes and give up the C-27 to The Army. Send Guard guys down to Georgia and have the Air Force train them up as IP's, FE's or Loadmasters.
Guest Hueypilot812 Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 What does a C-27 do that a C-130 can't? Fly full.... There were many flights I flew around empty or with just a pallet or two...
RASH Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 What does a C-27 do that a C-130 can't? Barely stays airborne with one engine inop...
Lawman Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Barely stays airborne with one engine inop... It was supposed to be an improvement over the Sherpa, and that thing sure as hell wont stay airborn while loaded up on one engine. Again thanks Air Force for kicking us in the junk again.
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