Lack of Flight Discipline

[sputnik]

Which rule is that?

The one that says don't film a barrel roll in a King Air and leave the camera sitting in the plane for mx to find and watch the video?

[Whitman]

The verbiage in the TO? Or are you hoping it was written somewhere else as well?

You mean the one written by Beechcraft? Pretty sure they don't have a Dash 1, but I'm not a doctor.

[HuggyU2]

The verbiage in the TO? Or are you hoping it was written somewhere else as well?

Yes, Mr Tanerite... I'd like to know what AFI/Dash1/military guidance/reference you are referencing. Not that I doubt it exists, but I've yet to see anyone post it yet.

Sputnik,

Your rule seems valid. However it was violated by a crew member other than the pilot.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Huggyu2

[guineapigfury]

You mean the one written by Beechcraft? Pretty sure they don't have a Dash 1, but I'm not a doctor.

We had a the Pilots Operating Handbook, or something like that. I could go dig it out of my files if I felt like it, which I don't. And it clearly states: no aerobatics. We used it in lieu of a dash-1 because that's all we had. This ground has been covered.

[BQZip01]

...too soon?

It's never too soon as long as it's funny

[Guest]

However it was violated by a crew member other than the pilot.

Fucking Navs.

[slackline]

Okay, I couldn't resist replying to this. I haven't been on in a while, so my original name, JorryFright21, was deleted or something.

For those of you bagging on the show of force or a friendly flyby for the guys on the ground, one question. Have you ever talked to any of the guys doing 365+ days on some FOB or constantly out on patrols about what it means to them when they see one of us come in and say hi? As Rainman said, it means a lot to them, more than you understand. Don't go crazy, don't completely disregard the rules, but you're living in a different world if you don't think that stuff is just as important as the rules themselves.

I don't showboat, but I'll definitely make sure the guys on the ground are fired up to kill some more terrorists when I leave.

BTW, none of this is a commentary on this specific incident with the -64, just the flat out disregard for the morale and how easily we can raise it for them with these little flybys. . Just because...

[Lawman]

Not sure, but I've heard from various sources that the "return to target" that they were doing is a prohibited maneuver in the AH-64. If so, that means these guys knowingly busted a reg and bent a helicopter as a direct result.

Your sources are wrong. Return to target is a perfectly acceptable maneuver. You can brief up go 60 +- pitch and 120 in roll, if your briefed for it. It's just not something you should be doing at 9000 MSL where the aircraft is power limited and the rate decent can't be rapidly arrested. You can do that maneuver for days Near sea level even with a heavily loaded bird.

The crew ######ed up got lucky they didn't kill anybody including themselves and for nothing more than someone trying to show off for YouTube. That's pretty much been the topic of conversation at more than a few company and battalion meetings in my unit.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Lawman

[cryoglobin]

Saw all of the speculation about how the video got out, and why it was not handled at the SQ level. Everyone knows it was recorded by one of the guys in the back and found by MX. If you did not know, the MC-12 has contract MX. The MX guy who found it took it to his boss, and it was up at the corporate level before anyone could crush it. If it had been active duty MX, it may have gone a different way.

But, no matter how you cut it, the dudes were morons. It wasn't like it was a secret that was buried in some obtusely worded line somewhere in the POH. It was on the damn flash cards that we all were told to memorize in IQT and was reiterated by the IQT instructor (mine at least).

Edited May 9, 2013 by cryoglobin

[HuggyU2]

Cryoglobin,

When did you go through the MC-12 training?

Were you at Bagram when it happened?

Do you know any of the 4 crew members involved personally?

Are you aware of anything,... via firsthand knowledge,... of the ensuing investigation?

Were you someone who was questioned by the interim investigating team at Bagram?

Curious. Please let me know.

[cryoglobin]

I finished at Meridian in early Sep of 2010. Was at Bagram from that time until late May 2011. To my knowledge, it never happened when I was there. However, the people that were involved in the investigation arrived towards the tail end (last month or so) of my deployment, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I knew both of the pilots involved on some level. One of them I saw and knew mostly in passing and maybe did a cert ride with him (honestly can't remember). We were on opposite shifts most of the time so I didn't see him that much. I knew the other pilot better because we were in the same squadron at a previous base. But, like the first one, I didn't have too much contact with him at Bagram because we were on opposite shifts. I do have some knowledge of the ensuing investigation, but not firsthand. Obviously, having just left there, I still knew a lot of people there. I know some of the stuff they were looking at and the outcome, though I never did hear what happened to one of the pilots. And, no one ever asked me any questions about anything.

Edited May 9, 2013 by cryoglobin

[HuggyU2]

I arrived Bagram ~20 June 2011 to fly the MC-12. Was there about 7 months, including during the time of said incident.

You mention you knew both of the pilots involved. Unless you are talking about additional instances, one of the pilots of the incident being referred to arrived well after you (approx Sept or Oct).

As for the issue of flashcards and such, I'm not sure what specifically you are referring to that was on those cards that was prohibited,... not that I remember them much anymore. I simply do not recall anything related to this incident.

I was an ADO in the squadron and was questioned in great detail and have some solid first hand information. I do not wish to discuss details on this or any forum.

The aircraft commander in question was in my opinion was the most knowledgeable and highly regarded pilot in the squadron. I strongly believe he is being made a scapegoat. I'm not willing to explain why.

Irrespective of what my or your opinion of that crew is, let me just say there is "more to the story".

In a few months after I retire, maybe I'll discuss it over a beer.

The "court of public opinion" is flawed.

[cryoglobin]

Yeah, I know where you are going with the more to the story part Huggy, but for obvious reasons going into that publicly is a very bad idea. I tried to send you a message, but it says you cannot receive any new messages.

Anyway, I was not trying to flame those two guys specifically, though it may have seemed that way. It was a general crushing for anyone who did it.

Those flashcards were given to us by FSI (not sure about the other contracts), and they told us that we needed to know them for our check ride. It is also stated in the POH and PTM that aerobatics are prohibited. Now, I know the argument can be made that those are not air force regulations, blah blah. But, anyone who performed that maneuver knew it was something they were not supposed to be doing and were morons for doing it.

[Jughead]

let me just say there is "more to the story".

In a few months after I retire, maybe I'll discuss it over a beer.

I'll take you up on that. Both the beer and the discussion!

[Hacker]

This won't end well for these guys:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article98900847.html

One uptown office worker on Twitter said the planes flew roughly even with the 42nd floor of the 48-story Duke Energy Center, which is 786 feet tall.

A Charlotte Douglas spokeswoman initially said Monday that the airport had been advised by air traffic controllers that the jets were practicing a flyover of Bank of America Stadium. But the FAA later said that was an erroneous report.

Panthers spokesman Steven Drummond said no stadium flyovers are currently planned for this season, although the team is trying to set one up for the home season opener against the San Francisco 49ers on Sept. 18. In any case, the planes would not be A-10s, he said.

[11F]

I led a flyby there not quite 6 years ago and can say it is an incredibly difficult stadium for flybys. That Duke Energy building is what makes it that way combined with the airport right nearby. But to do this unannounced without a game going on...c'mon, man, make it worth it!

Link for perspective and for gratuity:

Irrelevant info: My wing commander was there that day to put even more pressure on. I apologize for the position of #4. He was debriefed to choke himself accordingly.

[Hacker]

Nice vapes!

[DFRESH]

Video proof that you guys got the chemtrail mod!