IFS and the right sight picture......

[tkc10chief]

Is your next stop UPT? You've got to go through AETC to get your wings, might as well adopt the pain now

Sorry, let me clarify. I am currently a Rated Air Battle Manager and will be going TDY to IFS for RPA's, then PCS to Randolph after I successfully complete the screening program. The only reason I ask is that I am coming from an operational squadron to go TDY. (I will still technically be assigned to PACAF, not AETC until after I PCS post IFS). Again I have no problem adapting to the IFS way of doing things if that is what they require, just wondered.

Edited March 19, 2012 by tkc10chief

[mp5g]

Getting there a day early really won't make that much of a difference. In-processing usually only takes an hour at most, if there is a line at medical. Only if you want to get there a day early would I suggest doing that.

As for the patches, you will only be wearing a nametag and an AETC patch on your flightsuit. If you don't have an AETC patch, then one can be provided to you by the cadre at IFS. Your shoulder patches will be your Flight patch and your 1 FTS Squadron patch that you receive once you solo.

[tkc10chief]

Getting there a day early really won't make that much of a difference. In-processing usually only takes an hour at most, if there is a line at medical. Only if you want to get there a day early would I suggest doing that.

As for the patches, you will only be wearing a nametag and an AETC patch on your flightsuit. If you don't have an AETC patch, then one can be provided to you by the cadre at IFS. Your shoulder patches will be your Flight patch and your 1 FTS Squadron patch that you receive once you solo.

Thanks. That answers my questions.

[Smokey]

Two quick questions that I can't seem to find an answer to:

1. I'm arriving to the local airport on Day 0 at about 1015. So I will have to change into blues once I get my room assignment. Anyone recommend getting there a day early. Yes I know I will pay that cost, but I'm coming from Alaska and will be taking a red eye out, i.e midnight T/O, and flying all night to get there.

Also I read about the AETC patches which I have from previous tech schools, but I am coming TDY from an operational flying squadron...do I replace my MAJCOM patch and any others to conform (I have no issues with it, just wondered)

About the only advantage to arriving a day early would be adjusting your body clock from Alaskan time. Day one starts pretty early and is long. There will be a welcome briefing by your new Flt CC. You'll also be doing the PFT on day one. So if you think it would help and can get the orders adjusted, I'd say go for it. Day 1 through 4 are mostly in an auditorium with briefings and academics.......wouldn't want you to fall asleep!

Uniform policy is really the domain of the 1st FTS, not Doss. What I can tell you is that most wear the AETC patch and their unit name tag. As previously stated, the sholders are kept for the class/flight patch and then 1st FTS patch. If you can't find an old AETC patch, the 1st can provide one. "Patch wearers" get a pass obviously on wearing the weapons school patch.

Day 0 in-processing really only takes an hour or so.

Hope my additional 2 cents helps. What class you in?

Cheers,

Smokey

Edited March 22, 2012 by Smokey

[Guest]

Also I read about the AETC patches which I have from previous tech schools, but I am coming TDY from an operational flying squadron...do I replace my MAJCOM patch and any others to conform (I have no issues with it, just wondered)

Keep your MAJCOM patches and use every opportunity to scoff Air et cetera command.

Technique only.

[tkc10chief]

About the only advantage to arriving a day early would be adjusting your body clock from Alaskan time. Day one starts pretty early and is long. There will be a welcome briefing by your new Flt CC. You'll also be doing the PFT on day one. So if you think it would help and can get the orders adjusted, I'd say go for it. Day 1 through 4 are mostly in an auditorium with briefings and academics.......wouldn't want you to fall asleep!

Uniform policy is really the domain of the 1st FTS, not Doss. What I can tell you is that most wear the AETC patch and their unit name tag. As previously stated, the sholders are kept for the class/flight patch and then 1st FTS patch. If you can't find an old AETC patch, the 1st can provide one. "Patch wearers" get a pass obviously on wearing the weapons school patch.

Day 0 in-processing really only takes an hour or so.

Hope my additional 2 cents helps. What class you in?

Cheers,

Smokey

Training RIP says I start 31 May. Not sure the class number though. In preparation for IFS, I'm trying to solo before I head down (my CC recommended it), got the BF/OL memorized, have read through the local operating procedures a few times, and looked over the DA-20 C-1 model Aircraft systems.

I may be paranoid or possibly concerned after reading through the posts but I believe mission success starts with proper mission planning and I have seen things go very wrong when you don't...I want to ensure I step out the door as prepared as I can be within my control. Other than that I'll show up ready to learn, help others where I can, and give it my all.

Edited March 23, 2012 by tkc10chief

[thrombolli]

Training RIP says I start 31 May. Not sure the class number though. In preparation for IFS, I'm trying to solo before I head down (my CC recommended it), got the BF/OL memorized, have read through the local operating procedures a few times, and looked over the DA-20 C-1 model Aircraft systems.

I may be paranoid or possibly concerned after reading through the posts but I believe mission success starts with proper mission planning and I have seen things go very wrong when you don't...I want to ensure I step out the door as prepared as I can be within my control. Other than that I'll show up ready to learn, help others where I can, and give it my all.

If your RIP says you start May 31, youll show up and inprocess May 30. I'm a recent graduate of IFS (as in graduated a few days ago). I had absolutely zero hours, never read any gouge before I came, and I did just fine. I would say, yes, you're a little paranoid haha. IMO studying gouge before you come wont get you very far, raw knowledge here about local flying procedures isn't good enough...you have to be able to APPLY that knowledge to real-world phyical motions in the airplane and over time create muscle memory. The only way you can acheive that is to actually be in Pueblo flying a da20 or using your imagination in a da20 cockpit trainer(both are equally as important). What I'm trying to say is the things that will make you the best IFS pilot are not available until you get to IFS. During the first week of academics they'll say "study those quizzes and chair fly when you can." I say absolutely YES STUDY THOSE QUIZZES!! but chairflying BEFORE you do your dollar ride is absolutely rediculous, foolish, and a waste of time. I would say just know your Bold Face and Ops Limits really well, try to memorize some of the black ones if possible, and also memorize the phrase "FUEL PUMP - ON, MIXTURE - FULL RICH" you will say and use it ALL the time. Other than that, you can't do much before you come, getting flight time in helps im sure, but like you said "I'll show up ready to learn, help others where I can, and give it my all." THAT'S the best thing you can do. just do your thing and you'll be fine. It might be hard, but you'll realize you actually prefer it that way. You get to fly airplanes for free everyday for goodness sake, how bad can it be?

[mp5g]

During the first week of academics they'll say "study those quizzes and chair fly when you can." I say absolutely YES STUDY THOSE QUIZZES!! but chairflying BEFORE you do your dollar ride is absolutely rediculous, foolish, and a waste of time.

I agree with the studying quizzes as much as possible during the first week, but I think it's a huge mistake not to chairfly before your dollar ride. Now, let me preference this with the fact that I had about 100 hours of prior time, so I was a little more used to procedures than some of the guys with no time.

That being said, there will be a lot going on the first time you go up. In my opinion, it would be to your advantage to be as familiar as possible with the procedures so that while you are enjoying your ride, you are already getting into the routine of how things are done. This will put you that much more ahead of the "power curve" when you get into your later 200 block and 300 block flights. IMO, the biggest thing they are looking for to advance someone through IFS is being able to apply the procedures correctly while being safe.

[Guest]

In my opinion, it would be to your advantage to be as familiar as possible with the procedures so that while you are enjoying your ride, you are already getting into the routine of how things are done.

I wouldn't plan on enjoying anything. Just buckle down and get through it.

I know I didn't enjoy any of my FSP time at Hondo (way back when) and I didn't want to. I knew it was a screening program and I saw it as a fight for my future. There were three other dudes in my class who were also going to Rucker for UPT-H. All four of us made it but only 10 of 23 graduated. Three WSOs got washed out, in the Cessna. When we first showed upall three of them said they all said they weren't too worried about FSP and were there to enjoy San Antonio before they went to UPT . They were crushed when they washed out and I couldn't believe it myself.

Consider the program a threat. Study your ass off, as if the rest of your life depended upon it. Do exactly what the IPs tell you to do, nothing more and nothing less.

And don't be a fuck up.

[Smokey]

Training RIP says I start 31 May. Not sure the class number though. In preparation for IFS, I'm trying to solo before I head down (my CC recommended it), got the BF/OL memorized, have read through the local operating procedures a few times, and looked over the DA-20 C-1 model Aircraft systems.

I may be paranoid or possibly concerned after reading through the posts but I believe mission success starts with proper mission planning and I have seen things go very wrong when you don't...I want to ensure I step out the door as prepared as I can be within my control. Other than that I'll show up ready to learn, help others where I can, and give it my all.

Chief,

There have always been two schools of thought on how to approach this. My 2 cents General Knowledge wise, coming through the front door with the BF and Ops Limits mastered will put you in the top 50% of your peers day one. The Local Flying Procedures you are reviewing, unless you got them from a recent (1 Jan 12 or later) graduate are way out of date. If you're using what used to be posted on the Base Ops page, while much is still valid, there is a lot of information that isn't. You don't know what is or isn't correct so studying bad gouge does you no good. You're only going to have to unlearn the wrong stuff which is almost like "practice bleeding." Why do it? Most of the items on the website were removed at my request because of that reason. The academics info still available doesn't really change that much so will essentially be okay to go through if you'd like prior to arrival.

Those are the realities when you have a combined publication that would mirror both, as an example, the T-6 operating manual (AFM 11-248) and any given UPT base's Local Procedures. Sadly, whatever the reason for a change (standardization, etc.) when you make one change.....it can drive 10 others.

Getting some flying time couldn't hurt. Just stick to the basics of aircraft control/performance and the landing sight picture. I don't know if you even need to solo. To do so you'll have to do more than will really help you walking through the door. Just remember, we'll teach you the way we want you to do everything when you get here. And, you'll be expected to do it exactly that way. In your flying training, stick to traffic pattern operations (still won't be "our way" but will help you develop a cross-check) as well as constant airspeed climbs, cruise, and descents. Speeding up or slowing down while holding altitude, etc. Basic pitch, power, coordinated flight, and trim. If you have the basics down walking through the door, you'll be able to concentrate on learning and performing the maneuvers to proficiency rather than first having to struggle with the concepts of basic aircraft control and cross-check.

Again, my 2 cent recommendation. I do applaud your effort though. Keep a reasonable sight picture in your preparation and then get ready to go full throttle the day you walk in the front door from day 1 to graduation. While UPT is a fire hose, there is an occasional "valley" in the work load and more like a marathon. IFS is more of a sprint requiring 100% plus every day.

Smokey

Edited March 29, 2012 by Smokey

[Smokey]

I agree with the studying quizzes as much as possible during the first week, but I think it's a huge mistake not to chairfly before your dollar ride. Now, let me preference this with the fact that I had about 100 hours of prior time, so I was a little more used to procedures than some of the guys with no time.

That being said, there will be a lot going on the first time you go up. In my opinion, it would be to your advantage to be as familiar as possible with the procedures so that while you are enjoying your ride, you are already getting into the routine of how things are done. This will put you that much more ahead of the "power curve" when you get into your later 200 block and 300 block flights. IMO, the biggest thing they are looking for to advance someone through IFS is being able to apply the procedures correctly while being safe.

Prior to the dollar ride, the chair flying would best be performed in the CPT or in front of a panel display learning where things are through muscle memory and learning the normal checklist flows and including all associated callouts and challenge/response items. Over and over and over....... Then an IFS student will struggle less with the "admin" and be able to focus more on the flying during the dollar ride.

In other words for all those coming to IFS, rather than running your first cockpit pre-flight, climb check, etc., on your dollar ride, practice it however many times necessary to know what you're supposed to do inflight enough at ground speed zero to become proficient. That way you won't run out of "brain bytes" and loose out on learning the sight pictures to achieve the desired aircraft performance due to task overload trying to run a checklist and find switch "X".

An IFS student will do good for themselves if the first time they've tried to accomplish the normal procedures isn't on the dollar ride.

And, wasn't really meant for you. Just thought I'd reply to all through your post.

Smokey

Edited March 29, 2012 by Smokey

[WeagleWeagle]

Just remember, we'll teach you the way we want you to do everything when you get here.

...

While UPT is a fire hose, there is an occasional "valley" in the work load and more like a marathon.

I'll caveat what I'm about to say by seconding that any and all preparation will only serve to help and not hinder you at IFS and anywhere down the line.

Disclaimer aside, I finished IFS within the last few months and aside from the initial academics and the first few flights, the supposed "fire hose" was not that challenging. There were plenty of those work load "valleys" at Doss as well. I was a zero-hour guy coming in, but pretty much breezed through the program and got seriously bored throughout the last two thirds of it. By that point I was spending about an hour a day doing mission planning and maybe another 30 minutes studying General Knowledge. The rest of your days you can pretty much plan on watching a lot of Hulu and playing volleyball with the other studs.

I'm not god's gift to aviation by any means, but I didn't come close to hooking any rides either. My suggestion to all is to simply chill out, and don't fret about studying anything but Boldface/OL before you arrive. You will have ample opportunity to learn everything by heart when you are there.

[yzl337]

I'll caveat what I'm about to say by seconding that any and all preparation will only serve to help and not hinder you at IFS and anywhere down the line.

Disclaimer aside, I finished IFS within the last few months and aside from the initial academics and the first few flights, the supposed "fire hose" was not that challenging. There were plenty of those work load "valleys" at Doss as well. I was a zero-hour guy coming in, but pretty much breezed through the program and got seriously bored throughout the last two thirds of it. By that point I was spending about an hour a day doing mission planning and maybe another 30 minutes studying General Knowledge. The rest of your days you can pretty much plan on watching a lot of Hulu and playing volleyball with the other studs.

I'm not god's gift to aviation by any means, but I didn't come close to hooking any rides either. My suggestion to all is to simply chill out, and don't fret about studying anything but Boldface/OL before you arrive. You will have ample opportunity to learn everything by heart when you are there.

Do you give autographs?

[WeagleWeagle]

Do you give autographs?

It's tough to negate the forum's general opinion about IFS without coming off cocky. I had my moments of stupidity and slowness just like most others do, which is precisely why I figure I'm an average student who is in a position to make a broad statement about the program.

[Smokey]

I'll caveat what I'm about to say by seconding that any and all preparation will only serve to help and not hinder you at IFS and anywhere down the line.

Disclaimer aside, I finished IFS within the last few months and aside from the initial academics and the first few flights, the supposed "fire hose" was not that challenging. There were plenty of those work load "valleys" at Doss as well. I was a zero-hour guy coming in, but pretty much breezed through the program and got seriously bored throughout the last two thirds of it. By that point I was spending about an hour a day doing mission planning and maybe another 30 minutes studying General Knowledge. The rest of your days you can pretty much plan on watching a lot of Hulu and playing volleyball with the other studs.

I'm not god's gift to aviation by any means, but I didn't come close to hooking any rides either. My suggestion to all is to simply chill out, and don't fret about studying anything but Boldface/OL before you arrive. You will have ample opportunity to learn everything by heart when you are there.

As I said, there are two schools of thought on the subject. And, to a point, I agree with you.

Part of what IFS "teaches" a student is how they need to approach the courseware in a manner that is efficient and effective for them.......learning how to learn, so to speak. Sounds like you figured out what worked for you quickly. Nothing wrong with free time. When I counsel students not doing well in the program, I tell them they do have to manage their time efficiently and find some time to "switch off" and have some fun.

And, for others out there, when I say "we'll teach what we want you to do", it doesn't mean that anyone will spoon feed you. You're expected to show for any sortie prepared in accordance with the playbook guidance. There are no surprises at IFS. We tell you what to perform on each sortie, what the checkride will consist of including EPs and GK for the ground eval, etc. Some aren't as quick on the uptake as you are.

Contrary to what some think, we do "train" at IFS. The screening comes from the demands of the syllabus and the fact you don't have unlimited access to IP's. You get them for 3 hours at a shot. If a student shows up prepared, the focus can be on the "how" of flying any given maneuver. If you show up unprepared, time is wasted on the "what" (maneuver description, parameter, restrictions, etc.) to the detriment of the student. In the case of the latter, although a given maneuver was demo'd and then performed, IMO the student missed an opportunity to focus on the execution devoting brain bytes to the setup, etc., when they should have learned that on their time at ground speed zero.

Oh, and I stated UPT was a "fire hose." Most of us consider IFS to be a garden hose in comparision to the depth and breadth of the academics, etc., at the UPT level.

Congrats, and good luck at the next phase!

Smokey

Edited April 2, 2012 by Smokey

[Guest]

Do you give autographs?

Awesome.

[Fuzz]

Oh, and I stated UPT was a "fire hose." Most of us consider IFS to be a garden hose in comparision to the depth and breadth of the academics, etc., at the UPT level.

Huge 2 on this right here. I left IFS thinking I had a little bit of a handle on what it takes to be a pilot... 10 months later and 100+ hours I'm still not even close. If you think memorizing a couple BF/OLs or the VFR cloud clearances are bad just wait till the stack of regs and tech orders you need to know by almost instant recall is almost a foot and a half high.

That being said for me, while I didn't have a problem adjusting to IFS and did well there, the difference looking back was the time frame. Having 3 days of academics versus 6 weeks or 3 weeks of flying versus 5 months in the T-6 makes the firehose effect IMHO seem much worse.

[Smokey]

Huge 2 on this right here. I left IFS thinking I had a little bit of a handle on what it takes to be a pilot... 10 months later and 100+ hours I'm still not even close. If you think memorizing a couple BF/OLs or the VFR cloud clearances are bad just wait till the stack of regs and tech orders you need to know by almost instant recall is almost a foot and a half high.

That being said for me, while I didn't have a problem adjusting to IFS and did well there, the difference looking back was the time frame. Having 3 days of academics versus 6 weeks or 3 weeks of flying versus 5 months in the T-6 makes the firehose effect IMHO seem much worse.

All true. IFS gives one a glimpse into what UPT is going to be like. We emulate it to the degree possible based on the requirements of the limited syllabus and training foot print. UPT is still going to be more of a true fire hose. We teach topics that may be spread a mile wide in width but only go an inch deep into them. In UPT, the information is both a mile wide and a mile deep.

Fly safe and do well.

Smokey

[tkc10chief]

Smokey,

I emailed the registrar and have been trying to call as well to find out if me and a co-worker need to bring our flight records from our base HARM office. I don't see why IFS needs to see them, but our HARM office was wanting to know if they need to sign them out to us.

Edited April 13, 2012 by tkc10chief

[Smokey]

Smokey,

I emailed the registrar and have been trying to call as well to find out if me and a co-worker need to bring our flight records from our base HARM office. I don't see why IFS needs to see them, but our HARM office was wanting to know if they need to sign them out to us.

Chief,

I don't believe the requirement exists. I'll ask the 1st and see if I can get an answer back to you. Prior rated time logged in another capacity really doesn't matter at IFS. IFS is a prerequisite to entering UPT. If I don't get back to you in time, I'd say don't worry about it. We do not have a HARMs interface anyway although we fill out 781's like you will at UPT through GTIMS. Any time you want credit for will need to be logged in a personal logbook.

Smokey

Edited April 14, 2012 by Smokey

[brabus]

We teach topics that may be spread a mile wide in width but only go an inch deep into them. In UPT, the information is both a mile wide and a mile deep.

The real question is do you guys have a bar that's a foot wide, but a mile long?

Edited April 16, 2012 by brabus

[Smokey]

The real question is do you guys have a bar that's a foot wide, but a mile long?

I wish.........

Cheers,

Smokey

[WeagleWeagle]

I wish.........

Cheers,

Smokey

So do I. On party night I was on 9th go, and the fluids on concern ran out before I was even through debriefing!

[tkc10chief]

So do I. On party night I was on 9th go, and the fluids on concern ran out before I was even through debriefing!

Fail. Apparently being a good Wingman and saving you a cold one was not a number one priority...Blues for all, for failure to look out for a fellow student.

[Guest]

Blues for all, for failure to look out for a fellow student.

Super fail.

Lose the shoe clerk bullshit. Immediately.

The correct response is a do over and a fine...from a 12 pack to a keg, as required.