IFS and the right sight picture......

[tkc10chief]

Super fail.

Lose the shoe clerk bullshit. Immediately.

The correct response is a do over and a fine...from a 12 pack to a keg, as required.

Noted! My suggestion was only a mere joke, I wish blues on no one. I think buying kegs has been the worst type of punishment I've seen and that is usually reserved for frats during exercises...

[Hacker]

Unfortunately, Rainman, I've seen the "blues as punishment" at use even in the fast-mover world more than I'd like to admit.

Fighter culture has taken a massive amount of battle damage in the last 10 years and is a seriously wounded bird at present.

[Cougar Driver]

All true. IFS gives one a glimpse into what UPT is going to be like.

Well said...for any guys w/ a fair amount of prior time, like myself, this is what you're going to learn, since you should already know how to fly. Learn the BOLDFACE, how to put up with AETC queep (which IFS IPs do a fantastic job of imitating), how to do a tabletop EP, and how to design a wildly inappropriate (but on the surface, clean) class patch that will still get approved.

About the only advantage to arriving a day early would be adjusting your body clock from Alaskan time. Day one starts pretty early and is long. There will be a welcome briefing by your new Flt CC. You'll also be doing the PFT on day one. So if you think it would help and can get the orders adjusted, I'd say go for it. Day 1 through 4 are mostly in an auditorium with briefings and academics.......wouldn't want you to fall asleep!

Uniform policy is really the domain of the 1st FTS, not Doss. What I can tell you is that most wear the AETC patch and their unit name tag. As previously stated, the sholders are kept for the class/flight patch and then 1st FTS patch. If you can't find an old AETC patch, the 1st can provide one. "Patch wearers" get a pass obviously on wearing the weapons school patch.

Day 0 in-processing really only takes an hour or so.

That PFT is no joke. If you're not from the Academy, and run an average 1.5 mile time (11:30 or slower), you're in danger of failing if they're using the new PT standards. Not that it's a real PT test that'll end up on your record, but prepare accordingly...

I'll caveat what I'm about to say by seconding that any and all preparation will only serve to help and not hinder you at IFS and anywhere down the line.

Disclaimer aside, I finished IFS within the last few months and aside from the initial academics and the first few flights, the supposed "fire hose" was not that challenging. There were plenty of those work load "valleys" at Doss as well. I was a zero-hour guy coming in, but pretty much breezed through the program and got seriously bored throughout the last two thirds of it. By that point I was spending about an hour a day doing mission planning and maybe another 30 minutes studying General Knowledge. The rest of your days you can pretty much plan on watching a lot of Hulu and playing volleyball with the other studs.

I'm not god's gift to aviation by any means, but I didn't come close to hooking any rides either. My suggestion to all is to simply chill out, and don't fret about studying anything but Boldface/OL before you arrive. You will have ample opportunity to learn everything by heart when you are there.

Finally, some common sense from one of the many people that didn't struggle at IFS. Here's some real advice: If you have a lot of prior time, don't tell anyone. Don't raise your hand when they ask who the PPL/Comm/CFI-rated guys in the audience are, and definitely don't tell your IPs unless they bring it up or notice. FWIW, the guy in your class with the most prior hours will be the SRO. That job sucks, but is easy to do well.

If you you have some prior time (solo-PPL), don't take it for granted as it probably won't help that much. Learn the BF/Ops Limits cold, but don't stress about it. It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to learn. Practice writing it down while sitting at "modified attention," using a checklist as a clipboard, and giving yourself a 10 minute time limit. That's the best practice you'll get...and if you show up day 1 and some poor soul in your class doesn't have a kneeboard to write on, don't be a douche and help the guy out.

For everyone else, if you have no time, don't stress out. Study Gleim, AOPA, or Sporty's PPL test bank (~600 questions or so) until you know all the answers (might take some time). Once you have that down, you'll ace the academics. Know the BF before you show up. Pay attention during ground week and bank some sleep, and study what the IPs tell you to do. The In-Flt Guide and the checklist should be your bible starting week two. After your dollar ride, start chairflying...but focus on procedures, radio calls, checklists, and timing. Practicing steep turns and sight pictures in a chair won't make you a better pilot. Memorizing radio calls so you don't have to think about them while you're trying to fly will.

Finally, bring a computer/iPad w/ plenty of movies on it and a good book. Hell, I even brought my Xbox (not recommended...). Go to the store your first day there (bring a car if able) and buy some booze and snacks. Settle into your little cave and learn to relax! Take Saturday off, go catch a baseball game, go hiking, or go out to eat. Studying for 6 hours a day won't help you if you're constantly stressing out. The guys in my class who washed out didn't do so because they weren't smart enough or good enough. They failed because they couldn't take the implied stress that's imposed on you. Enjoy your 3-6 weeks in Pueblo, learn what you can, BS the rest, cooperate to graduate (help your bros), and move on. Good luck!

Edit: "don't be a douche and help the guy out" = "help the guy out"

Edited May 13, 2012 by Cougar Driver

[tkc10chief]

Well said...for any guys w/ a fair amount of prior time, like myself, this is what you're going to learn, since you should already know how to fly. Learn the BOLDFACE, how to put up with AETC queep (which IFS IPs do a fantastic job of imitating), how to do a tabletop EP, and how to design a wildly inappropriate (but on the surface, clean) class patch that will still get approved.

That PFT is no joke. If you're not from the Academy, and run an average 1.5 mile time (11:30 or slower), you're in danger of failing if they're using the new PT standards. Not that it's a real PT test that'll end up on your record, but prepare accordingly...

Finally, some common sense from one of the many people that didn't struggle at IFS. Here's some real advice: If you have a lot of prior time, don't tell anyone. Don't raise your hand when they ask who the PPL/Comm/CFI-rated guys in the audience are, and definitely don't tell your IPs unless they bring it up or notice. FWIW, the guy in your class with the most prior hours will be the SRO. That job sucks, but is easy to do well.

If you you have some prior time (solo-PPL), don't take it for granted as it probably won't help that much. Learn the BF/Ops Limits cold, but don't stress about it. It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to learn. Practice writing it down while sitting at "modified attention," using a checklist as a clipboard, and giving yourself a 10 minute time limit. That's the best practice you'll get...and if you show up day 1 and some poor soul in your class doesn't have a kneeboard to write on, don't be a douche and help the guy out.

For everyone else, if you have no time, don't stress out. Study Gleim, AOPA, or Sporty's PPL test bank (~600 questions or so) until you know all the answers (might take some time). Once you have that down, you'll ace the academics. Know the BF before you show up. Pay attention during ground week and bank some sleep, and study what the IPs tell you to do. The In-Flt Guide and the checklist should be your bible starting week two. After your dollar ride, start chairflying...but focus on procedures, radio calls, checklists, and timing. Practicing steep turns and sight pictures in a chair won't make you a better pilot. Memorizing radio calls so you don't have to think about them while you're trying to fly will.

Finally, bring a computer/iPad w/ plenty of movies on it and a good book. Hell, I even brought my Xbox (not recommended...). Go to the store your first day there (bring a car if able) and buy some booze and snacks. Settle into your little cave and learn to relax! Take Saturday off, go catch a baseball game, go hiking, or go out to eat. Studying for 6 hours a day won't help you if you're constantly stressing out. The guys in my class who washed out didn't do so because they weren't smart enough or good enough. They failed because they couldn't take the implied stress that's imposed on you. Enjoy your 3-6 weeks in Pueblo, learn what you can, BS the rest, cooperate to graduate (help your bros), and move on. Good luck!

Edit: "don't be a douche and help the guy out" = "help the guy out"

Thanks for the advice Cougar. I'm heading there in about two weeks.

[HuggyU2]

...buying kegs has been the worst type of punishment I've seen and that is usually reserved for frats during exercises...

Or getting your nugget shaved.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Huggyu2

[Archa3opt3ryx]

Well said...for any guys w/ a fair amount of prior time, like myself, this is what you're going to learn, since you should already know how to fly. Learn the BOLDFACE, how to put up with AETC queep (which IFS IPs do a fantastic job of imitating), how to do a tabletop EP, and how to design a wildly inappropriate (but on the surface, clean) class patch that will still get approved.

That PFT is no joke. If you're not from the Academy, and run an average 1.5 mile time (11:30 or slower), you're in danger of failing if they're using the new PT standards. Not that it's a real PT test that'll end up on your record, but prepare accordingly...

Finally, some common sense from one of the many people that didn't struggle at IFS. Here's some real advice: If you have a lot of prior time, don't tell anyone. Don't raise your hand when they ask who the PPL/Comm/CFI-rated guys in the audience are, and definitely don't tell your IPs unless they bring it up or notice. FWIW, the guy in your class with the most prior hours will be the SRO. That job sucks, but is easy to do well.

If you you have some prior time (solo-PPL), don't take it for granted as it probably won't help that much. Learn the BF/Ops Limits cold, but don't stress about it. It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to learn. Practice writing it down while sitting at "modified attention," using a checklist as a clipboard, and giving yourself a 10 minute time limit. That's the best practice you'll get...and if you show up day 1 and some poor soul in your class doesn't have a kneeboard to write on, don't be a douche and help the guy out.

For everyone else, if you have no time, don't stress out. Study Gleim, AOPA, or Sporty's PPL test bank (~600 questions or so) until you know all the answers (might take some time). Once you have that down, you'll ace the academics. Know the BF before you show up. Pay attention during ground week and bank some sleep, and study what the IPs tell you to do. The In-Flt Guide and the checklist should be your bible starting week two. After your dollar ride, start chairflying...but focus on procedures, radio calls, checklists, and timing. Practicing steep turns and sight pictures in a chair won't make you a better pilot. Memorizing radio calls so you don't have to think about them while you're trying to fly will.

Finally, bring a computer/iPad w/ plenty of movies on it and a good book. Hell, I even brought my Xbox (not recommended...). Go to the store your first day there (bring a car if able) and buy some booze and snacks. Settle into your little cave and learn to relax! Take Saturday off, go catch a baseball game, go hiking, or go out to eat. Studying for 6 hours a day won't help you if you're constantly stressing out. The guys in my class who washed out didn't do so because they weren't smart enough or good enough. They failed because they couldn't take the implied stress that's imposed on you. Enjoy your 3-6 weeks in Pueblo, learn what you can, BS the rest, cooperate to graduate (help your bros), and move on. Good luck!

Edit: "don't be a douche and help the guy out" = "help the guy out"

Noted, thanks. +1 on the PFT. I'm from Colorado but go to school on the east coast (poor choice), and when I come home after a semester away from CO, the first few runs are pretty brutal. Expect to add ~10% to your time due to altitude.

Speaking of which, any reason why I wouldn't be able to go home on a weekend? It's about a 3 hour drive.

I think the thing I'm most nervous about is the memorization. I really suck at it. Any tips there, other than just writing it out over and over and over again?

Edited May 24, 2012 by LoneWolf121188

[Fuzz]

Get a rubik's cube or bounce a tennis ball off the wall while saying them, the problem remembering BF/OL isn't when you are sitting in your room going over it, it is when you are standing at attention in front of 28 people you met 4 days ago, trying to think through an emergency scenario about an airplane you barely know about in detail. Same goes for pretty much everything else (ground ops, checklists, maneuvers ect.)

[Smokey]

Noted, thanks. +1 on the PFT. I'm from Colorado but go to school on the east coast (poor choice), and when I come home after a semester away from CO, the first few runs are pretty brutal. Expect to add ~10% to your time due to altitude.

Speaking of which, any reason why I wouldn't be able to go home on a weekend? It's about a 3 hour drive.

I think the thing I'm most nervous about is the memorization. I really suck at it. Any tips there, other than just writing it out over and over and over again?

Think you had one tip in a following post in addition to your own suggestion..."over and over and over again." One of the things you'll take from IFS is some insight into what you need to do for you to learn efficiently and meet the requirements being placed on you.

Writing it out. 3 x 5 flash cards. Over and over repitition. A combination of the options. Gotta figure out what works for you.

In addition, while the material is not really that much volume, it is for many in relation to the limited timeline to internalize the information.

You'll need to prioritize the information and attack it in a controlled fashion rather than going for everything all at once for most people. Granted, time is limited. However, you can't eat the "giant meatball" all at once. You have to tackle it bite by bite.

Smokey

Get a rubik's cube or bounce a tennis ball off the wall while saying them, the problem remembering BF/OL isn't when you are sitting in your room going over it, it is when you are standing at attention in front of 28 people you met 4 days ago, trying to think through an emergency scenario about an airplane you barely know about in detail. Same goes for pretty much everything else (ground ops, checklists, maneuvers ect.)

Well said.

[Danger41]

Having 3 days of academics versus 6 weeks or 3 weeks of flying versus 5 months in the T-6 makes the firehose effect IMHO seem much worse.

I always tell people this when they ask about pilot training. It wasn't necessarily hard, but it was relentless. Right about the time you get the hang of something, the games changes and you have to learn all your crap again. Just stay consistent with it and (like Smokey said) find what works for you.

[matmacwc]

I give this program 2 more years, then the powers that be will realize private lessons at or near a pilot training base is cheaper. The STURON can be a powerful entity. Just look at the history of these programs.

Edited June 22, 2012 by matmacwc

[Learjetter]

I give this program 2 more years, then the powers that be will realize private lessons at or near a pilot training base is cheaper. The STURON can be a powerful entity. Just look at the history of these programs.

Back in the Hondo days, they experimented with cadets getting private pilot licenses at the local flight school instead of attending formal flight screening. I was the test cadet at my school. Loved it. But there was ZERO "screening"--just 44 hours in 152 & 172s and the PPL check ride. Cost uncle $2600 and I started April 2 and finished July 27.

There's a reason big blue keeps returning to the "screening" concept.

[Hacker]

I give this program 2 more years, then the powers that be will realize private lessons at or near a pilot training base is cheaper. The STURON can be a powerful entity. Just look at the history of these programs.

I agree with Learjetter -- if you look at the history, I think you'll find that the data supports an institutionally-run screening program significantly more than it supports a civilian-run IFT-type program that builds GA experience but does zero screening.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Hacker

[matmacwc]

Your both right, that's why I give it 2 years.

[CJ-6A]

I thought it was a good program overall... definitely had some doubts going in based on other people's observations, but those were proven to be inaccurate. The only bad part about it was seeing people DOR who "didn't really even want to be a pilot" or "only picked pilot on their application because their ROTC Commander forced them into it"...sorry, but not much sympathy here.

It wasn't especially difficult for guys with a significant amount of prior time (and it really depends on what type of prior flight time that is), just different and required a bit of adaptation and study - as expected. The IPs are all really experienced and professional. The academics were great and interesting.

I really can't wrap my head around why anyone would go into a pilot career field (starting at IFS) with zero civilian flight time. Why not go rent an airplane and see if you even like it? A few people didn't seem to think flying was for them. Some people get washed out for not being able to land...some people for being perpetually airsick. Having an exposure to flying, however small, probably won't hurt.

[Danny Noonin]

The only bad part about it was seeing people DOR who "didn't really even want to be a pilot"

Age old attempt to save face for people who suck and are afraid to risk washing out or who can't stand the pressure and just pussed out.

[so.it.goes]

I thought it was a good program overall... definitely had some doubts going in based on other people's observations, but those were proven to be inaccurate. The only bad part about it was seeing people DOR who "didn't really even want to be a pilot" or "only picked pilot on their application because their ROTC Commander forced them into it"...sorry, but not much sympathy here.

It wasn't especially difficult for guys with a significant amount of prior time (and it really depends on what type of prior flight time that is), just different and required a bit of adaptation and study - as expected. The IPs are all really experienced and professional. The academics were great and interesting.

I really can't wrap my head around why anyone would go into a pilot career field (starting at IFS) with zero civilian flight time. Why not go rent an airplane and see if you even like it? A few people didn't seem to think flying was for them. Some people get washed out for not being able to land...some people for being perpetually airsick. Having an exposure to flying, however small, probably won't hurt.

Did you have many zero hour people? It sounds like it was mostly ROTC wash-outs?

[Smokey]

I give this program 2 more years, then the powers that be will realize private lessons at or near a pilot training base is cheaper. The STURON can be a powerful entity. Just look at the history of these programs.

Matmacwc,

Actually, there are many studies that have been done. You can google for them. They show time and time again that the Air Force see's undesirable attrition at UPT at a cost per flight hour that makes IFS a bargain. They saw it again during the period between the T-3 and the beginning of the current IFS.

Certainly, attrition still occurs in UPT even with IFS. It is, however, much lower.

At IFS, we have no target attrition level. The goal is to screen those without the potential to succeed at the next level. That attrition comes from flying issues, failure to adapt (airsick), MOA, and DOR (old guy SIE).

IFS is limited in its scope. I wish it had some type of exposure to acro or formation (both as pure FAM flying after a successful checkride). And I could go on. The syllabus is a product of the Air Force, and we execute it. We just got informed of intention by the AF to renew the contract for FY2013.

What the Air Force has learned is that no other type of program will offer the standardization they need when trying to achieve their target screening effect.

IFS is hard. It's meant to be. And, no, you don't get the type of training we provide at an FBO. Period.

Just did two UPT base visits last month....they like what we're doing.

Smokey

[Dukeorions]

Tell us about your progress through the UFT process. What is your academic average. How are you doing relative to your peers. Are you a leader/mentorer or a GDI? If you are that good, are you sitting down with your classmates to help them chair fly or with GK?

Smokey

Finished T6s number 1 in my class. Above average academics. Flight CC ranking of #3. T-38 dollar rides approaching fast.

[Termy]

Finished T6s number 1 in my class. Above average academics. Flight CC ranking of #3. T-38 dollar rides approaching fast.

Nice work. It's ok to be confident; in fact, I prefer my wingman to be very confident.

[so.it.goes]

Nice work. It's ok to be confident; in fact, I prefer my wingman to be very confident.

You can be my wingman anytime...

[CJ-6A]

Did you have many zero hour people? It sounds like it was mostly ROTC wash-outs?

There were mostly zero hour people in my class. Not that there's anything wrong with that... however, it would just seem to make sense that if flying is what you wanted to do for a career, you would get a couple of hours under your belt to see what everything is about. It was just a little irritating to see people in IFS with no passion for flying all. All but one of the washouts was from ROTC in my particular class - sure it varies from class to class.

[Guest]

... however, it would just seem to make sense that if flying is what you wanted to do for a career, you would get a couple of hours under your belt to see what everything is about.

Please.

I have never understood the guys who think flying a Cessna at the podunk FBO is going to give someone SA on UPT or military flying and act like they want it more because they got a bunch of jerk off hours before they showed up.

GA flying is great. It just has nothing to do with success in the USAF or a person's passion.

T-38 dollar rides approaching fast.

They give more than one dollar ride now? Or are you going to give all your IPs a dollar the first time they get to fly with you?

[Dukeorions]

They give more than one dollar ride now? Or are you going to give all your IPs a dollar the first time they get to fly with you?

One for me and each of my classmates.

[CJ-6A]

Please.

I have never understood the guys who think flying a Cessna at the podunk FBO is going to give someone SA on UPT or military flying and act like they want it more because they got a bunch of jerk off hours before they showed up.

GA flying is great. It just has nothing to do with success in the USAF or a person's passion.

I hear what you're saying Rainman... it's just that if you can't make it through IFS, you can't go on to UPT. Just my opinion, but guys with prior time seemed to do better on average at IFS. A couple people failed out for not being able to land an airplane and would "need a couple more hours" for things to click (generally speaking, those people had no time). As far as the passion goes...perpetual airsickness, attitude, and not being able to land safely seemed to be big ticket items at IFS.

...just sayin' regardless of how prior time or "passion" for flying will help someone do in UPT, if you can't make it past IFS you don't really have a shot to prove it.

[Smokey]

Finished T6s number 1 in my class. Above average academics. Flight CC ranking of #3. T-38 dollar rides approaching fast.

Congrats!! Well done.

Now, one of the many comments I get from UPT students on base visits is how well they were prepared for the task at hand after having been through IFS. Do you agree?

Yes, much more complexity in aircraft, systems, academics, etc.....but they felt they understood how to adapt and learn in the UPT environment and without IFS felt it would have been an even a bigger bitch to tame. In my day, we showed up day one on the flight line feeling exactly how you did the day you hit the flight room at IFS.......imagine that.

Any comments on the attrition in your class during T-6 and the issues?

Thoughts?

Smokey

Edited July 19, 2012 by Smokey