Tim Tebow (NSFW)

[Danger41]

Here is a very interesting article on why people hate Tebow. Very interesting perspective how if he was a Muslim that he would be praised for being brave and all this other stuff but is instead vilified for his public religious displays.

https://msn.foxsports...hate-him-110211

Why the heck do we hate Tim Tebow?

What if Tim Tebow were a Muslim?

Imagine for a second, the Denver Broncos quarterback is a devout follower of Islam, sincere and principled in his beliefs and thus bowed toward Mecca to celebrate touchdowns. Now imagine if Detroit Lions playersStephen Tulloch and Tony Scheffler mockingly bowed toward Mecca, too, after tackling him for a loss or scoring a touchdown, just like what happened Sunday.

I know what would happen. All hell would break loose.

Stinging indictments issued by sports columnists. At least a few outraged religious leaders chiming in on his behalf. Depending on what else had happened that day, they might have a chance at becoming Keith Olbermann's Worst Person In The World.

And there would be apologies. Oh, Lord, would there be apologies — by players, by coaches, possibly by ownership with a tiny chance of a statement from NFL commish Roger Goodell.

You cannot mock Muslim faith, not in this country, not anywhere really.

It is primarily a respect issue, because religion is sacred and should be off limits. Yet when Tulloch and Scheffler dropped to a knee to mock how Tebow prays — an action known as “Tebowing” that has gone viral among the public, too — we yawned and told Christians to lighten up. We blamed Tebow for making a show of honoring God rather than himself in moments of joy. We excused them because Tulloch said he was mocking "Tebowing," not God.

Because ridiculing a man who chooses to honor God is so much better, right?

His religious fervor is an easy target for the vitriol spewed from those who dislike him, but the reasons are much deeper than that. From his advocacy of abstinence to his infamous “You will never see another team play this hard” speech at Florida, it is like he is too good to be true. He is too nice, and thereby we want him to trip up so we can feel better. We want him to be revealed as a hypocrite, and when that fails to happen, we settle for gleefully celebrating his failures on the football field. And why? Because he dares to say thanks?

I keep telling myself I am done with this Tebow debate only to be drawn offside, this time by a Lions player I had never heard of and a viral web meme that sprouted this week that had fans flooding an ESPN story’s comments section with viciously funny, yet downright mean and very sacrilegious quips of the “X > Tebow” formula.

What this whole repeating cycle of Tebow — rip his game, mock his faith, rise to his defense, repeat — has revealed about religious discourse in America is ugly. We have become so enamored of politically correct dogma that we protect every minority from even the slightest blush of insensitivity while letting the very institutions that the majority holds dear to be ridiculed. And this defense that Tebow invites such scrutiny with his willingness to publicly live as he privately believes calls into question what exactly it is we value.

One of the things Boomer Esiason got right earlier this week in his vicious, radio-show takedown on Tebow as a quarterback was how personal the criticism is. A good many NFL players and fans seem to be rooting for this guy to be a massive failure.

I could not figure out what was causing this onslaught of venom for a guy almost everybody claims to like, and I finally decided it is more about us. He makes us uncomfortable. He is a reminder that the blue-red, liberal-conservative fight over taking God out of everyday life is intellectually dishonest. He is too good.

Tebow is proof that God goes comfortably into whatever arena of your life you wish to take Him. I used to work with a great guy, Simon Gonzalez, a very devout Christian, and he prayed before every meal. Others would be killing free press meals and he would stop, bow his head and silently say thanks. He was not making a spectacle of his beliefs. He believed that God deserved thanks for what was before him, and not just when convenient for Simon. And people would squirm — not because what he was doing was wrong but because it was right. It is the same for Tebow.

There is no organized prayer led by Goodell before every game and no mandate for a post-touchdown prayer. Players such as Tebow — and he certainly is not alone in his belief and faith in the league — do so because consciences request it.

That others chose to mock — and Tulloch is in good company with many journalists I call friends and web posters with a wicked sense of humor — reminds me very much of the final line of The Paradoxical Commandments so often attributed to Mother Teresa. “You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; it was never between you and them anyway.”

And everybody is getting dropped in the grease on this one.

The defenses of Tebow, by Christians, are so ugly it defeats the point. This is where Christianity so often loses people, the ardent preaching of the gospel of “I'm Right, You're Wrong” and the demand for tolerance and the unwillingness to grant it. Because if Tebow were Muslim and did celebrate by bowing to Mecca, that would deserve respect too. Same for a Jewish player, yet why do I see that blowing up into an ugly mess as well? The level of discourse about religion in this country is frankly embarrassing, a bastard child of political discourse.

The only one who looks good in all this — maybe too good for some — is Tebow.

I find it especially telling that Tebow rarely lectures and does not fight back. He did not create Tebowing, nor is he responsible for it blowing up hipster style. It was kind of cool, I thought, after hearing a kid had said he was “Tebowing” while getting chemo.

Tebow is just a guy with the good sense to say thanks. Instead of taking his cue, we mock his faith.

And that says more about us, none of it good.

*EDIT for article quote add

Edited December 12, 2011 by Danger41

[Masshole]

I think he is a genuinely religious person and that's fine. More power to him. What I do not think I like is how he uses his influence among young people to push his religious beliefs. He and his mother were stupid to make that anti-abortion commercial. Your job is to play football, not peddle whatever personal opinions you have. There are many kids that idolize these guys who will get behind anything they say or do. I also feel this way about the guys that act like morons on the field. What was Suh thinking when he stomped on that guard's arm? What kind of message does James Harrison send when he makes a late hit on a quarterback, intending to knock the QB out of the game? You are teaching kids how to tackle charging with their helmet, not going around the waist like they should. They want to learn how to play like the professionals.

Anyways, back to the Tebow hatred- I do not personally hate him. I'm getting annoyed with ESPN slobbering all over his holy nuts though. He is not a good quarterback. In fact, his completion percentage is like counting down on New Year's Eve. Why do I hear more about Tebow than I do about Rodgers or Brees? Why does Tebow get more attention than Tom Brady? Do people think they are making a pact with their god by talking about Tebow's "ability" to make fourth quarter drives? He is no John Elway!!!!

Edited December 12, 2011 by Masshole

[Spoo]

Anyways, back to the Tebow hatred- I do not personally hate him. I'm getting annoyed with ESPN slobbering all over his holy nuts though. He is not a good quarterback. In fact, his completion percentage is like counting down on New Year's Eve. Why do I hear more about Tebow than I do about Rodgers or Brees? Why does Tebow get more attention than Tom Brady? Do people think they are making a pact with their god by talking about Tebow's "ability" to make fourth quarter drives? He is no John Elway!!!!

Thank you. I couldn't care less about Tim Tebow or his religion. It's just annoying that the guy is playing mediocre football against average to below average teams and the media has decided to turn him into some magical fourth-quarter-against-all-odds-play-maker. If anybody should get the credit it's the Doncos Defense.

BTW, Dilfer you're a horrible analyst, but you're a genius because you've parlayed your football career into an a job with ESPN where you just have to regurgitate what everybody else is saying and look smart....sorry, I digress.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Spoo

[Guest]

He and his mother were stupid to make that anti-abortion commercial. Your job is to play football, not peddle whatever personal opinions you have.

This is the most flagrant of personal opinions and a completely wrong answer. He is not economically restricted in any way. Nor should he be. That's like saying Jordan shouldn't have taken money from Nike because his job was to be a basketball player.

His job is whatever people pay him to do. If he is paid to sponsor something he personally agrees with there is absolutely no problem. there is also no problem if he volunteers to support a cause he believes in.

You don't get to decide those things for anyone other than yourself. Welcome to the USA.

[338skybolt]

You're ######ing right it does.

Calm down Reverend.

Good to see you don't have a double-standard in regards to touchdown and sack celebrations, and I sincerely mean it.

Not a reverend and plenty calm, thanks. I was merely asking for some qualifying info on similar situations. I personally don't care if Tebow prays on the field or not, is a Christian or not - just sick of the double-standard with people accepting "bad" behavior (or whatever you want to call it) and getting pissed or "rubbed the wrong way" when someone prays openly on a football field.

Agreed about Bud Grant - legendary.

[Masshole]

Thank you. I couldn't care less about Tim Tebow or his religion. It's just annoying that the guy is playing mediocre football against average to below average teams and the media has decided to turn him into some magical fourth-quarter-against-all-odds-play-maker. If anybody should get the credit it's the Doncos Defense.

BTW, Dilfer you're a horrible analyst, but you're a genius because you've parlayed your football career into an a job with ESPN where you just have to regurgitate what everybody else is saying and look smart....sorry, I digress.

And special teams yesterday. Thanks to Tebow, Prater only had to kick a 59-yard FG to tie the game and then a 51-yard FG to win it.

I love that Dilfer analyzes QB's and Matt Millen covers the NFL draft. They really knew what they were doing when they were active.

This is the most flagrant of personal opinions and a completely wrong answer. He is not economically restricted in any way. Nor should he be. That's like saying Jordan shouldn't have taken money from Nike because his job was to be a basketball player.

His job is whatever people pay him to do. If he is paid to sponsor something he personally agrees with there is absolutely no problem. there is also no problem if he volunteers to support a cause he believes in.

You don't get to decide those things for anyone other than yourself. Welcome to the USA.

Fair enough, but I do not think anyone- on either side of the issue- should be pushing their views onto millions of people that want to watch the Super Bowl.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Masshole

[MKopack]

...What I do not think I like is how he uses his influence among young people to push his religious beliefs....

Not really religious myself, but I'd rather see what Tebow is doing than to see so many other players who seem to worship - and want nothing more than to convert others to - the "First International Church of Themselves".

[Masshole]

Not really religious myself, but I'd rather see what Tebow is doing than to see so many other players who seem to worship - and want nothing more than to convert others to - the "First International Church of Themselves".

I agree. There is no such thing as quiet professionalism in football or basketball. Tebow is just rubbing people the wrong way (so to speak), but what he is doing is not necessarily harmful. People like Plaxico Burress and Marvin Harrison are problems in that they forget where they come from (or they remember it too much). They act like thugs and think they are above the law. Players like them forget younger people from their neighborhoods follow what they do very closely. You are just perpetuating the stigma and not doing anything to appear as a positive role model. You are just sending the message that if you have a millions of dollars, the world is yours.

[Guest]

There is no such thing as quiet professionalism in football...

Be quiet. You know nothing about professional football.

Here's an example that disproves your statement. There are hundreds of others.

I do not think anyone- on either side of the issue- should be pushing their views onto millions of people that want to watch the Super Bowl.

Be quiet. With this statement you clearly know nothing about how a free market or a free speech society works.

Good to see you don't have a double-standard in regards to touchdown and sack celebrations, and I sincerely mean it.

Agreed about Bud Grant - legendary.

[Masshole]

Be quiet. You know nothing about professional football.

Here's an example that disproves your statement. There are hundreds of others.

I will see your Steve Hutchinson and raise you a Desean Jackson:

And I am pretty sure if I search through Vikings and Seahawks plays, I can find Steve Hutchinson acting like a douche.

Be quiet. With this statement you clearly know nothing about how a free market or a free speech society works.

Ha. Really?

Edited December 12, 2011 by Masshole

[Danger41]

I love that Dilfer analyzes QB's and Matt Millen covers the NFL draft.

For all the shit I've seen you write about unified field theory or whatever other crazy, Stephen Hawkingesque stuff you pontificate upon, this is the smartest/funniest thing I've ever seen you write.

And a Steve Hutchinson reference Rainman? Respect.

[Gravedigger]

Some of the best sports advice I ever got from my dad was "act like you've been there before." Celebrating your own accomplishments is counter to the idea of team sports.

I think Tony Gonzales exemplifies the "act like you've been there before" concept. When he makes a big catch, he gets up and hands the ball to the ref, and goes to the huddle. No self-promoting, no dances, he just does his job and moves forward. That is professionalism.

If you are good enough at what you do, you don't need to promote yourself.

As for Tim Tebow, I really don't give a shit if he prays or talks about Jesus. He is winning (for now) and wants the best for his team, and not himself, I can respect that. When he starts losing, he will still pray and talk about Jesus, he'll just get less coverage.

[Red Fox]

In the South, Christianity follows a close 2nd to football as the most popular/followed religion. From my many years of living in the SE, I've observed the two do operate closely through organizations like Athletes in Action, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, etc. I've seen several professional football players give their personal testimony about their faith. Watch the field after an NFL game and you will see a large group of players from both teams kneeling in prayer. The late/great Reggie White was an ordained minister. Emmit Smith and Barry Sanders were very devout. Sanders raised eyebrows after giving 10% of his bonus check to his church. I prefer Sanders method after scoring a TD - pitch the ball to the Ref. A true test of a Christian is how they behave during adversity - not when things are going well. What does Tebow do when he throws an interception. Does he thank God for having that opportunity? Haven't seen it yet (doesn't mean it doesn't happen). A few athletes who I respect and who were open about their faith was the Scottish sprinter and gold medal winner Eric Liddell (died as a missionary in Japanese occupied China near the end of WWII and truly lived his faith), the Olympic runner Jim Ryun who had bad fortune during the Olympics but still gave thanks, and this Olympian and F-105 pilot, Clifton Cushman "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Cushman" (KIA in 1966).

Change of subject: Rainman, I'm guessing you preferred Joe Kapp over Fran Tarkington. I was a Browns fan and still remember Kapp, while running the ball, putting "the hurt" on one of the Browns linebackers (I think during the NFL championship) that put the linebacker out of the game. He was a tough hombre. Regards, RF.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Football is a game played over 4 quarters, not one, and that's something Timmeh hasn't done yet - play at a good performance level over the entire course of a game. Yes he's been amazing under pressure, but he's the one putting himself there - it's not like he's a Closer going in to finish the game after the starter gets injured. The deficits he's having to overcome are solely from his inability to play at a high level at other points throughout the game.

That said, he's throwing decent very frequently now instead of ugly wobbly hucks when he DID throw; and he's using the rest of his team (his fucking receivers!) instead of only relying on the Option play. And the team appears to be rallying around him, they're all playing well and are actively being used efficiently (instead of receivers only acting as decoys for coverage).

Denver's kicker was a stud yesterday...that 59-yarder to put it into OT was RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE and had at least another ten yards in it. It's not like it just barely cleared the bottom bar, it sailed right through the uprights.

[Guest]

I will see your Steve Hutchinson and raise you a Desean Jackson

WTF is wrong with you?

You denied the presence of quiet professionalism and I offered evidience of the contrary with an affirmative statement that there are HUNDREDS more like him in the NFL.

I did not say there were no douchebags. Nor did I say there are more quiet professionals than there are douchebags.

I just said you were clueless because your statement was incorrect and showed a total lack of SA, which you continue to show by missing the point in your response.

And I am pretty sure if I search through Vikings and Seahawks plays, I can find Steve Hutchinson acting like a douche.

Then do it or STFU because "I am pretty sure" is nothing but bullshit.

I have no idea what you consider douchemanlike conduct on the football field based on your comprensive experience and relationships with professional players and first hand experience playing the game but I would welcome such a challenge to my point.

Ha. Really?

Yes, really. When someone lets you know you've lost SA your next best move is to cease buzzer, roll wings level, check your block and gangload if required.

And a Steve Hutchinson reference Rainman? Respect.

[Masshole]

WTF is wrong with you?

You are under the impression that I am just a petulant young teenager, so I am not letting you forget that.

I just said you were clueless because your statement was incorrect and showed a total lack of SA, which you continue to show by missing the point in your response.

Clueless? I know a great deal about the sport. Thank you very much.

Then do it or STFU because "I am pretty sure" is nothing but bullshit.

Kind of like making up an arbitrary figure like HUNDREDS.

I have no idea what you consider douchemanlike conduct on the football field based on your comprensive experience and relationships with professional players and first hand experience playing the game but I would welcome such a challenge to my point.

People that celebrate after they do something their job requires them to do is being a douche. Fist-pumping and dancing because you blocked someone from sacking the QB is retarded if you are on the offensive line. How do you know I do not have "relationships" with professional players? And what experience do you have playing professional football? Puh-lease.

Yes, really. When someone lets you know you've lost SA your next best move is to cease buzzer, roll wings level, check your block and gangload if required.

Fair enough and I will concede that point. But in no way, shape, or form are you an authority on the NFL. Why do you think you are? Because you have suffered through more Vikings seasons than I have been alive? I think I would rather listen to Skip Bayless.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Masshole

[BlackKnight]

You are under the impression that I am just a petulant young teenager, so I am not letting you forget that.

We all remember. Thanks.

Clueless? I know a great deal about the sport. Thank you very much.

Except what it's like to ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME. Ugh...

Fair enough and I will concede that point. But in no way, shape, or form are you an authority on the NFL. Why do you think you are? Because you have suffered through more Vikings seasons than I have been alive? I think I would rather listen to Skip Bayless.

You know, technique only, but it's a good idea to ASK someone, seriously and respectfully, a question like this before you just go discounting them.

You know who's exhibiting douche(wo)manlike conduct in the last few post? You.

As for Tebow, I like the guy- his competitiveness, toughness, leadership, unselfishness, focus on the team, community service, modest and decency. And I am in no way religious. The 2 seconds he takes a knee, thanks God, or points up don't bother me a bit. All the jackasses doing dances and/or mocking such brilliant, good people as those who shot themselves, do.

I wish him luck.

Barney

Edited December 13, 2011 by Barney A-10

[Masshole]

Except what it's like to ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME. Ugh...

Playing the game does not mean you are an expert on professionalism in the NFL.

You know, technique only, but it's a good idea to ASK someone, seriously and respectfully, a question like this before you just go discounting them.

You know who's exhibiting douche(wo)manlike conduct in the last few posts? You.

I do not respect people who do not respect me. And I have asked Rainman a question seriously and respectfully and only got a douche-like answer. Technique only, eh?

[rico]

"What kind of message does James Harrison send when he makes a late hit on a quarterback, intending to knock the QB out of the game? You are teaching kids how to tackle charging with their helmet, not going around the waist like they should. They want to learn how to play like the professionals"

Seriously? You've obviously never played football. There is nothing wrong with playing with intensity and saying to yourself "Ya I am going to ###### this guy up if his QB hangs him out to dry across the middle." And who doesn't want a big hit? Once again you obviously never been on the field and had the opportunity to lay a dude out. No one intentionally "charges" with their helmet because YOU'LL end up in the hospital. It just happens; some guys are more prone to it than others.

"People like Plaxico Burress and Marvin Harrison are problems in that they forget where they come from (or they remember it too much). They act like thugs and think they are above the law. Players like them forget younger people from their neighborhoods follow what they do very closely. You are just perpetuating the stigma and not doing anything to appear as a positive role model. You are just sending the message that if you have a millions of dollars, the world is yours."

You know this how?

Maybe they don't want to be a role model... who gives a ######

Edited December 13, 2011 by rico

[Masshole]

"What kind of message does James Harrison send when he makes a late hit on a quarterback, intending to knock the QB out of the game? You are teaching kids how to tackle charging with their helmet, not going around the waist like they should. They want to learn how to play like the professionals"

Seriously? You've obviously never played football. There is nothing wrong with playing with intensity and saying to yourself "Ya I am going to ###### this guy up if his QB hangs him out to dry across the middle." And who doesn't want a big hit? Once again you obviously never been on the field and had the opportunity to lay a dude out. No one intentionally "charges" with their helmet because YOU'LL end up in the hospital. It just happens; some guys are more prone to it than others.

I know this because I have talked to someone that works very closely with the NFL. They have been taking more cheap shots as an attempt to get on the highlight reel. I play sports and I am an aggressive and competitive person on the field. I would love to lay some people out, but that is not acceptable and it is not even tolerable. Go ahead and justify James Harrison's style of play. Please tell me how that is playing football like a professional.

[General Condition]

George Carlin summed this up years ago:

[Masshole]

Let me ask a serious question then. When some of you played football, how did they teach you to tackle? Saying someone cannot comment on the unprofessionalism in the NFL in regards to tackling because they have never played football is a nonsensical argument. Players have gotten to be thugs like the NBA. Also, football is a team sport. Going for the "big hit" does not necessarily mean you will get the guy down and you can almost bet on a penalty. Look at the number of broken tackles in the NFL and NCAA football for that.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Masshole

[M2]

As for Tebow, I like the guy- his competitiveness, toughness, leadership, unselfishness, focus on the team, community service, modest and decency. And I am in no way religious. The 2 seconds he takes a knee, thanks God, or points up don't bother me a bit. All the jackasses doing dances and/or mocking such brilliant, good people as those who shot themselves, do.

I wish him luck.

Barney

This.

[Danger41]

Using Steve Hutchinson as an example of "douche" like play, you could make a case. On similar grounds, any good offensive lineman can be clarified as a douche if they play with his level of intensity and violence between the whistles. He is one of the best (if not the best) run blocking guards in the league and finishes each of his blocks with some nastiness (so to speak). That's what makes him great. The difference between him and a guy like James Harrison is that Hutchinson does his job within the bounds of the rules. Harrison knows what the rules are, knows that people are looking for him to break them, and breaks them anyway. Then calling the commissioner a "faggot" in an interview is a bad technique. Not as bad of a technique as repeatedly calling out Rainman while being a teenage girl commenting on the NFL, but close.

I don't think that anyone should comment on how to play a game if they have never played it before. Commenting on professionalism is one thing, but talking about how to play the game is asinine. This is why I think that the drive to get more women into a football broadcasting booth is stupid as hell. There is SO MUCH more to football than most fans know, and learning that is done by spending hours and hours on a practice field and in meeting rooms and in film study. Not watching a football game or two a week. In college, I spent almost 40 hours a week just on football stuff. That is why former players make the best broadcasters and can give actual good insight to the game instead of "nice run!"

Let me ask a serious question then. When some of you played football, how did they teach you to tackle? Saying someone cannot comment on the unprofessionalism in the NFL in regards to tackling because they have never played football is a nonsensical argument. Players have gotten to be thugs like the NBA. Also, football is a team sport. Going for the "big hit" does not necessarily mean you will get the guy down and you can almost bet on a penalty. Look at the number of broken tackles in the NFL and NCAA football for that.

I played Division 1 football, and they teach you to tackle the exact same way the teach you to tackle when you're 6 years old. Good base, eyes on his belt buckle, drive THROUGH the ball carrier (most often screwed up), fire your hands up and THROUGH the guy, and grab onto anything you can get a hold of (including stupid ######ing dreadlocks), and swarm to the ball carrier so that 10 other teammates drive him into the ground. Here's a perfect example of a big hit coupled with good form tackling by the best (IMHO) Middle Linebacker in the league, Patrick Willis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VHCdAGccOg

[Techsan]

Maybe its just the Raider fan in me, but I can't stand the guy. He's finding a way to win for now, but I don't see him having long term success. I think Daniel Tosh sums Tebow up best...