Electronic flight bags could boost operational safety, effectiveness

[Homestar]

While I am not a fan of FLIP on an iPad and would prefer old-school paper FLIP, I would support going to electronic FLIP, etc to keep more of our jets in the air and more of our bros in Big Blue.

I agree, and personally think I'd print off a hard-copy local flimsy for round-the-flagpole flying with electronic FLIP for multi-leg and overseas TDYs. I am a fan of electronic T.O.s though.

[Champ Kind]

I agree, and personally think I'd print off a hard-copy local flimsy for round-the-flagpole flying with electronic FLIP for multi-leg and overseas TDYs. I am a fan of electronic T.O.s though.

What do you mean by a "hard-copy local flimsy"? You mean your Wing/Group local flying procedures aircrew flimsy?

[Homestar]

Something like that. Our OGV puts together a FLIP booklet with all local IFR approaches printed from NGA in one file. Keeps the FLIP volume for the home station in usable condition longer and gives you something less cumbersome to throw on the kneeboard.

[Champ Kind]

Interesting.

Although, being a Herk guy and having been to some pretty random places, if I had to choose, I'd rather have hard copies of the FLIP for unfamiliar fields.

I'm pretty sure I could safely get myself to the FAF and subsequently brick one in the local area if my iPad shit the bed.

[jazzdude]

Hopefully the NGA app comes to Android. But for now the downloading all the mission reference stuff as pdfs (especially the NGA aerospatial airfield directory and the Jepp routepacks and SDPs) onto my tablet works fine and definitely declutters the cockpit.

All that being said, I do like having a paper backup for planned stops, just in case....

[Apollo]

How many crews print off their own approach plates as it is in addition to the hard copy flip? Digital flip doesn't prevent what you personally feel secure with, but instead it trims the fat.

[jazzdude]

I usually print up an airfield diagram so I can mark it up with WBCs, although I've recently started to use the Jepp diagrams instead.

I will say that sometimes at the end of a FLIP cycle the commonly used plates are beat up and missing pages.

Just to clarify my earlier comment: outside of the airfield diagram and maybe some select pages out of the AP, I normally don't duplicate paper FLIP. Should have clarified my paper backups were mainly Jepps and giant reports

[Lawman]

How many crews print off their own approach plates as it is in addition to the hard copy flip? Digital flip doesn't prevent what you personally feel secure with, but instead it trims the fat.

See thats a problem we experience too. Any time a mission comes up we find ourselves adding 3-4 approach plates to the kneeboard packet because somehow people feel they need to be there. Even though you have your volume 3 with the same plates on it in your pubs bag, or at least your supposed too.

I think thats more a cultural problem in the powerpoint military of if something isnt X number of pages it must not be complete. Quantity over content.

[Butters]

I have always like the idea of the EFB, much easier to carry than the standard C-17 world-wide pubs. I addition to being lighter, you also do not typically find missing pages when your pubs are in electronic format. I can't count the number of times I have stepped to a jet to find several pages missing in the vol 3. Then you go back into baseops to get some new ones only to find that is not their job and you are SOL. Honestly, there is no need for a paper back-up. In the C-17, I now of one case where the paper FLIP caught fire (Altus C-17, left the T-Storm lights on and pushed the approach plate holders down making contact with the light and BOOM). I have never seen all the iPads on a C-17 shit the bed (there are always at least 3 on any C-17 in the world).

[farva]

I can guarantee the AF will royally ###### this up...like pay triple.

Edited January 1, 2012 by farva

[Champ Kind]

I can guarantee the AF will royally fuck this up...like pay triple what it would have cost for the best hardware/software.... FOR AN INFERIOR PRODUCT.

FIFY.

[BigFreddie]

Hopefully the NGA app comes to Android. But for now the downloading all the mission reference stuff as pdfs (especially the NGA aerospatial airfield directory and the Jepp routepacks and SDPs) onto my tablet works fine and definitely declutters the cockpit.

All that being said, I do like having a paper backup for planned stops, just in case....

From the EFB conference in early October the NGA guys (and there are only 2 working this project from what I understood) are completely focused on the iOS app now. If the AF decides not to go with the iPad then they will quickly try to shift to whatever OS the chosen platform uses.

There were some other companies with really great apps already developed. Some were fairly cheap while others were very expensive per user. I like the ARINC setup because they would bring small servers wherever the AF wanted and completely circumvent the comm folks from being involved. Their app was very user friendly as well. Jepp had a great product as well and the best solution would be to have the NGA app and a Jepp app to have complete access to all the pubs and other required items. Now if you could get a GDSSII interface for all the documents that seem to be hidden behind that barrier...

[Guest]

What do you do with an electronic device like this if you have an emergency at night (wearing goggles)? Are they looking at some sort of Glendale Green cover for the thing? If so, how do you manage a color display with a colored overlay?

[HU&W]

Any type of night flying with the iPad sucks due to limited brightness control. You just can't turn it down enough. Here's an article that addresses the issue, but wouldn't help much with NVG's. https://aviationmentor.blogspot.com/2010/10/night-vision-and-ipad.html

[Chapter29]

Since we're throwing out questions... can you finger scroll with your glove on? Im assuming not. Please tell me someone is already working on the one-finger-naked-flying-glove patend. Also, will you have the same challenge with a glendale coating on the face of the iPad?

[HU&W]

Since we're throwing out questions... can you finger scroll with your glove on? Im assuming not. Please tell me someone is already working on the one-finger-naked-flying-glove patend. Also, will you have the same challenge with a glendale coating on the face of the iPad?

Doesn't work through the leather tip of the finger on the glove. It does, however scroll/select using the knuckle or the back of the finger through the cloth part of the glove.

[LockheedFix]

Does anybody in AMC besides legacy Herk guys actually fly with gloves on these days?

[guineapigfury]

Please tell me someone is already working on the one-finger-naked-flying-glove patend.

In my last 2 aircraft, I found I needed one gloved hand for the yoke, and one "naked" hand for all the buttons, switches and such. It works, but you'll have to endure the Michael Jackson jokes. Option 2 is to apply some scissors to your flight gloves and make the "one-finger-naked-flying-glove" yourself.

[Right Seat Driver]

Does anybody in AMC besides legacy Herk guys actually fly with gloves on these days?

Yes, a number of -135 guys do, but that number is decreasing. The only exception is the sandbox where gloves are necessary.

[LockheedFix]

Yes, a number of -135 guys do, but that number is decreasing. The only exception is the sandbox where gloves are necessary.

Necessary because of sweat or required by some local reg? Just curious.

How does the roll out of a program like this affect guys flying AMC aircraft in an FTU? Will I have to wait until I get back to AMC to get issued whatever product wins the bid?

[Guest]

No one needs gloves in the airplane. They're stupid and serve absolutely no purpose. There is no way anyone can convince me otherwise.

What about the goggles, WTF do you do if you need some kind of EP information at night?

[Right Seat Driver]

Necessary because of sweat or required by some local reg? Just curious.

Necessary because of sweat and because the jet is so fvcking hot inside. They are now using thermal curtains to keep the cockpit cool, but that only helps until engine start.

[JeepGuyC17]

No one needs gloves in the airplane. They're stupid and serve absolutely no purpose. There is no way anyone can convince me otherwise.

What about the goggles, WTF do you do if you need some kind of EP information at night?

Take the goggles off? I would imagine you would still need to carry a paper copy of the Dash 1 just in case, but most C-17 crews already use an LCD-screened Toughbook as the primary in-cockpit reference for the Dash 1 and AFIs with little difficulty, NVGs or not. Since tablets use the same type of LCD screen as the laptop and many cockpit instruments rather than an incandescent bulb, they should be NVG compatible if the screen can be made dim enough.

[Guest]

Take the goggles off?

Seriously? In combat?

I'm wondering what someone would do to reference tech data or checklists when they don't have a 15k x 150' wide fully lit ILS equipped divert runway and have to land somewhere with no lights or they can't climb above the MSA or any number of tactical reasons to keep the goggles on. The list of reasons to leave the goggles on is quite long.

Seems like something pretty important, to me at least.

[Homestar]

Yes, a number of -135 guys do, but that number is decreasing. The only exception is the sandbox where gloves are necessary.

Yeah, it helps keep the 50 year old yoke funk to a minimum.

Seriously? In combat?

I'm wondering what someone would do to reference tech data or checklists when they don't have a 15k x 150' wide fully lit ILS equipped divert runway and have to land somewhere with no lights or they can't climb above the MSA or any number of tactical reasons to keep the goggles on. The list of reasons to leave the goggles on is quite long.

Seems like something pretty important, to me at least.

An EFB probably isn't a great solution in fighter and tactical environments and my guess is that most in those communities would rather stick to paper pubs for the reasons you list. I see the EFB as more of an AMC solution.