Electronic flight bags could boost operational safety, effectiveness

[jazzdude]

NGA Aero App is good, plus it gives me access to giant reports now that my G2 account was closed, and its nice to know that I have access to whatever flip I need if it I forget/drop something. I use Naviator (android) for moving map vfr sectionals to (hypothetically...) back myself up on off station vfr legs. $5/month for charts, but as a single captain I've got money to burn.

If you're an AOPA member, their FlyQ app is decent-easy to plan/file DUATS using the app.

Most FBOs seem to have an okay crew planning area, but occasionally you find one that doesn't.

[17D_guy]

Dudes,

Attempting to help out the OG here and stop dudes having to step with the 68 lbs bag.

Someone in Ops bought 16 Surface Tablets to use as EFB's. They didn't tell us they were doing this. Of course, they're wanted spun up and installed yesterday, but that ain't going to happen. We'll get it done, just going to take awhile and we're attempting to figure out how to get these things on the network for updates when not in use. As it is the tablet's not cleared for the aircraft.

I can go into technical details, but.. why.

If you're using them or know someone who's using them, legally preferred, please drop me a PM w/ POC. If you have MAJCOM guidance please send along, I can provide my .mil via PM.

I'm also going to get with "the customer" and have them walk me through how they would use them so we can ID process problems. If you can share you pro/cons, worked/didn't work stories I'd also appreciate it.

Any info I get so that I might be able to alleviate issues without me having to talk to the good-idea fairy motherfucker.

Something, something.. cyber operations.

17D

[nunya]

I can't give you much help, but I can tell you our EFBs are in a stand-alone network. They're not part of the base or .mil network at all. We have a short range wireless router in the flight planning room that we use to sync our docs via Goodreader. Works good lasts long time. Trying to get them onto the CAC-controlled network sounds like an enormous pain.

[stract]

I know the Hueys in AFGSC have been using iPads for a while now, maybe Breckey can chime in.

[SurelySerious]

Dudes,

Attempting to help out the OG here and stop dudes having to step with the 68 lbs bag.

Someone in Ops bought 16 Surface Tablets to use as EFB's. They didn't tell us they were doing this. Of course, they're wanted spun up and installed yesterday, but that ain't going to happen. We'll get it done, just going to take awhile and we're attempting to figure out how to get these things on the network for updates when not in use. As it is the tablet's not cleared for the aircraft.

I can go into technical details, but.. why.

If you're using them or know someone who's using them, legally preferred, please drop me a PM w/ POC. If you have MAJCOM guidance please send along, I can provide my .mil via PM.

I'm also going to get with "the customer" and have them walk me through how they would use them so we can ID process problems. If you can share you pro/cons, worked/didn't work stories I'd also appreciate it.

Any info I get so that I might be able to alleviate issues without me having to talk to the good-idea fairy motherfucker.

Something, something.. cyber operations.

17D

All of AFGSC is using EFBs, and there's a ton of majcom level testing/certifying that went on over about 2 years. It developed from a conemp to a full up AFGSCI. They're finally at the "use them for TOs, FLIP, and moving map/live Wx" stage. PM me your .mil and I can send you some details that hopefully get you talking to the right people.

[17D_guy]

I can't give you much help, but I can tell you our EFBs are in a stand-alone network. They're not part of the base or .mil network at all. We have a short range wireless router in the flight planning room that we use to sync our docs via Goodreader. Works good lasts long time. Trying to get them onto the CAC-controlled network sounds like an enormous pain.

Here's the details -

We have a couple in the CFP for testing only. There's still issues with the OS load, however:

they run a lighter version of AF-Windows

have smart-card readers

run real outlook

can run Formflow (or whatever it's actually called) for OPR/EPR's/Forms

can VPN

I've used one for a day as a desktop replacement. It was not too shabby, still some quirks as I said.

Love my macBook, but iPad/iPhones suck for AF-anything.

Warning, rant incoming -

I've got 24 CST's authorized per the manpower doc, AF fills us w/ 16 Amn, and just deployed 8. So, I've got 8 Amn.. for about 8K users. Printers don't work, email not working, won't power on.. all that. I don't have people for testing in a manner I'd feel comfortable handing to one of you all and ensuring it works.

Now, I've got to develop a process for all these and maintain them on top of the workstations. For example, I don't know if my Ops bros fly w/ CAC depending on whatever tropical local they visit. I'm pretty sure they do, but what if they don't for SERE reasons. Can't password enable these.

And of course one O6 has it.. so they all want it.

- end rant.

Thanks for the feedback/PM's, looking forward to getting this done and saving some spines.

[Breckey]

Global Strikes EFBs are maintained by the squadrons. The comm squadron doesn't do anything other than have then on the ADPE letter. It's similar to the PFPS network. If they're like every other EFB I've heard if then they are not to be connected to AFNET which should save you a bunch of time and energy because they shouldn't be your problem.

[Majestik Møøse]

Has anybody in ACC successfully bought iPads as pubs readers? They're the last of the cavemen and seem to think that every "OS" has to be AFNET enabled using GFE. And this is coming from A6.

[SocialD]

Edit...I would be very interested in the answer to the question above.

Dudes,

Attempting to help out the OG here and stop dudes having to step with the 68 lbs bag.

Someone in Ops bought 16 Surface Tablets to use as EFB's.

Tell them to dump the Surface and pick up iPads. As someone who has used both as an EFB, the iPad is far superior...unless you like dealing with a slow OS, blue screen of death, system lock up, etc...

Edited February 5, 2015 by SocialD

[Majestik Møøse]

They got Surfaces because they asked the CS. The CS assumes by default that you want access to Sharepoint and Outlook and the Surface works like a laptop without a keyboard. Of course, nobody actually wants the Surface because they're shit.

[17D_guy]

Has anybody in ACC successfully bought iPads as pubs readers?

Currently talking with the OG about how we're going to install their iPads that were bought to replace the toughbooks for the MX dudes. So.. yes.

Tell them to dump the Surface and pick up iPads. As someone who has used both as an EFB, the iPad is far superior...unless you like dealing with a slow OS, blue screen of death, system lock up, etc...

Having used both (admittedly not as a EFB), I disagree. Win7 and up is very solid, and I say this as a guy who loaded Linux for years and bought a MacBook Pro.

They got Surfaces because they asked the CS. The CS assumes by default that you want access to Sharepoint and Outlook and the Surface works like a laptop without a keyboard. Of course, nobody actually wants the Surface because they're shit.

By all means continue to talk out your ass, assume the worst, and continue to be wrong. We were not involved but to be sent an email asking how long it would take to get them from the OG front office and online.

You know who does want access to all those things.. the OG/CC and his front office. They're getting 4 tablets. So we're setting those up. You know who doens't.. the EFB dudes. We might be able to lock it down by script.. but why? If you can fly a frigging jet, I think we can trust you not to look up porn Trivia Crack on the gov't tablet.

I get it.. you don't like the Surface. I'll write that down somewhere important. You know who doesn't like the iPad at my base? Everyone who's attempted to use it for work. All CC's hate it. Period.

Can't even read encrypted emails on it anymore.

On another note - we aren't your enemy. Sure, there's still some "default-no" Comm guys. But the guys like me are growing. Many of us get "Ops" both cyber and flying. Let us help you, and we might save you money and do it better than your additional duty Project Manager/SNACKO Lt might.

[raimius]

A stand-alone non-mil network for pubs, T.O.s, etc. works pretty well. We also wound up having to use some commercial internet for things like iOS and Foreflight updates. We wound up with 3 different non-mil networks at one point. So, you might want to be careful, as problems increase as the complexity does.

[BFM this]

We might be able to lock it down by script.. but why? If you can fly a frigging jet, I think we can trust you not to look up porn Trivia Crack on the gov't tablet.

Manchester...

But hey, keep up the good fight!

[17D_guy]

A stand-alone non-mil network for pubs, T.O.s, etc. works pretty well. We also wound up having to use some commercial internet for things like iOS and Foreflight updates. We wound up with 3 different non-mil networks at one point. So, you might want to be careful, as problems increase as the complexity does.

Will do. Can we get all the EFB pubs, T.O.s, etc. stuff on .mil? They are authorized network devices, no IA-waivers required.

[Breckey]

Everything should be available though epubs, the JTS site, and ETIMS. FLIP can be had through the NGA website but ForeFlight is much more user friendly (and only available through the Apple Store).

[Majestik Møøse]

Sure, there's still some "default-no" Comm guys. But the guys like me are growing. Many of us get "Ops" both cyber and flying. Let us help you, and we might save you money and do it better than your additional duty Project Manager/SNACKO Lt might.

Well, super helpful comm guys like you are still the minority. The ones I'm working with are "default-no". To the point where I was told to call A6 and report back.

And the Surface is still a POS.

Bottom line: What my Sq is looking for from Comm is the approval to use iPads as e-readers. AFNET access is not required, and actually it would be preferred to not have it. We'd rather plug into a stand alone or use wifi to sync pubs. Nobody wants to pay for and update Good For Enterprise, either.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Majestik Møøse

[17D_guy]

Everything should be available though epubs, the JTS site, and ETIMS. FLIP can be had through the NGA website but ForeFlight is much more user friendly (and only available through the Apple Store).

Thanks. I'll engage w/ the aircrew that bought them and see if we can find some compatible apps.

Copy, super helpful comm guys like you are still the minority. The ones I'm working with are "default-no". To the point where I was told to call A6 and report back.

And the Surface is still a POS. BSOD and lockups right out of the box vs iPads that just work.

I try and train my Lt's the same. Only time we pull back is when people assume we're just going to lie down and do whatever they want. Still got a network to protect and bosses overlords.

[afthunderchief16]

Thanks. I'll engage w/ the aircrew that bought them and see if we can find some compatible apps.

Have you tried calling over to OGV yet to get the POC down at Greenville (L3 or blue suitors)?

I know that the whole EFB thing has been in the works for quite some time down there and they have been mulling over all of the options to try and satisfy the security requirements of the jet and attempting to still provide a somewhat adequate tablet so I don't think that some dude just went out and spent $15k + on a shitty product without doing some due dilligence.

Either way, start with OGV to make sure you aren't duplicating efforts to get them set up.

PM me if you need contact info, etc.

[busdriver]

Has anybody in ACC successfully bought iPads as pubs readers? They're the last of the cavemen and seem to think that every "OS" has to be AFNET enabled using GFE. And this is coming from A6.

ACC/A3TV is the point of contact for the EFB process, I'm not sure where it sits right now but last I heard they were fighting with some SPO about qualification to be in the cockpit despite being EMI good to go.

[17D_guy]

Thanks all. OGV is our POC for local, but I'm trying to close the paper work loop before hand slapping starts. Got a lot of good POCs and info to churn through. I'll let you all know how it goes.

[Breckey]

ACC/A3TV is the point of contact for the EFB process, I'm not sure where it sits right now but last I heard they were fighting with some SPO about qualification to be in the cockpit despite being EMI good to go.

The H-1s have gotten approval from the SPO for iPad minis. Works a lot better in the small cockpits that don't have a lot of legroom at full control deflection. Hopefully they can piggyback on the previous efforts.

[SocialD]

Having used both (admittedly not as a EFB), I disagree. Win7 and up is very solid, and I say this as a guy who loaded Linux for years and bought a MacBook Pro.

I have been a Linux/Mac guy for years but I'm ok with different technology. The surface, so far is a huge let down. I've had it lock up multiple times, just trying to put in my password! A hard reset is the only way to unfuck it. That's ok until I'm descending into the terminal environment and need the plates. Used an iPad for years and never had a problem. This is just one in a long list of problems.

If it's being used for flight it sucks. If not, I see you're point about encrypted emails, etc...

ACC/A3TV is the point of contact for the EFB process, I'm not sure where it sits right now but last I heard they were fighting with some SPO about qualification to be in the cockpit despite being EMI good to go.

Sounds about right for a govt program. Progress being held up by one person. Edited February 6, 2015 by SocialD

[Majestik Møøse]

Thanks all. OGV is our POC for local, but I'm trying to close the paper work loop before hand slapping starts. Got a lot of good POCs and info to churn through. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Kick ass dude. I take it all back!

[17D_guy]

So,

Called around to OGV to see what they've done with the A3 or 6. Nothing - that's fine. The AO for this tells me it's not for EFB's but to get the crews used to using tablets for mission planning and that sort of thing.

Ok.. strange. Apparently L3 won't "authorize" iPads for EFB's in our airframes and is in the process of building their own software for the Surfaces/Slates/whatever using Windows.

Thanks all for your help. Learned a lot about this whole thing, hopefully well get something for the bros besides the 68.9 lb bags soon.

[TSSRShot]

Not true. Another three letter person said no to EFBs in our airplane. Not L-3. Also, It's not an EMI issue, its an EMSEC issue.

L-3 taking the bull by the horns is also a move into integrating mission planning and realtime performance computational software into one integrated product. The PTB not jumping onto a COTS solution is just because we have greater insight as a platform to not duplicate efforts when patience will serve better. I don't need a $500 PDF reader (the FLIP book works just fine for now), but we are going to need a way of better interfacing with Integrated DAPA. (Ask one of the front-end fliers) Sadly, ecosystem-wise, Windows will get it done on budget and across three different SPOs. I'm an Apple guy at home, but even I understand that.

Edited February 9, 2015 by TSSRShot