I think they TOTALLY get it (Suicides)

[BQZip01]

Had the Group Psychiatrist give us a briefing on resiliency training. Same BS as everybody else has gotten. He went on to explain that complaining about our situation (RPA's @ Glorious AFSOC West Coast base and going on 3 1/2 yrs) does not help the situation. I explained to him that it helps to sometimes have B!@#$ sessions, we can typically get some good laughs out of it. He then went on to explain that it statistically does not help individuals. He even went on further to explain a comparison of a WWII US POW in a GE prison camp preparing his mind for the ordeal and going on each day with a positive attitude. I'm not really sure if everybody else caught it, but I sat back in amazement that this guy just compared our situation to a WWII POW situation. I literally just started laughing. The second thing I took out of it is that he is saying I have to brainwash myself that everything is all good here in Blovistan sitting in a box.

To be fair, I think he's just trying to show that even under worse stressful conditions, maintaining a positive attitude is important.

When I think of good things my commanders have done, I have to say that one of the best things any of them did was to sit us down as a squadron and lock the doors. He then asked us, what problems we were having. He had the exec write down everything on a white board. What he expected to be a 1 hr session went to nearly 3 hrs. We got a LOT off of our collective chests. At the end, he wrote down everything, told us that if anyone had any further things they didn't want to bring up in the group, he'd be in his office. A line formed otuside his office and he took complaints for the next couple of hours.

Now anyone can sit there and listen to people bitch left and right, but HE DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! He wen and got stuff changed to make our lives easier. He started watching why we were stepping to the jets late. Instead of blaming the aircrew, he pointed out to the Group Commander that OG policies dictated the impossible for crews to step on time with the tasks they were required to do, much less if there were any problems.

He made sure we had appropriate pubs for the jets and got on Stan/Eval to fix their programs. He worked with the OSS to have our gear ready for us at step time (not 5 minutes later). He took care of the little stuff and made us a better squadron.

And it all started with a bitch session...

...put that in your pipe and smoke it Psychiatrist!

[sky_king]

The second thing I took out of it is that he is saying I have to brainwash myself that everything is all good here in Blovistan sitting in a box.

This should help.

Edited February 2, 2012 by sky_king

[Guest]

To be fair, I think he's just trying to show that even under worse stressful conditions, maintaining a positive attitude is important.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

[Guest]

To be fair, I think he's just trying to show that even under worse stressful conditions, maintaining a positive attitude is important.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

You think you might've completely missed the fucking point Rifleman was trying to make about the comparison the guy made?

[BQZip01]

Thanks Captain Obvious.

You think you might've completely missed the fucking point Rifleman was trying to make about the comparison the guy made?

Then you missed my previous response

[Guest]

Then you missed my previous response

Previous to what?

Maybe you slap a couple dozen slide deck together for me to clarify?

[Splash95]

Blovistan...the newest of several affectionate nicknames I've heard for this "city" which harbors AFSOC's West Coast base. For my money though, Afcannonstan is still tops. I've had non-AF friends cracking up over that one.

Oh and I think my sqdn just had some big briefing for suicide awareness day. I slept throught it.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

This should help.

Saved. You will see this again, sooner rather than later, and not on this forum. Tell me I won't.

[BQZip01]

Previous to what?

Maybe you slap a couple dozen slide deck together for me to clarify?

Thanks Captain Repeat.

I guess you understand slides more than I do 'cause I had to look up what a "slide deck" was...

[Cornholio5]

No, I'm not saying that the day in and day out BS of the Air Force alone is what is leading people to kill themselves, I'm saying it isn't helping. Most people put a lot of effort into their job, and when they are rewarded with more queep and asspain it doesn't do a lot of good for their mental well being. Furthermore, the idea that you can just brief away the problem is simultaneously laughable and tragic.

Could not agree more. Big Blue, in my opinion is going through a pretty big self destructive cycle right now. When I got the email about that we were having a resiliency stand down day I laughed my ass off then my over-cynical side said that this was oh so typical of Big Blue. There should be yet one more stupid ADLS powerpoint coming our way soon that stresses resilience.

It's funny that you talk about people that do well get more queep. I learned that lesson the hard way and now I give 120% to my flying and just do what I need to do with all the other crap. Doing well by flying won't get me more queep because we are not really rewarded by our flying jobs anyway. It's frustrating on the absolute lack of focus of leadership. I got back from flying late the other night and saw our exec still working doing finishing touches on a wing "social event" coming up. He was pissed and frustrated that he was there so late and that his wife and kids were at home waiting but that he has to "just play the game." Well, some of you will disagree with me on this one, but just playing the game is continuing this cycle that is creating this modern Air Force that so many of us here on baseops complain about. I don't play the game, sure it is probably going to hurt me and I realize that, but I just can't let myself put up with all this BS. I love the opportunity that the Air Force has given me to fly and I intend to do the best at that that I can. In my previous airframe there were enlisted on board that have been in 30 years in some cases and it was really interesting to hear them talk about how the Air Force used to be. Most of them said that the climate was completely different and that people were happier overall.

If leadership really wants to help the suicide issue, maybe they should be looking at the root cause and the current environment in the Air Force today. I love everytime I see some of the typical AF propaganda talking about "the year of the Air Force Family"--maybe Amn Basic Snuffy who just graduated basic will buy that, but I sure as hell don't! They (leadership) want a culture of YES men that are fearful to speak up and they want to create a culture of fear. Alright venting is done....

Edited February 11, 2012 by Bojonflyr5

[Guest]

I had to look up what a "slide deck" was...

LOL

Sure you did.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Still going strong. I think the most telling thing I've seen in my time at Shoe Flag has been just how much leadership doesn't get how broken the force is. To a person there has been a general impression that "nothing to see here, move along" when questioned about the real problems in the Air Force.

[Dubs]

Still going strong. I think the most telling thing I've seen in my time at Shoe Flag has been just how much leadership doesn't get how broken the force is. To a person there has been a general impression that "nothing to see here, move along" when questioned about the real problems in the Air Force.

If they see their guy is stressed out' date=' they need to be given the opportunity to say, ‘We need to give this guy a day off,’” said a maintainer, who asked not to be named. “It just seems the more and more we try to give our guys a break, the more and more we have to do computer-based training.[/quote']

The USAF reminds me of that episode of Futurama where Fry and Amy are driving a hover car around Mars. They decided to ride with the top down since it was such a beatiful day out, but then they end up getting hot. In order to fight the heat, they decided to turn the A/C on (with the top still down). Then they get too cold, so they turn the heat on (with the top still down and the A/C going). Then they just keep turning up the air and then turning up the heat, trying to find that happy meidum, until the car finally just runs out of fuel.

We never address the actual problem... we just keep piling it on.

[guineapigfury]

We're having a monthly resiliency day at my current location. I'm just TDY, but now the permanent party has squeeze 20 days of work into 19 work days every month. Seeing as overwork is cited as one of the causes of suicide, maybe this isn't the best approach. Powerpoint and briefings are a desperate attempt to circumvent one of the basic requirements of leadership which is KNOWING YOUR PEOPLE.

[TAMInated]

There were two suicides at my base within 3 days of the last two resiliency days.

[guineapigfury]

There were two suicides at my base within 3 days of the last two resiliency days.

I think part of the problem (leadership fail, not suicide) is that we promote people who say/write things as opposed to doing things. So when suicides increase, they say "Be Resilient" and then appear to be literally mind-boggled when the problem continues. I don't know a single person who thinks these "resiliency days" are actually helping. Maybe, as no fly days, they're taking some of the pressure off of MX, which from what I've read is one of the leading groups for suicide. That's the only value I can see.

[BitteEinBit]

I think part of the problem (leadership fail, not suicide) is that we promote people who say/write things as opposed to doing things. So when suicides increase, they say "Be Resilient" and then appear to be literally mind-boggled when the problem continues. I don't know a single person who thinks these "resiliency days" are actually helping. Maybe, as no fly days, they're taking some of the pressure off of MX, which from what I've read is one of the leading groups for suicide. That's the only value I can see.

Not only do they 'say' things and not 'do' things, they say things they know will help them get promoted. They ignore the real problems because it isn't what they want to hear. They really want it to be something they can fix with a few CBTs and a CC call.

Air Force management doesn't address the source of any admin issue...they throw paperwork at it and hope it goes away. I'm not saying the pressure of the one mistake Air Force is going to drive people to suicide, but the fact that the Air Force is quick to start paperwork on weak performers without addressing the source is a failure in leadership IMO. It isn't noticed because we have managers bean counting and managing paperwork and no leaders leading people. While management likes to say they provide avenues to talk to about personal problems, often times those individuals are 'labeled.' In today's AF, they are looking to get rid of the 'problem' children, and I believe people with personal issues that affect their work are inadvertently weeded out once they are identified as opposed to having their issues addressed. It is part of the reason people don't speak up or want to give their name when they see problems (refence the article).

Overworked, over stressed, instability, the on-again-off-again, cuts, no-cuts, ok more cuts strategy seems to be wearing on the force. What is the Air Force doing to address these things other than talking out of two sides of their mouths? Do you really think any O-5 or above is going to report that things are not ok with the morale of their people? That their people are over worked and stressed? That the cuts we are getting ready to take arent healthy for the force? No..it is Yes Sir, everything is great Sir! Certainly a General whose predecessor was fired for not playing the game isn't going to tell his bosses these cuts this early are a bad idea. Until the AF invests in its people and no-shit addresses and fixes the route causes of people's stresses, we'll continue to see a rise in suicides, domestic violence, ARIs, and other administrative issues. Just my opinion...and at my rank, it doesn't matter.

[BolterKing]

Resilient is just a PC way of saying "suck it up."

More deployments, less support, a war that has lost any meaning, and no end in sight. Is it really that hard to figure out?

[WeMeantWell]

No, it really isn't.

Resilience day should provide an opportunity to forget about your life/job/enslavement for awhile. Off-site, civilian clothes, families involved, fun, no "Briefings", no CBTs, corn-hole tourney, trust-falls, Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling, and copious amounts of non-alcoholic beer. The human mind can only accept so much stress over set periods of time; why do we have to learn this through empirical evidence... you don't push people to the average limit, because everyone below the average can't take it. You only push people to the lowest common limit (young airmen that barely understand life, and we place the weight of the world on their shoulders), and only then will you see the reduction in suicides. Pushing folks is a fact of life in the military over short durations, but over 10 years it becomes dangerously ineffective.

Solution: Reduce the necessary stress wherever/whenever possible: you could argue that maybe AADs/inspections/etc make sense during a peace-time force, but really have no business while actively engaged. Do we really need to deploy 5 FGOs to create power point slides for the Col? Get rid of any and all extraneous stress/duties/deployments and provide stress reliving opportunities whenever possible. Instead of TA for AAD, we need TA-like assistance to go on a cruise, vaca, or other recreational activities. I would rather see tax dollars spent on outdoor rec, than an O'club/Plasmas/BX, so any soldier can actually afford to enjoy more of what they offer. Every base should be required to have a pool, go-cart track (german-style), put-put course, obstacle course, etc., well before we spend a dime on a plasma TV, TIB.

You reduce this stress, If you really want to stop suicides, by learning how to say NO to your superiors. NO, we can't launch a 10 turn 10 turn 10. NO, we can't prep for an inspection, fight 2 wars, deploy everywhere, and stay sane. Not only NO, but Hell NO I will not waive his post-deployment down time. You say it enough times and 1 of 2 things will happen: You will get fired and lose your job, or 2 your boss will stop asking. If you get fired, your replacement has a better chance of saying the same thing and might be listened to. I would rather be out of a job by politely dissenting than knowing I pushed the people under me so much that the enemy was no longer the threat, I was. I've come to realize a simple litmus test for a poor leader: He always says Yes to his boss and No to his subordinates, without any thought to the effects of such decisions.

Great leaders realize what's important for their unit and when necessary disregard the chaff (AAD, PME, Ancilliary, AFA, CFC, PFT, inspections...) and reward them (not just "award" them) with the opportunity to live stress free and enjoy the benefits of the freedom they provide, if only for a short period of time. I think there are more leaders like this then we think, they just get overshadowed by the temporarily great achievements of other leaders who disregard this logic and by blind, shear luck make it through a 2 year stint without a fallout.

[sky_king]

Resilience day should provide an opportunity to forget about your life/job/enslavement for awhile. Off-site, civilian clothes, families involved, fun, no "Briefings", no CBTs, corn-hole tourney, trust-falls, Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling, and copious amounts of non-alcoholic beer.

Nah, I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone when I say that the Friday 0800-1600 briefings followed by a commander's call are where you make your money...

[StainedClass]

They (senior leadership) just don't get it.

Ours was on Friday, started at 0800 and ended at 1630 and then the base went straight into ATSO training until about 1830.

This.

I'd like to punch the shoe in the face that convinced the old man to tack two hours of ATSO to mandatory suicide briefings.

We've had suicide standown days before. The best briefing I ever saw was my old CC having the exec thumb through the slides like he was taking the Info Security CBT and then shut off the screen. He looked at each one of us as he said (paraphrased):

"The reason I don't want any of you to commit suicide is because I care about each and every one of you and your families and I want you to realize the wake of despair you would leave if you took your own life. If you feel like you want to harm yourself, talk to someone, anyone, call me if you want, anytime day or night. Now go home to your families. If you don't have a family, start one."

Good guy. That's leadership.

Edited May 6, 2012 by StainedClass

[hindsight2020]

This.

I'd like to punch the shoe in the face that convinced the old man to tack two hours of ATSO to mandatory suicide briefings.

We've had suicide standown days before. The best briefing I ever saw was my old CC having the exec thumb through the slides like he was taking the Info Security CBT and then shut off the screen. He looked at each one of us as he said (paraphrased):

"The reason I don't want any of you to commit suicide is because I care about each and every one of you and your families and I want you to realize the wake of despair you would leave if you took your own life. If you feel like you want to harm yourself, talk to someone, anyone, call me if you want, anytime day or night. Now go home to your families. If you don't have a family, start one."

Good guy. That's leadership.

Fuckin' a'... The dude will never make flag, even if he wanted to. We need a war (and by war I don't mean Lybia and REMF laden Afghniraq) and people need to start dying for that kind of leadership to be allowed at the top. Funny catch-22 we live in.

Edited May 6, 2012 by hindsight2020

[Whitty]

Anyone that writes CBTs or briefings telling others, "If you reach out and be a pal, you can prevent suicide," has never had someone close to them commit suicide. I've lived that grief and carried the guilt of wondering if there's something I could have done or said. It took a long time before I finally accepted the fact that taking your own life is not something you can rationalize.

[BQZip01]

Anyone that writes CBTs or briefings telling others, "If you reach out and be a pal, you can prevent suicide," has never had someone close to them commit suicide. I've lived that grief and carried the guilt of wondering if there's something I could have done or said. It took a long time before I finally accepted the fact that taking your own life is not something you can rationalize.

That's an oversimplification on both accounts. Yes, saying "I care about you" CAN prevent a suicide, but that doesn't guarantee it. I've NEVER had someone under me even attempt it. I let ALL of my people know the implications of a suicide. Look 'em ALL square in the eye and let them know that people do care and that, no matter the problem, it WILL pass. Your life may not return to normal, but your life WILL improve even if you feel it can't.

I've had the unfortunate circumstance of telling a mother her son killed himself. His suicide note stated he felt like no one cared...at his funeral over 600 people showed up. 700 more sent their regrets that they could not attend on short notice. People DO CARE!!!

I also agree that it is not a rational act, so it isn't possible to rationalize it. Don't try to make sense of something that is, by definition, outside reality.

[Shortbus]

That's an oversimplification on both accounts. Yes, saying "I care about you" CAN prevent a suicide, but that doesn't guarantee it. I've NEVER had someone under me even attempt it. I let ALL of my people know the implications of a suicide. Look 'em ALL square in the eye and let them know that people do care and that, no matter the problem, it WILL pass. Your life may not return to normal, but your life WILL improve even if you feel it can't.

I've had the unfortunate circumstance of telling a mother her son killed himself. His suicide note stated he felt like no one cared...at his funeral over 600 people showed up. 700 more sent their regrets that they could not attend on short notice. People DO CARE!!!

I also agree that it is not a rational act, so it isn't possible to rationalize it. Don't try to make sense of something that is, by definition, outside reality.

And to think, I only have 250 facebook friends.