I think they TOTALLY get it (Suicides)

[BitteEinBit]

Sorry to hear that. A true measure of a person's worth is how many friends they have posting disingenuous trivial bullshit on thier wall. Less than 500 and maybe a person does have reason to question thier existence.

Shortbus, there are at least 500 BO.net bubbas who care about you in addition to your 250 FB friends...you're covered. Now go do this CBT and bring me the certificate so we can document it and show that you won't kill yourself.....

[chim richalds]

Gruesome subject, but it's kind of just a fact of life. When a huge amount of your workforce is 18-25 year old males under alot of stress, this will happen. Most of the guys I know who enlisted were kind of loaners who wanted to get out of town, or had no real education. If you look around other orgs with 400K people, I bet our suicide rate isn't that bad. It may be controversial, but people should ignore or ridicule those who commit suicide. I believe most people do it for attention, and what their "legacy" would be. If we didn't celebrate them, maybe they would think twice. Put a suicide counter by the gate instead of a DUI, and maybe it will change a few minds.

[pcola]

Now go do this CBT and bring me the certificate so we can document it and show that you won't we tried our best to keep you from killing yourself.....

FIFY

[Rusty Pipes]

It may be controversial, but people should ignore or ridicule those who commit suicide. I believe most people do it for attention, and what their "legacy" would be. If we didn't celebrate them, maybe they would think twice. Put a suicide counter by the gate instead of a DUI, and maybe it will change a few minds.

Seriously??? You should send an e-mail to the parents of Phoebe Prince in Massachusetts ridiculing her for killing herself... that will teach other kids not to get bullied! The Army had a record rate of suicides in 2011 for active duty members returning from deployments to the AOR. Those PTSD attention seeking fools should just be ignored, right? No wonder those CBTs and suicide prevention days are so useless... apparently we need to change the message and let everyone know that when a friend or family member says they are thinking about hurting themselves that the correct response should be to ridicule them and tell them to quit trying to be such an attention hog!!!

Throughout my career there have unfortunately been multiple suicides at every base I've been at and I have had the misfortune of having to sit through multiple Command VTCs briefing detailed reports on suicides by service members. Weird, I don't remember any of them being celebrated by anyone. I do recall in every case there being friends and family members who said they either ignored/didn't see obvious signs or even instances of them not acting when the person straight out told them they wanted to kill/hurt themselves. I guess if they only had someone around to ridicule them at the time they might be with us today, right?

[chim richalds]

Take it easy fellas, it's just one man's opinion. I'm interested to see your solutions. I'm sure it's related to the NFL and concussions in some way.

[slackline]

Take it easy fellas, it's just one man's opinion. I'm interested to see your solutions. I'm sure it's related to the NFL and concussions in some way.

Troll...

[BQZip01]

You want a solution? Here's one thought that's already been mentioned: Put up a sign at the front of the base which shows how many days it has been since the last suicide (might as well throw on "Days since an accidental death" as well). It puts it at the forefront of people's minds as something to avoid.

We also need to do something else: accept that it is inevitable! Some people are going to do irrational things: DUI, hurt themselves while on vacation, use a jetski in a reckless manner, drive too fast, commit suicide, etc. It doesn't matter how much we preach how bad it is for everyone, people are still going to do things that don't make sense; it's a given.

I also think the whole DUI push is severe overkill. The impression on base is that you can rape the commander's teenage daughter and kill his dog and you will STILL get in less trouble than a DUI...ok, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I think a lot of folks on base feel that DUI is overemphasized in a lot of ways. I should also be clear that DUI is indeed something VERY stupid to do and COMPLETELY preventable and should be punished harshly, I just think it's overemphasized.

[Splash95]

Resilient is just a PC way of saying "suck it up."

More deployments, less support, a war that has lost any meaning, and no end in sight. Is it really that hard to figure out?

2. We had a resiliency day here yesterday, consisting of briefings (in blues, obviously) starting at 0800, break a couple hours later to change into PT gear and run a 5K, shower and back into blues, more briefings until 1530 or so, then basewide O-call from 1600-1700+ (after which I spent the evening doing CBTs). The Wg/CC didn't even try to be PC--his message was basically "I know things suck; suck it up and quit whining. And by the way, do your masters as a LT, pay for a club membership, and don't even think about morale patches or rolling up sleeves." At the end he threw in the obligatory "you're doing a great job, keep it up [sts]", which he admitted was only because a staff member told him he needed to include a positive thought.

I respect the fact that he was up front and didn't try to bullsh!t us. The speech was certainly no morale booster, but in my opinion, morale doesn't matter much in the short term. My morale may be in the sh!tter, but I'm still going to get up and go do my job as well as I fvcking can because people's lives depend on it. The true effects of how airmen feel about their jobs will only be felt (and to an extent has been felt) when the day comes for each of us to actually decide whether we want to keep doing the job or not.

[StainedClass]

Most of the guys I know who enlisted were kind of loaners who wanted to get out of town, or had no real education.

Wow. Good thing you received a real education.

You're going to be a real prince to work for someday.

Edited May 8, 2012 by StainedClass

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

2. We had a resiliency day here yesterday, consisting of briefings (in blues, obviously) starting at 0800, break a couple hours later to change into PT gear and run a 5K, shower and back into blues, more briefings until 1530 or so, then basewide O-call from 1600-1700+ (after which I spent the evening doing CBTs). The Wg/CC didn't even try to be PC--his message was basically "I know things suck; suck it up and quit whining. And by the way, do your masters as a LT, pay for a club membership, and don't even think about morale patches or rolling up sleeves." At the end he threw in the obligatory "you're doing a great job, keep it up [sts]", which he admitted was only because a staff member told him he needed to include a positive thought.

I respect the fact that he was up front and didn't try to bullsh!t us. The speech was certainly no morale booster, but in my opinion, morale doesn't matter much in the short term. My morale may be in the sh!tter, but I'm still going to get up and go do my job as well as I fvcking can because people's lives depend on it. The true effects of how airmen feel about their jobs will only be felt (and to an extent has been felt) when the day comes for each of us to actually decide whether we want to keep doing the job or not.

Wow. I'm glad I'm not where you are. Morale certainly does matter. If morale wasn't in the shitter then all this resiliency BS wouldn't be necessary. High morale and suicide rates are inversely proportional. The happier someone is to come to work every day and do their job, the less likely they are to kill themselves, and it doesn't have anything to do with how many demands are being placed on them. The most satisfied I ever have been in my job is a period when I was flying 18 hour sorties with 24 hours between them. It was a kick in the face, but I couldn't wait to get up and do it again because I was enjoying what I was doing and felt that it was very rewarding and worthwhile. Leadership was singularly focused on getting the Job done (not "the mission" which has become a trophy word to hand out to EVERYONE). Queep was non existent because it didn't matter, and we were loving life. That's the kind of Air Force we should be fostering.

A commander should never have to tell their troops to "suck it up." Continually putting troops in a situation where they must "suck it up" against their will is a sign of very poor leadership. We are often asked to do some very stressful, demanding and often dangerous things. When they are meaningful I can't think of a person alive who wouldn't gladly "suck it up" without ever having to be told to do so. It's when tasks become menial, degrading, or worthless while still being stressful, demanding and dangerous is when you run into a situation where people must be told to "suck it up" because leadership has failed to prioritize tasks and manage the important vs unimportant things, and the people suffer as a result.

[BitteEinBit]

Wow. I'm glad I'm not where you are. Morale certainly does matter. If morale wasn't in the shitter then all this resiliency BS wouldn't be necessary. High morale and suicide rates are inversely proportional. The happier someone is to come to work every day and do their job, the less likely they are to kill themselves, and it doesn't have anything to do with how many demands are being placed on them. The most satisfied I ever have been in my job is a period when I was flying 18 hour sorties with 24 hours between them. It was a kick in the face, but I couldn't wait to get up and do it again because I was enjoying what I was doing and felt that it was very rewarding and worthwhile. Leadership was singularly focused on getting the Job done (not "the mission" which has become a trophy word to hand out to EVERYONE). Queep was non existent because it didn't matter, and we were loving life. That's the kind of Air Force we should be fostering.

A commander should never have to tell their troops to "suck it up." Continually putting troops in a situation where they must "suck it up" against their will is a sign of very poor leadership. We are often asked to do some very stressful, demanding and often dangerous things. When they are meaningful I can't think of a person alive who wouldn't gladly "suck it up" without ever having to be told to do so. It's when tasks become menial, degrading, or worthless while still being stressful, demanding and dangerous is when you run into a situation where people must be told to "suck it up" because leadership has failed to prioritize tasks and manage the important vs unimportant things, and the people suffer as a result.

Very well put. I remember that Air Force and when people ask when I was having the most fun, those are exactly the times I talk about. For any commander to just say 'suck it up' as an answer to the suck, has obviously failed at leadership and is certainly well on his/her way to the top of this organization. The WG/CC in Splash's post will definitely go far...and continue to give that same speech following the next group of increased suicide rates. And speaking of Splash's post, that itinerary alone is enough to make me want to kill myself, if not slowly jam an ice pick into my eye. Their answer to 'suck' is a day full of more suck followed by CBTs? Really? They just don't 'get it.'

'Suck it up' today really equates to "you're just going to have to put up with it because Big Blue owns you bitches!" Take advantage while you can AF, the economy will recover.

[Splash95]

]And speaking of Splash's post, that itinerary alone is enough to make me want to kill myself, if not slowly jam an ice pick into my eye. Their answer to 'suck' is a day full of more suck followed by CBTs? Really? They just don't 'get it.' 'Suck it up' today really equates to "you're just going to have to put up with it because Big Blue owns you bitches!" Take advantage while you can AF, the economy will recover.

To be fair, the CBT session only came about because I'd been on leave last week and didn't realize until late in the game that I needed to complete not one, not two, but THREE CBTs which all somehow pertain to CBRNE BEFORE showing up to the actual CBRNE class today. I ended up missing that class anyway after going on a wild goose chase across the base trying to pick up some equipment I apparently needed, only to finally be told that the person who could get me that equipment (along with any backups/alternates) was out for the day. It was so UFB I had to LOL.

[fightintexasaggie]

2. We had a resiliency day here yesterday, consisting of briefings (in blues, obviously) starting at 0800, break a couple hours later to change into PT gear and run a 5K, shower and back into blues, more briefings until 1530 or so, then basewide O-call from 1600-1700+ (after which I spent the evening doing CBTs). The Wg/CC didn't even try to be PC--his message was basically "I know things suck; suck it up and quit whining. And by the way, do your masters as a LT, pay for a club membership, and don't even think about morale patches or rolling up sleeves." At the end he threw in the obligatory "you're doing a great job, keep it up [sts]", which he admitted was only because a staff member told him he needed to include a positive thought.

I respect the fact that he was up front and didn't try to bullsh!t us. The speech was certainly no morale booster, but in my opinion, morale doesn't matter much in the short term. My morale may be in the sh!tter, but I'm still going to get up and go do my job as well as I fvcking can because people's lives depend on it. The true effects of how airmen feel about their jobs will only be felt (and to an extent has been felt) when the day comes for each of us to actually decide whether we want to keep doing the job or not.

I don't know man, I thought the worst part of the brief was when he told us that Donner Kebab was getting sh*tcanned. Talk about a morale killer...

[Shortbus]

Sorry to hear that. A true measure of a person's worth is how many friends they have posting disingenuous trivial bullshit on thier wall. Less than 500 and maybe a person does have reason to question thier existence.

Shortbus, there are at least 500 BO.net bubbas who care about you in addition to your 250 FB friends...you're covered. Now go do this CBT and bring me the certificate so we can document it and show that you won't kill yourself.....

LOL - I feel so much better, thanks.

[BQZip01]

I don't know man, I thought the worst part of the brief was when he told us that Donner Kebab was getting sh*tcanned. Talk about a morale killer...

F***ing figures. These guys take a day out of the schedule for CBTs and briefings which will somehow magically reduce the chances of a suicide (thereby INCREASING the workload for the rest of the week to make up for the lost day) and then mention someone's been fired. WTF is going on?!?!

[Dead Last]

I don't know man, I thought the worst part of the brief was when he told us that Donner Kebab was getting sh*tcanned. Talk about a morale killer...

The more important issue is what happened to Donner Kebab? It was actually pretty good and convenient...

non-alcoholic cheers from downrange

[Guest]

The more important issue is what happened to Donner Kebab? It was actually pretty good and convenient...

non-alcoholic cheers from downrange

They eventually were rescued.

[OregonHerc]

Moving just off base...and he's going to have a separate place by Wal-Mart.

The more important issue is what happened to Donner Kebab? It was actually pretty good and convenient...

non-alcoholic cheers from downrange

[Dead Last]

Moving just off base...and he's going to have a separate place by Wal-Mart.

Awesome, I guess he was tired of AAFES having their taste of the profits.

[JeepGuyC17]

Awesome, I guess he was tired of AAFES having their taste of the profits.

We had a doner stand next to the BX at CHS for a while, but they eventually got chased away too.

[Murph]

A commander should never have to tell their troops to "suck it up."

Where do you get this leadership gem from? Sun Tzu? Clausewitz?

Do you even know what base Splash is talking about?

Edited May 14, 2012 by Murph

[Surf70]

Some years ago at the Deid I happened to be hanging out with some of my Brit friends and some how ended up in one of their squadron leader "talks". He started out by saying he had some "bad" news, and then some really "bad" news he had to share. He started off by saying that they (the brits) lost a Nimrod over afghanistan and there were no survivors. A humble silence fell over the group as he read the names of the crew members lost. He asked for a moment of silence (something we don't do anymore, thanks to the liberals), for the members and their families. After the moment of silence he went on with the rest of the bad news. "And for the other bad news, the bar has been closed pending the agreement with the yanks after their change of command"... A huge uproar erruppted, with "Those Bastards", and "Piss off you beeb, beeb and beeb"... I felt sorry for their squadron leader, but I figured he knew what he was getting into before he called the meeting. This went on for at least thirty minutes, of name calling and "when will it be decided, "F them we will go home" ect...

Where folks is our moral fiber? What has happened to us? Where is the balance? I have always liked the Brits, and the Aussies for that matter. They understand people better than we do, and "get it"... We used to be just like them. What happened? Loosen the noose around people's necks, and the suicide rates will drop. Common sense here folks... What happened to it?

[HoHum]

[busdriver]

lost a Nimrod over afghanistan and there were no survivors.

Summer 2006?

[Surf70]

Summer 2006?

Thats a Roger...