AFRC Force structure changes...

[JS]

Maybe my wording got lost in my attempt at cynicism, but you don't think that all three branches (if you want to call them that) of the Air Force - Guard, AFRC, and AD - are going to throw out the political card and all three ultimately wind up losing in the end?

To me, I really don't see much of a difference - politically - in closing an active duty base or unit versus a guard or reserve unit. The local and state politicians are going to be just as up in arms. Would the senators and congressmen from Mississippi sit by and watch if the AFRC Herks at Keesler vanished as opposed to the guard C-17's in Jackson? Would the politicians do nothing if they tried to close an active duty base in the state such as Columbus, as opposed to, God-forbid, the Northrop Shipyard?

Look at Georgia. I have a feeling that the "powerful politicians" would be just as pissed if the AD mission at Moody was BRACed, or if the AFRC planes at Dobins disappeared, or if the Guard unit in Macon closed, or if something happened to prevent the Lockheed Plant in Marietta from producing more Herks.

I throw these major civilian businesses associated with each state into this argument because I believe those entities are playing a large role in the horse trading that is going on at the Congressional level that will ultimately decide which Guard, Reserve, and Active Duty units stay open.

[Catbox]

Admittedly, I'm a relative amateur when it comes to CAS but it sure seems to reason that getting rid of the A-10's (in all components) takes a pretty big arrow out of our quiver with regards to the more traditional symmetric wars. The Wikipedia version of the PLA shows 9000 tanks, Iran with a decent reliance on mechanized divisions and NK with about 3000 tanks of all varieties. Now with A-10s record in the asymmetric wars and with the amount of bang provided for its buck...I just don't get it.

[brabus]

It'll probably be a repeat of back in the day when the AF had pretty much thrown the A-10 to the side and said we don't need it...until the Army said they'd take it...whoa now! Then Desert Storm came around and minds were completely changed. So, seems to me we may be making a repeat mistake from our history...weird, that never happens.

[TheGuardGuy]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/mobile/index.php?storyUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airforcetimes.com%2Fnews%2F2012%2F02%2Fair-force-guard-49-governors-oppose-air-force-cuts-022712w%2F

[Guest]

Good humor...

[JS]

All I keep thinking of is a quote from a great veteran of this board:

And that was "way back in the day" in 2011 when the dismantling was not even in its infancy.

We are in desperate need of honest debate in this country to decide things such as how many social programs we want and how much we are willing to pay for them versus how much national defense we want and how much are we willing to pay for it. This is getting crazy.

[matmacwc]

Any rumors on the manpower cuts for the AFRES/ANG that are supposed to come out Tuesday?

[moto]

PDF state by state https://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120306-055.pdf

Explanation https://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120306-047.pdf

af.mil news article https://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123292694

[matmacwc]

Did anyone save the State Impact PDF? They took it down! PM if you got it!

[Termy]

Don't PM it; send the link!

[matmacwc]

That's the point, the link has been taken down.

[shift]

Still works at this link:

https://militarytimes...raft-losses.pdf

I also attached it

aircraft-losses.pdf

[matmacwc]

Lemme be a little clearer, manpower losses, not jets. Next?

[HerkFE]

So three of the Air Force Reserve Bands are getting cut. We are going from 13 bands down to 10. Such a sad day...... https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macon.com%2F2012%2F03%2F10%2F1939743%2Fdisbanding.html%3Fstorylink%3Daddthis%23.T11QvH6wsal.facebook&h=EAQFyodceAQFhnqNMLU3VJ4DofPCRa93-76qhkl1DkV72aw

“We knew we were going to play in it somehow,” he said. “You can’t ask folks to stand down fighter wings and not stand down a band. It’s just sad, and it’s unfortunate it happened here.”..............You shouldn't shut down a single unit that contributes to the fight before shutting down ALL bands. THIRTEEN Bands in AFRC. UFB! How many on AD? How many Tops in Blow bands are there? I know, we've beat this dead horse enough. Eng out.

[Guest]

"We want both..."

[rancormac]

When do all of these budget decisions/cuts to AFRC/ANG units become final?

[Guest]

Actually, never.

[Learjetter]

Actually, never.

Until they do.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/137th_Air_Refueling_Wing

Edited March 14, 2012 by Learjetter

[Surf70]

I miss the OK city guys with their Herks... Now Nashville is gone, who is next?

[lloyd christmas]

"We want both..."

The local news here in Little Rock has also been reporting that the folks involved in trying to save the 188th are pushing to bring back the F-16s. I hadnt heard the one about flying both the drones and the A-10s.

[Guest]

The local news here in Little Rock has also been reporting that the folks involved in trying to save the 188th are pushing to bring back the F-16s. I hadnt heard the one about flying both the drones and the A-10s.

Maybe they can get all three and move a Herc unit over and we can get the Pope Composite Wing band back together. Where's Moondog?

Edited March 14, 2012 by Rainman A-10

[Herculean]

https://www.military.com/news/article/af-guard-aircraft-brawl-continues.html?ESRC=airforce-a.nl

Somebody is lying. Anyone know who?

[Chida]

My bet's on Schwartz. He came up in there at LR May 2011 (I think). During the Q/A someone asked why all these cats were denied VSP and why the RIF was then going to be held. He said, and I quote, "Not enough people volunteered for the VSP."

And onto another quote by T. Jefferson, "He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second or third time, till at length it becomes habitual; he lies without attending to it, and truths without the world's believing him. This falsehood of tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all its good dispositions."

[Guest]

“How many Guardsmen did the Air Force go out of its way to provide you in that budget briefing?” the Guard official asked. “I bet zero -- and there’s a reason for that.”

There sure as hell is.

[amcflyboy]

Here's for you Guard folks:

National Guard News - Air Force announces force structure and mission changes

"The Air National Guard’s changes include:

Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson Air Force Base, Alaska – Retire four C-130 Hercules military transport aircraft.

Dannelly Airfield, Ala. – Retire one RC-26 Metroliner military transport aircraft (planned in the 2015 fiscal year).

Ft. Smith, Ark. –Retire 20 A-10 Thunderbolt jet aircraft; Add one MQ-1/9 Reaper Remote Split Operations unit.

Little Rock, Ark. – Retire one C-130H2 (planned in the 2017 fiscal year).

Sky Harbor Air Guard Station, Ariz. – Retire one KC-135 Stratotanker military transport aircraft.

Tucson, Ariz. – Retire one RC-26 aircraft (planned in the 2015 fiscal year).

Fresno Air National Guard Base, Calif. – Retire one RC-26 aircraft.

Bradley ANGB, Conn. – C-27J Spartan military transport aircraft squadron will not open (loss of four future aircraft); add nine to 11 MC-12W Liberty aircraft (planned for the 2014 fiscal year).

Jacksonville, Fla. – Retire one RC-26 aircraft (planned for the 2015 fiscal year).

Savannah, Ga. – Retire eight C-130H2 aircraft (planned for the 2016 fiscal year); add eight C-130H3 (planned for the 2016 fiscal year).

Robins, Ga. – Retire one E-8 Joint STARS battle management aircraft.

Des Moines, Iowa - Retire 21 F-16 Fighting Falcon jet aircraft; add one MQ-1/9 RSO unit.

Sioux City AGS, Iowa – Retire one KC-135 aircraft.

Ft Wayne, Ind. – Retire 20 A-10 aircraft; add nine to 11 MC-12W aircraft (planned for the 2014 fiscal year).

Louisville, Ky. – Transfer one C-130H2.5 aircraft.

Warfield AGS, Martin State, Md. – C-27J squadron will not open (loss of four future aircraft) ; add ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) Group and expand Net Warfare Squadron.

Selfridge, Mich. – Retire 21 A-10 aircraft; add four KC-135Rs.

Kellogg AGS, Mich. – Retire four C-27J aircraft; add one MQ-1/9 RSO unit.

Meridian, Miss. – Retire six C-27J aircraft; retire one RC-26 aircraft (planned for the 2015 fiscal year); add nine to 11 MC-12W aircraft (planned for the 2014 fiscal year).

Rosecrans AGS, Mo. –Retire eight C-130H2.5s; transfer two C-130H2.5s aircraft; add eight C-130H3s (planned for the 2014 fiscal year).

Great Falls, Mont. – C-27J squadron will not open (loss of four future aircraft); add eight C-130sH2 (planned in the 2014 fiscal year).

Charlotte, N.C. – Transfer two C-130 (planned for the 2017 fiscal year).

Fargo, N.D. – C-27J squadron will not open (loss of four future aircraft).

Kirtland AFB, N.M. – Retire one RC-26 aircraft (planned for the 2015 fiscal year).

(Stratton AGS) Schenectady, N.Y. – Retire four C-130H2 aircraft.

Survey says....wrong! They're going to take those 4 H-2's and send them to Little Rock to support the school house. Direct from our WG/CC just a couple of weeks ago.