First female 4-star

[Guest]

The scary reality is that there simply isn't a rated dude with combat time, the experience in acquisitions, and the logistics / MX exposure to handle all of AFMC right now.

Bullshit.

We are talking about the commander, not scientists or test pilots or logisticians. We're talking about general management skills, not highly technical skills. There are plenty of people who could do that job.

[Dupe]

Bullshit.

We are talking about the commander, not scientists or test pilots or logisticians. We're talking about general management skills, not highly technical skills. There are plenty of people who could do that job.

I'm not arguing that running AFMC takes technical skills. Hell, at times, I think a labor/contract attorney could do it best. I'm saying that AFMC is a very unique command that really takes some understanding of all the different 'lanes' of the organization. Getting the right person to run this mess is key to getting the technology developed, systems aquired, and products maintained through the next decade. The previous two AFMC/CCs have been guys with a long operational resumes and only time working AF level requirements as a GO. Why now the vector-change to have a non-rated MAJCOM/CC with a bucket-load of acquisition time? In this case, Wolfenbarger was picked not because she was a "she," but because the SECAF thinks she's the best person to improve the dysfunctional family that is AFMC.

[backseatdriver]

Acquisition Captain and Majors can work in the JOC.

Doing what?

[afnav]

If she can do the best job, that's fine with me.

From what I've seen from the COCOM level, acquisitions is severely screwed up. I'm watching the team that oversaw the abortion known as FAB-T getting team of the year honors and the military members promoted hand and fist. If this 4-star can fix it, then I'm all for giving her the chance. From what I've seen, it isn't a 'military' problem, a 'civilian' problem or a 'contractor' problem. It's a culture problem.

However, don't wave the 'expeditionary' in my face and tell me that everyone will deploy. The Air Force is bad enough about generalizations, so cut out at least that one.

[HeloDude]

Wait... what? Are you saying Obama's administration is behind this?

Doesn't the Senate confirm GOs? Isn't the Senate a Republican majority?

Major disconnect if you're blaming the Obama administration on this one. Sure she may have been nominated by the President (on the recommendation of the Sec Def and SECAF), but it falls on the Senate to confirm or deny.

Appears as though appropriate critiques have already been made...I just love how you were so quick to fight on the argument, but then again, it suits you well.

The President and his staff have every right to appoint who they want to be MAJCOM/CC and receive a 4th star, but there is always a reason for doing everything when you're a politician (regardless of the party), and the decision is not made in a bubble and is not 100% based off objective reasoning.

In this case, Wolfenbarger was picked not because she was a "she," but because the SECAF thinks she's the best person to improve the dysfunctional family that is AFMC.

Really dude? The fact that she is a woman had nothing to do with the administration's decision? I'm a conservative libertarian and even I'm not naive enough to think that Bush and his staff's decision to invade Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with oil and/or politics. Give me a break man. There's also a political reason for every big decision/act those guys make. If you don't agree, then you've really filled yourself up on the kool-aid.

Homework assignment for you (I'm too lazy on a weekend to check)...show me a male general officer in the Air Force that was promoted 3 times within 2 1/2-3 years to the rank of 4 star?

Bottom line is that I hope she will do a good job in the position and do what's best for the force. Just don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Edited February 11, 2012 by HeloDude

[Guest]

It is not like they made her the CENTCOM Commander.

Noted. He did just fine, despite the dismount.

[Mitch Weaver]

Doing what?

Copying and pasting...just like everyone else.

[Vertigo]

Appears as though appropriate critiques have already been made...I just love how you were so quick to fight on the argument, but then again, it suits you well.

I wasn't "quick to fight the argument", as you say, rather I thought I was pointing out a fatal flaw in your premise. Too bad my brain wasn't fully engaged before I posted.

[Guest]

Copying and pasting eating paste...just like everyone else.

[ClearedHot]

I have never worked acquisitions and don't feel sorry for them. You obviously did and see the need to defend them.

100% incorrect...as usual.

[General Condition]

Homework assignment for you (I'm too lazy on a weekend to check)...show me a male general officer in the Air Force that was promoted 3 times within 2 1/2-3 years to the rank of 4 star?

Couldn't find one. Probably because such a beast doesn't exist. Here's a sample of some 4-stars (time from making MG to GEN) for comparison:

Carlisle - 6 years, 5 months

Hostage - 6 years, 1 month

Breedlove - 5 years, 6 months

Shelton - 6 years, 6 months

Welsh - 7 years, 4 months

Rice Jr. - 5 years, 3 months

Johns Jr. - 5 years, 3 months

North - 4 years, 2 months

Fraser - 4 years, 10 months

Hoffman - 5 years, 5 months

McKinley - 7 years, 6 months

Fraser III - 5 years

Lorenz - 8 years, 6 months

Brady - 8 years, 10 months

Chandler - 7 years, 8 months

Kehler - 4 years, 2 months

Lichte - 8 years, 2 months

Just for shits and giggles, LeMay - 7 years, 7 months

Eisenhower was temporarily promoted to Colonel in March, 1941. By February 1943, he was temporarily promoted to General.

Call me crazy, but I don't think Wolfenbarger is in the same class as Ike. I'm not making judgment as to whether or not she deserves it, but it does call into question as to why she was promoted so quickly - especially since she has remained in a non-combat AFSC for her entire career.

She made it in roughly half the time it took the fastest top two on the above list. North's record speaks for itself, and Kehler carried some serious weight in the ICBM community during the Cold War.

I'm always wary of headlines that "identify" someone. When you write "first female, yada yada yada" you've taken away everything that woman has accomplished because you admit that the big news isn't that someone got promoted it's about what is/is not between their legs.

For any PA/shoe types who are reading this and disagree, think about it this way: next time you read something like that, substitute "white male" in the headline. Then think about how you feel about it. Does it remind you about some speech by some dude talking about not judging people based on their gender, race, creed, etc?

[Prosuper]

Probably explains why LGen Loren Reno decided to retire on the first of the this month, good guy and first rate logistics/maintenance officer. Was looking at the USA female 4 star bio and she had alot of overseas time and some in the sand box. On the outside looking in it looks strictly as political appointment. Dont know how seriously all the other 4stars will refer to her in the next Corona conferance.

[Guest one]

https://www.af.mil/in....asp?bioID=5585

General John A Gordon

• Second Lieutenant June 4, 1968
  
• First Lieutenant December 4, 1969
  
• Captain June 4, 1971
  
• Major September 1, 1979
  
• Lieutenant Colonel November 1, 1981
  
• Colonel December 1, 1985
  
• Brigadier General June 1, 1992
  
• Major General May 25, 1995
  
• Lieutenant General September 20, 1996
  
• General October 31, 1997
  

General Patrick K. Gamble

https://www.af.mil/in....asp?bioid=5485

EFFECTIVE DATES OF PROMOTION

Second Lieutenant Dec 13, 1967

First Lieutenant Jun 13, 1969

Captain Dec 13, 1970

Major Jun 1, 1976

Lieutenant Colonel Sep 1, 1980

Colonel Sep 1, 1985

Brigadier General Nov 1, 1991

Major General Sep 28, 1994

Lieutenant General Sep 1, 1996

General Oct 1, 1998

General Moseley also promoted three time under three years.

Edited February 12, 2012 by one

[ThreeHoler]

All appointments over 2-star are political. Nothing to see here.

[Dupe]

The fact that she is a woman had nothing to do with the administration's decision? ...There's also a political reason for every big decision/act those guys make. If you don't agree, then you've really filled yourself up on the kool-aid.

Definately all the position moves at that level are political. I just think the political driver is a hard-line stance on acquisitions ability by the SecDef and all of OSD for these positions vice gender politics. As an example, there are quite a few rated O-6s & O-7s in AFMC who can't go to become Program Executive Officers simply because they don't have the program manager experience to fill those jobs. OSD is unwilling to write waivers for these guys, and they're too far along to officially get that experience now. Rather than claiming "Affirmative action is still alive and well! She got this job in part because of gender status!" we should be asking "Why isn't there someone with operational experience that can do this job? Is it acceptable to have the AFMC commander not be rated?" How long does the "First female Air Force 4-star!" sound bite last for the American public? Two minutes at best? I at least hope that the administration believes that putting the wrong person in such a critical position isn't worth the two minutes of national coverage that this appointment garners. We all know budget battles will continue to rage through at least the end of this decade...AFMC needs a person who can reform the Air Logistics Centers, who can squash the infighting among all the AFRL directorates and DARPA, and who will not reward contractors where their programs are clearly not meeting cost, schedule, and performance criteria.

Bottom line is that I hope she will do a good job in the position and do what's best for the force.

Agreed.

[Guest]

We all know budget battles will continue to rage through at least the end of this decade...AFMC needs a person who can reform the Air Logistics Centers, who can squash the infighting among all the AFRL directorates and DARPA, and who will not reward contractors where their programs are clearly not meeting cost, schedule, and performance criteria.

AFMC needs an executive general manager. Technical expertise is nice but not required. Examples of this truth abound.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Doing what?

LIAISON is a big one. In most cases, the JMD does not specify an AFSC. Some of the requirements bounce around the services, so you know there is no requisite knowledge here.

100% incorrect...as usual.

Sure

[HeyWatchThis]

Acquisitioners (proper term?) have opportunities to deploy because one is my friend. She has deployed for three 180's in seven years and says that's average at her unit. Interesting is that they're so undermanned (reference their bonus) they rear-deploy the people who are medically DQ'd or the like, and think it was in Ohio somewhere...perhaps the nominated General has rear-deployed as short, stateside TDY?

Also from that linked report is this snippet. Acquisitions/Contracting wants a big dog in the fight...

"Furthermore, the Gansler Report identified a lack of general/flag officers in the acquisition workforce. While this was focused toward the Army, the Air Force is actively building the contracting general officer pool with a five-year plan, which manages high-achieving senior officers. Our Contracting Developmental Team is also identifying and vectoring select company grade and field grade officers for deliberate developmental assignments based on the potential of their records to date.

This should result in several officers from the contracting career field being competitive at the general officer selection board."

If she deployed like that, I would bet she is a Contracting Officer, not an Acquisitions officer (2 seperate career fields). The contracting career field is on a 1:1 dwell and has been for years now and will be for the foreseable future. We just sent 2 dudes to Iraq because we are still doing contract close out there.....Acq officers rarely, if ever, deploy, and when they do its to fill positions like XO, etc