NATO apologises for Afghan Koran 'burning'

[uhhello]

There's a lot you don''t know. About that and about what happens at the O-6 and above level.

Word.

Okay, so it seems pretty simple to me as to how to squash this shit. Why doesn't it happen?

[Apollo]

An O-7 rubber-stamps whatever his first shirts put in front of him.

Generality. And if true, what does that say about his leadership?

[uhhello]

It says to me that he trusts his SNCOs because it way too much work to try to second guess what they tell him is important to maintain good order and discipline. Especially if he has legitimate operational issues to worry about.

Like it or not, it is all about time management and allocation of the mental resources available to effectively manage combat operations.

Standard.

[Guest]

Generality. And if true, what does that say about his leadership?

It says to me that he trusts his SNCOs because it way too much work to try to second guess what they tell him is important to maintain good order and discipline. Especially if he has legitimate operational issues to worry about.

Like it or not, it is all about time management and allocation of the mental resources available to effectively manage combat operations.

End the hijack. There are plenty of other threads to discuss this stupid bullshit.

Standard.

Grow up Sarge.

[Butters]

I am headed to Kabul next month and the guy I am replacing says many are carrying their M-9 concealed. Solves the E-9 issue.

[jcj]

It seems like the major national interest of the US was to take down the Taliban government after 9-11. As I recall that was done in a year or two. I suppose it was the honorable thing to do to give the good college try to support the "new" Afghan government, but enough is enough. I don't want another damn cent of my tax money to go to support either Karzai or that shithole of a "country". How 'bout we just get our people the hell out of there right now.

[Guest]

It seems like the major national interest of the US was to take down the Taliban government after 9-11. As I recall that was done in a year or two. I suppose it was the honorable thing to do to give the good college try to support the "new" Afghan government, but enough is enough.

Don't forget Bin Laden. No way we could leave before we killed that fucker.

I don't want another damn cent of my tax money to go to support either Karzai or that shithole of a "country". How 'bout we just get our people the hell out of there right now.

Agreed.

[jcj]

Don't forget Bin Laden. No way we could leave before we killed that ######er.

Good point.

With alot of the details coming out about this, I think you're going to see a huge push from the U.S. citizenry to get the hell out of there. Joe/Jane U.S. citizen may not understand all of the nuances of that part of the world, but they will understand - and I believe will have alot of trouble tolerating - that two U.S. military officers over there to help the Afghani's stand up their own military were murdered execution-style in a "secure" area by an Afghan military officer. That's not too hard to understand.

Given what I think will be a big public uproar over this, the length of this war and the upcoming election, I'd bet the White House will looking for a rapid way out. I hope so.

Edited February 27, 2012 by jcj

[Guest]

Given what I think will be a big public uproar over this, the length of this war and the upcoming election, I'd bet the White House will looking for a rapid way out. I hope so.

He would have my vote if he made that happen before November.

[BolterKing]

He would have my vote if he made that happen before November.

As much as I want to go home, and I agree that we should vacate this dump ASAP, I'm not sure even that could buy my vote for him. Still gotta have standards.

[Booj]

https://www.af.mil/ne...sp?id=123291469

While assigned to a Provincial Reconstruction Team in 2009, Loftis was said to "have gained so much public praise because he was fluent in Pashto...his ability to engage with the Afghans in their own language and earn their trust was a valuable weapon in the counterinsurgency fight," in an article by Staff Sgt. David Flaherty, 22nd Mobile Public Affairs Detachment.

"When the Afghan people see that an American is speaking Pashto, they're more inclined to open up to him, and that's the reason why he's so successful," said Mohammad Ashraf Nasari, the governor of Zabul province, Afghanistan. "He can go among the local population and get their impression of U.S. forces. He can do this better than any other soldier because he speaks their language and knows their culture."

Loftis spoke Pashto proficiently and had limited skills in Dari and Arabic. While deployed in 2009, he was given a Pashto name: Esan, meaning the quality of being generous

God bless his family.

May our special operators find the coward that did this and be generous in their use of deadly force.

[pawnman]

He would have my vote if he made that happen before November.

He might have my vote anyway if Santorum wins the nomination.

Godspeed to the guys offed by their Afghan counterparts. Looks like this hearts and minds thing could be a lost cause.

[nsplayr]

https://www.af.mil/ne...sp?id=123291469

I hadn't open this link earlier and when I got to work I read the email from Gen. Fiel notifying AFSOC of another warrior lost. Can't believe Hurlburt has lost another good dude in such a short period of time.

Lt. Col. Loftis was an instructor at the USAF Special Operations School and taught a week-long class that I took last summer. Former space & missiles nerd, spoke a really difficult language, really knowledgable about about Afghanistan and security studies in general. Good dude, he'll be missed. Left behind a wife and two young kids too...

Those Afghan cock-suckers who killed him deserve to be hunted down, killed, and rot in hell. They can have their piece-of-shit country to themselves as soon as practical if you ask me...declare "victory" and let's chunk up the deuces on that place.

Edited February 27, 2012 by nsplayr

[Guest]

Cheer yourself up by finding a way to giggle about it.

[nsplayr]

Cheer yourself up by finding a way to giggle about it.

I will...so long as the bad guys continue to squirt off of the objective with such gusto.

[PapaJu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=69VIER7nzz8

Will they be enraged over this one, too?

[SocialD]

Just curious, what is the punishment if your caught with a loaded mag in the gun and one in the chamber?

How would they find out? My gun was on me at all times except to sleep and shower. I kept one on the chamber during my whole stay at BAF. Having a gun with an empty chamber if fucking stupid!

[StoleIt]

How would they find out? My gun was on me at all times except to sleep and shower. I kept one on the chamber during my whole stay at BAF. Having a gun with an empty chamber if fucking stupid!

Oh, I agree. An unloaded gun is about as useful as a club. Just curious how bad the consequences would be if caught.

(in unrelated news, I shot sub 1 MOA with my M1A this weekend)

[BlackKnight]

They can have their piece-of-shit country to themselves as soon as practical if you ask me...declare "victory" and let's chunk up the deuces on that place.

2. Fvck em. I've had it with this sh!t. They definitely can have their piece of sh!t country back. I'm going over in a month hopefully for the last time. At least maybe I'll take a few bad guys out before I leave. Either way I don't care. Just stop spending lives and money on these worthless fvcks.

Rant off.

[Guest]

Not one more cent or drop of blood.

[Learjetter]

It's been said: "That's exactly what AQ and the Taliban are, and have been, waiting for. As soon as "we" declare victory (give up) and re-deploy to defend other interests (go home), they win."

Edited February 28, 2012 by Learjetter

[Guest]

They win? What do they win if we leave?

We killed a bunch of them and we killed Bin Laden. Victory.

We leave because it's not worht sticking around anymore. Victory.

We can come back anytime we want and this time at least the runways won't be falling apart, there will be a place to store fuel and the bomb dump will already be built. Victory.

The only way they win is if we keep wasting lives and money for no good reason.

[Learjetter]

Not my argument, but what I've been reading goes something like this: We're being "Vietnam-ed". We've decided our goals there (whatever they are now) are not worth another cent or drop of blood. Therefore, backwards-ass, stone-age, tribal folks, whose goals are contrary to American interests, need not fear the American military, nor even American policy, because ten years after combat starts, we'll leave. Same thing happened to the Rooskies. When we leave, the place will still be a terrorist safe haven. Still be a major poppy producer. Will not have anything resembling basic human rights, nor infrastructure, nor functioning government, or healthcare, or economy, or education system (except in the madras, busy formulating hate against the West in the new generation).

We leave, the Taliban returns, AQ returns, and in five years it'll be like we never even went. Every relationship we cultivated with locals, hell--every local who was seen as even sympathetic to our aims will likely pay a very steep price for their collusion. Perhaps even their families, too. A few years later, we'll have to return to schwack training camps, or outlaw villas, or whatever.

What should be done? Stop and expect the State Dept to shoulder the load from here on out. We kick down the door and lay waste. State is supposed to "nation build".

[jcj]

Not one more cent or drop of blood.

Heard today from a young surgeon I trained who's over there now. Great surgeon, she's from an Army family & is ready to take on anything they throw her way - makes me feel good about training her. If any of our guys end up needing her they'll be in good hands - it just pisses me off because I see absolutely no reason (at this point) we should have anything more to do with that place or those people - we've achieved our national objectives & they obviously don't want our help in achieving theirs.

In May, 2011 it was reported that there were at least 26 murder/attempted murder incidents against ISAF personnel by ANSF or ASG members, resulting in deaths of 58 westerners. Of course there have been more since. This source https://www.michaelyo...mpatibility.pdf outlines it pretty well. Why do we tolerate this?

Not my argument, but what I've been reading goes something like this: We're being "Vietnam-ed". We've decided our goals there (whatever they are now) are not worth another cent or drop of blood. Therefore, backwards-ass, stone-age, tribal folks, whose goals are contrary to American interests, need not fear the American military, nor even American policy, because ten years after combat starts, we'll leave. Same thing happened to the Rooskies. When we leave, the place will still be a terrorist safe haven. Still be a major poppy producer. Will not have anything resembling basic human rights, nor infrastructure, nor functioning government, or healthcare, or economy, or education system (except in the madras, busy formulating hate against the West in the new generation).

We leave, the Taliban returns, AQ returns, and in five years it'll be like we never even went. Every relationship we cultivated with locals, hell--every local who was seen as even sympathetic to our aims will likely pay a very steep price for their collusion. Perhaps even their families, too. A few years later, we'll have to return to schwack training camps, or outlaw villas, or whatever.

What should be done? Stop and expect the State Dept to shoulder the load from here on out. We kick down the door and lay waste. State is supposed to "nation build".

I just don't see how either DOD or State can "nation build" when the the Afghans can't or won't at least try to play on the same team as us? How many more of our people need to be killed by the very people we're supposed to be trying to help before we decide that this is a bad idea? So far it's 58+ & growing.

Edited February 28, 2012 by jcj

[The Texan]

Only thing I can figure as to why we're still there is hidden political agendas to help out buddies, self gain, muslim helping fellow muslims, etc.

Nothing else is logical. If we leave, you can argue that the Taliban will return in force and set up training camps, but to that I will say so what? Give every first graduating class a flyover. They can stay in that hellhole and hate us all they want. A flyover every now and then coupled with all that secret squirrel CIA shit keeps a lid on it.

I'm looking for the advantages of us in that 'country,' and I find none. 9/11 was a wake up call that strengthened some weakness in the defense. I guarantee you if/when we get hit again (in a MAJOR way, exempting the lone oddball) the threat will be traced back to having entered through the Mexican border. Either that or someone here shortly is going to poke Israel in the eye and Israel will open up a can of whoop ass, possibly the nuclear variety. I think the latter is the next thing to occur. Int'l community, including our annointed one, isn't giving them many options.

Edited February 28, 2012 by DocHolliday7283