NATO apologises for Afghan Koran 'burning'

[Bergman]

I think Rick has this one right:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum criticized President Barack Obama's apology for the burning of Qurans in Afghanistan, adding that Afghanistan should apologize to the U.S. for the deaths of four U.S. soldiers during six days of violence sparked by the incident.

"There was nothing deliberately done wrong here," Santorum said Sunday on ABC's "This Week". "This was something that happened as a mistake. Killing Americans in uniform is not a mistake. It was something that deliberate." More than 30 people have been killed in clashes since it emerged Tuesday that copies of the Muslim holy book and other religious materials had been thrown into a fire pit used to burn garbage at Bagram Air Field, a large U.S. base north of Kabul. Protesters angry over Quran burnings by American troops lobbed grenades Sunday at a U.S. base in northern Afghanistan and clashed with police and troops in a day of violence that left seven international troops wounded and two Afghans dead.

"The response needs to be apologized for by (President Hamid) Karzai and the Afghan people for attacking and killing our men and women in uniform and overreacting to this inadvertent mistake," Santorum said on NBC's "Meet the Press". "That is the real crime here, not what our soldiers did."

The president's apology suggests that there is blame and that the U.S. did something wrong "in the sense of doing a deliberate act," Santorum said.

Santorum says that rather than saying he was sorry, Obama should have only acknowledged that burning copies of Islam's holiest book in a trash pit was wrong and taken responsibility for the incident, "but to apologize, I think, lends credibility that somehow or another that it was more than that."

Santorum is the latest Republican to criticize Obama for apologizing for burning the religious materials. Despite apologies from the president and other U.S. officials for what they said was a mistake, their regrets have not quelled the anger of Afghans, who viewed the Quran burnings as an illustration of what they perceive as foreign disrespect for their culture and religion.

[Shortbus]

I don't really give a crap if they apologize or not. It would be meaningless to the wife and two young daughters of the AF Lt Col and the family of the Army Major. That thousands of these people are violently demonstrating because of a perceived "lack of respect" is indicative of gang/thug mentality borne of ignorance and lack of education - the fixes to which are being thwarted at every turn by those we are trying to help. That after their "holy day" on Friday they are motivated to hundreds of acts of violence by thousands of individuals belies this "religion of peace". That our PC society, leaders, and politicians aquiesces and attempts to appease this crap is beyond the pale. The fact I'm sitting 2km from where it happened and still can't put a magazine in my M9, much less a round in the chamber infuriates me... oh, I might have an accidental discharge is the BS rationalization. Sorry, this is a bit of a rant, but I am pissed. In many ways I had a front row seat, and even a degree of participation in yesterday's events. I am extremely angry that two American families have lost a husband, father, and son in this manner.

rant off...for now..

[BQZip01]

I don't really give a crap if they apologize or not. It would be meaningless to the wife and two young daughters of the AF Lt Col and the family of the Army Major. That thousands of these people are violently demonstrating because of a perceived "lack of respect" is indicative of gang/thug mentality borne of ignorance and lack of education - the fixes to which are being thwarted at every turn by those we are trying to help. That after their "holy day" on Friday they are motivated to hundreds of acts of violence by thousands of individuals belies this "religion of peace". That our PC society, leaders, and politicians aquiesces and attempts to appease this crap is beyond the pale. The fact I'm sitting 2km from where it happened and still can't put a magazine in my M9, much less a round in the chamber infuriates me... oh, I might have an accidental discharge is the BS rationalization. Sorry, this is a bit of a rant, but I am pissed. In many ways I had a front row seat, and even a degree of participation in yesterday's events. I am extremely angry that two American families have lost a husband, father, and son in this manner.

Complete shack

[Guest]

Standing by for apology.

Fuck that. Let them have their shit hole back and do not spend another cent over there. We'll come back when they bunch up and we can take them out by the hundreds again.

[StoleIt]

The fact I'm sitting 2km from where it happened and still can't put a magazine in my M9, much less a round in the chamber infuriates me... oh, I might have an accidental discharge is the BS rationalization.

Just curious, what is the punishment if your caught with a loaded mag in the gun and one in the chamber?

[Guest]

Just curious, what is the punishment if your caught with a loaded mag in the gun and one in the chamber?

Life...as in you get to keep living yours.

[uhhello]

Just curious, what is the punishment if your caught with a loaded mag in the gun and one in the chamber?

I was at KAF a just a few weeks ago and my 9 never had a empty mag well. Only time any of us ever got any shit was when someone got a speeding ticket and had to report to the SP's. They made us remove our mags due to us not having FP cards. Nothing ever came of it other than the verbal warning. Walked out and put it right back in. All of my advisor buddies over there have said that they can carry in ANY condition they want.

[Shortbus]

Yeah, it probably wouldn't have made a difference in this specific instance, however most of the Green on Blue/ active shooter incidents that have occurred here could, IMO, have been avoided or significantly mitigated by some or all the good guys having weapons that were actually ready to be employed.. rather than having to draw, get out a magazine, insert magazine, chamber a round, aim, and fire.. while taking fire at close range.. the security situation here is asinine.

I was at KAF a just a few weeks ago and my 9 never had a empty mag well. Only time any of us ever got any shit was when someone got a speeding ticket and had to report to the SP's. They made us remove our mags due to us not having FP cards. Nothing ever came of it other than the verbal warning. Walked out and put it right back in. All of my advisor buddies over there have said that they can carry in ANY condition they want.

yeah, I was down there a few weeks ago.. it's a way different mind set in Kabul, especially at ISAF.. too many generals worried about CYA...

[HeloDude]

Just curious, what is the punishment if your caught with a loaded mag in the gun and one in the chamber?

I can't speak for Afghanistan, but several years ago in Iraq while advising, the guidance was that when you were on the Iraqi side of the base, you could carry one loaded with one in the chamber. To be honest, very few (if any) of the ops guys ever did it. The few advises that did were the support type folks who had little interaction with our Iraqi counterparts. That being said, I would trust the Iraqis I flew and worked with MUCH more than the Afghans that my buddies now advise--shame too as my bet is that 80-90% of those serving in the Afghan military actually enjoy working with their American counterparts.

[Shortbus]

I don't think the M-9 has a magazine disconnect. A single shot is certainly better than a club, and noone would notice if you had one in the chamber. Having your sidearm locked and loaded was a big no-no at KAF in 2010. I'm sure some E-9 deemed it would be far to dangerious to actually be able to defend yourself.

Nope, it sure doesn't and I completely agree irt one shot versus none. I may or may not follow the rules.. The problem is everywhere you go there's a f-ing clearing barrel and the requirement to clear your weapon. And yeah, the justification/excuse for no loaded weapons is the "risk" of accidental/negligent discharges.. Which I think is completely retarded, if anything requiring that everyone clears their weapon every place you go increases the chance of ADs. I generally notch the clearing barrels, the risk I have is if I end up going to chow with the boss and I have a round pop out.. The inmates are running the asylum.

[busdriver]

requiring that everyone clears their weapon every place you go increases the chance of ADs.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine. Not to mention the procedure requires pulling the trigger! Just leave them loaded all the time and people would treat them as if they're loaded instead of being some paper weight they have to haul around.

[Shortbus]

I can't speak for Afghanistan, but several years ago in Iraq while advising, the guidance was that when you were on the Iraqi side of the base, you could carry one loaded with one in the chamber. To be honest, very few (if any) of the ops guys ever did it. The few advises that did were the support type folks who had little interaction with our Iraqi counterparts. That being said, I would trust the Iraqis I flew and worked with MUCH more than the Afghans that my buddies now advise--shame too as my bet is that 80-90% of those serving in the Afghan military actually enjoy working with their American counterparts.

You're right, a lot of them are not the bad guys. The problem is you just never know if the dude sitting next to you is a good guy or a bad f##### just waiting for his opportunity.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Shortbus

[Royal]

###### that. Let them have their shit hole back and do not spend another cent over there. We'll come back when they bunch up and we can take them out by the hundreds again.

That's the kind of apology I'm talking about; them saying, "Sorry, we kind of forced your hand on that one."

[uhhello]

I'm sure some E-9 deemed it would be far to dangerious to actually be able to defend yourself.

Sorry, have to call bullshit on this one. Its you guys (O's) that have allowed the "E-9"s to become as powerful as you think they are. It's your side of the rank chain that sets these assanine policies. The mighty E-9's just enforce them.

[Guest Grind]

Kill 'em all, and let God sort them out

[busdriver]

The clearing barrel/unloaded weapons insanity is coming from the Army.

[pawnman]

Sorry, have to call bullshit on this one. Its you guys (O's) that have allowed the "E-9"s to become as powerful as you think they are. It's your side of the rank chain that sets these assanine policies. The mighty E-9's just enforce them.

Our side, yes...but not, by and large, the people on this board. I've seen confrontations between O-3 and O-4s and E-9s...generally, it ends with whoever can pull the most rank on their side of the chain, which is usually the E-9 whining to his O-7 boss.

[uhhello]

Our side, yes...but not, by and large, the people on this board. I've seen confrontations between O-3 and O-4s and E-9s...generally, it ends with whoever can pull the most rank on their side of the chain, which is usually the E-9 whining to his O-7 boss.

Agree. Your side has the best chance against it and changing it though. Sorry, back on topic.

[TheGuardGuy]

https://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/26/10510299-eight-us-soldiers-wounded-in-afghan-nato-base-attack

This shit makes me absolutely crazy... as we continue to apologize

[Guest]

Sorry, have to call bullshit on this one. Its you guys (O's) that have allowed the "E-9"s to become as powerful as you think they are. It's your side of the rank chain that sets these assanine policies. The mighty E-9's just enforce them.

Please.

[uhhello]

Please.

Please all you want. I've seen just as many stupid policy making 0-5's and above as I've seen E-9's doing the same. Only problem is one has actual power and the other doesn't.

[Guest]

Please all you want. I've seen just as many stupid policy making 0-5's and above as I've seen E-9's doing the same. Only problem is one has actual power and the other doesn't.

LOL

What planet are you living on?

[uhhello]

LOL

What planet are you living on?

Can't believe you of all people just used LOL. So who signs the policy letters?

[pawnman]

Can't believe you of all people just used LOL. So who signs the policy letters?

An O-7 rubber-stamps whatever his first shirts put in front of him.

[Guest]

Can't believe you of all people just used LOL.

There's a lot you don''t know. About that and about what happens at the O-6 and above level.

An O-7 rubber-stamps whatever his first shirts put in front of him.

Word.