NATO apologises for Afghan Koran 'burning'

[DirkDiggler]

Shortbus, on 11 March 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:

A war?

Best post of the week. I honestly think its a tribute to professionalism and training of our military that shit like this isn't happening on a weekly basis. We have a force thats been deployed to that shithole for over 10 years now. You can't constantly send young guys/gals out to a country for 13+ months where they get shot at, watch their brothers in arms get killed/wounded while fighting a shadowy enemy that looks just like every other jawa in the village, live in godawful conditions, potentially deal with a neverending stream of qweep, are told no porn, no sex, no alcohol, no stress relief etc, and not expect that things like this won't happen sometimes.

I have no idea what the background of this paticular situation is, I'm sure we'll find out in the coming days as the media blows it up around the world. I could be totally off base. But the fact remains that Afghanistan is war, always has been a war regardless of the whatever the popular title of the month may be, and in war really ugly things happen and people die in f##ked up ways. I'm sure that the individual/individuals responsible will be prosecuted under the UCMJ while everybody else soldiers on. Its unfortuanate that some innocents may have died and that our troops will most likely bear the brunt of the fallout. The bigger question is how much longer we're going to continue to try to "divide by zero" in a place where, at least to me, it seems like we're continuing to loose our direction and our people for what I consider to be questionable returns at best.

Edited March 11, 2012 by DirkDiggler

[epsilon]

this shit sandwich just got a whole lot bigger

[Shortbus]

Karzai is already in the news calling it "unforgivable".

An yet, somehow, killing murdering two of ours elicits hardly any response... ######'em all, time to go.

[WABoom]

I personally believe it's been time to go for a while. No one really knows what the end game is anymore. Hell most of us on here only continue to do what we do, because we are helping the bubbas on the ground. I cannot even start to imagine the multiple deployments, seeing buddy's killed, and all the craziness these poor bastards have to endure. Get folks home now, this is a situation that is only going to get worse.

Edited March 11, 2012 by WABoom

[Slow-Smooth-Fast]

This will likely be the event that causes the civilians to embrace us and toss off their backwards ways.

Edited March 11, 2012 by sunshine

[Guest]

This will likely be the event that causes the civilians to embrace us and toss off their backwards ways.

FIFY

[Fuzz]

I've read several of the articles which state the killings happened in two different villages and in one house alone 11 people were killed, this guy must be Rambo. Otherwise this is way too fishy for me to believe with the present details.

[bfargin]

Yeah and our dumb ass in chief is already apologizing for it without knowing all of the facts from the guys on the ground. Regardless, we need to bring all of you back home from that crap hole!! As has been written on here several times, that hole is not worth another sacrifice (injury or death)!

[Guest]

Rule #1 in combat: The first report is always wrong.

[nsplayr]

Unbelievable. It's like we're writing a text book on how NOT to win hearts and minds. ....Step 1) Urinate on the dead and video tape it, Step 2) Set fire to their religious books, Step 3) Randomly massacre their civilian children.

True that, it's not a good look for our efforts at extracting some kind, any kind of "victory" from that place.

Edited March 12, 2012 by nsplayr

[SocialD]

[Homestar]

A war?

I don't know that I would call it that anymore. More like a nation-building exercise with guns.

[Wolf424]

More details coming out

(Reuters) - U.S. officials warned on Monday of possible reprisal attacks after 16 Afghan villagers, mostly children and women, were killed in a likely "rogue" shooting by a U.S. soldier that weakens the West's tenuous grip on a decade-old war.

Washington has rushed to distance the shootings, blamed on a lone U.S. soldier, from the efforts of the 90,000-strong U.S. force in Afghanistan, but the rampage in southern Kandahar province is certain to inflame anti-Western anger once again.

It comes less than three weeks after U.S. troops inadvertently burned copies of the Koran, the Muslim holy book, at the main NATO base in Afghanistan, sparking widespread protests in which 30 people were killed.

"The U.S. Embassy in Kabul alerts U.S. citizens in Afghanistan that as a result of a tragic shooting incident in Kandahar province involving a U.S. service member, there is a risk of anti-American feelings and protests in coming days, especially in the eastern and southern provinces," the embassy said in an emergency statement on its website.

Kandahar is the birthplace of the Taliban, toppled by U.S.-backed forces in late 2001. Southern and eastern provinces have seen some of the fiercest fighting of the war, increasingly unpopular among Americans and their European allies.

Early on Monday, the embassy said on its Twitter feed restrictions had been placed on the movements of all embassy personnel in the south.

A sharp increase in attacks on U.S. troops by Afghan forces followed the Koran burning. Sunday's incident in Kandahar was one of the worst of its kind, witnesses describing it as a "night-time massacre" that killed nine children and three women.

Villagers in three houses were attacked and many civilians were wounded, a spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said.

Deeply saddened, U.S. President Barack Obama called Afghan counterpart Hamid Karzai, promising to establish the facts quickly and "to hold fully accountable anyone responsible.

"This incident is tragic and shocking and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan," Obama said in a statement.

However, such incidents fuel anti-Western sentiment among Afghans and are quickly exploited by the insurgents. The Afghan Taliban said it would take revenge.

WIDESPREAD ANGER

The burning of copies of Koran at Bagram air base touched off widespread anger among Afghan officials, security forces and civilians alike. It also shows the challenges that remain as foreign forces prepare to withdraw combat troops and hand security responsibility to Afghans by the end of 2014.

Sunday's attack may also harden a growing consensus in Washington about what can be accomplished in Afghanistan even after a troop surge meant to turn the war around.

The bill for the war has already exceeded $500 billion and more than 1,900 U.S. troops have been killed, with the total number of foreign troops killed approaching 3,000.

"These killings only serve to reinforce the mindset that the whole war is broken and that there's little we can do about it beyond trying to cut our losses and leave," said Joshua Foust, a security expert with the American Security Project.

Karzai, whose relationship with his Western backers is fraught at the best of times, seethed. Civilian casualties caused by U.S. and other Western forces have long been a major cause of friction between Washington and Kabul.

He condemned the rampage as "intentional murders" and demanded an explanation. Karzai's office released a statement quoting a villager as saying "American soldiers woke my family up and shot them in the face".

There were conflicting accounts of how many U.S. soldiers were involved, with witness accounts saying there were several.

Officials from the U.S. Embassy, ISAF and from Washington said it appeared there was only one. An ISAF spokesman said the lone U.S. soldier "walked back to the base and turned himself in to U.S. forces this morning", adding there had been no military operations in the area.

The soldier in custody was described by one U.S. official in Washington as a staff sergeant who was married with three children. The sergeant had served three tours in Iraq but was on his first deployment in Afghanistan, the official said.

Neighbors and relatives of the dead said they saw a group of U.S. soldiers arrive at their village in Panjwai district, about 35 km from the provincial capital Kandahar City, at about 2 a.m. They said the soldiers entered homes and opened fire.

However, Afghan Minister of Border and Tribal Affairs Asadullah Khalid said a U.S. soldier burst into three homes near his base in the middle of the night, killing a total of 16 people, including 11 people in the first house.

Villager Haji Samad said his children and grandchildren were among 11 relatives killed.

"They (Americans) poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them," a weeping Samad told Reuters at the scene, with blood splattered on the walls of his home.

Neighbours said they had awoken to crackling gunfire from American soldiers, who they described as laughing and drunk.

"Their bodies were riddled with bullets," said Agha Lala, who visited one of the homes where the killings took place.

A senior U.S. defence official in Washington rejected such accounts. "Based on the preliminary information we have this account is flatly wrong," the official said. "We believe one U.S. service member acted alone, not a group of U.S. soldiers."

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta also called Karzai to offer his condolences. "I condemn such violence and am shocked and saddened that a U.S. service member is alleged to be involved, clearly acting outside his chain of command," Panetta said.

[Whitty]

And in 10 years, the kids that weren't offed in these villages will be looking for how to get their revenge. Hearts and minds.

[Finger Four]

And in 10 years, the kids that weren't offed in these villages will be looking for how to get their revenge.

I thought that was the DoD (aka defense industry) long term strategy. I think it's called the "annuity business model".

[FallingOsh]

What the hell is going on over there?

mustache march. if our mustaches were in regs, this would never have happened.

[fire4effect]

In 'highly unusual' move, Marines asked to disarm before Leon Panetta speech.

https://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/14/10684063-in-highly-unusual-move-marines-asked-to-disarm-before-leon-panetta-speech

Sorry Leon but it's a war zone. If you're afraid of getting hurt then stay home and save the taxpayers all the money spent for you Afghan/World tour.

On the other hand the lengthy judical process for the lunatic SSG will mean it will be years before justice is served and Locals will just get more and more pissed. In WW2 he would have been tied to a post about a month from now and shot.

[Prozac]

In 'highly unusual' move, Marines asked to disarm before Leon Panetta speech.

https://worldnews.msn...-panetta-speech

Sorry Leon but it's a war zone. If you're afraid of getting hurt then stay home and save the taxpayers all the money spent for you Afghan/World tour.

Funny, If I were the secdef, nothing would make me feel more secure in a war zone than a shit ton of heavily armed Marines between me and the insurgents.

[hindsight2020]

Funny, If I were the secdef, nothing would make me feel more secure in a war zone than a shit ton of heavily armed Marines between me and the insurgents.

The presumption is a very ugly and pointed one, that is that senior leadership does not trust the temperance of their hunting dogs, therefore prefers to muzzle them. Interesting times, falls in the face of 'semper fi' don't ya think?...I for one appreciate the silent recognition said gesture highlights; that is, that is that there is no such thing as warrior monks, even in our American "civilized" "professional" military.

[Day Man]

shenanigans?

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/03/ap-afghanistan-leon-panetta-secdef-plane-truck-crashes-on-runway-031412/

[Karl Hungus]

In 'highly unusual' move, Marines asked to disarm before Leon Panetta speech.

https://worldnews.msn...-panetta-speech

Sorry Leon but it's a war zone. If you're afraid of getting hurt then stay home and save the taxpayers all the money spent for you Afghan/World tour.

On the other hand the lengthy judical process for the lunatic SSG will mean it will be years before justice is served and Locals will just get more and more pissed. In WW2 he would have been tied to a post about a month from now and shot.

It will be interesting to see where and how he will be tried. If a foreign service member went on a shooting rampage in, say, Dallas and killed a bunch of civilian women and children, what would the US do?

[Beaver]

It will be interesting to see where and how he will be tried. If a foreign service member went on a shooting rampage in, say, Dallas and killed a bunch of civilian women and children, what would the US do?

With any luck a good 'Merican would exercise his 2d Amendment rights and kill him on the spot.

[NEflyer]

https://www.reuters.c...E82E0G420120315

Roadside bomb kills 13 civilians in south Afghanistan

Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:33am EDT

(Reuters) - A roadside bomb killed at least 13 Afghan civilians, including women and children, and wounded two on Thursday in the south of the country, provincial officials said.

Security is a major concern as Afghan forces increasingly take over responsibility from NATO-led soldiers in the lead up to the withdrawal of most foreign combat troops by the end of 2014.

"The mine was newly planted by the Taliban and went off when a civilian car went over it," said Farid Hayel, a spokesman for Uruzgan province police chief.

Four women and nine children were killed, he said.

More than 3,000 civilians were killed in the war in Afghanistan in 2011, the fifth year in a row the number has risen, according to the United Nations.

Bombs planted on roads, and increasingly deadly suicide attacks that targeted civilians, killed more people than any other type of attack in 2011 as Taliban militants battled the Western-backed government after a decade of war.

Where's the outrage?

[fire4effect]

https://www.reuters.c...E82E0G420120315 Where's the outrage?

Ask myself that all the time

[Spur38]

It will be interesting to see where and how he will be tried. If a foreign service member went on a shooting rampage in, say, Dallas and killed a bunch of civilian women and children, what would the US do?

If an Army Major went on a shooting rampage at Ft. Hood...what would the US do? So far not a damn thing and POTUS has never said anything about it being murder.....WTF?