When is a Masters degree needed for a Guard Officer?

[guim]

I am currently attending grad school while I wait to go back to UPT. I did some searching but could not find much. At what rank does a Guard guy need a Masters degree? I heard it is not needed to get Major like AD, but I was trying to figure out if there was a rank that the Guard typically wants one.

[Guest]

Rank is a joke in the Guard. You are competing against no one. You just need to be patient and complete PME and you will be promoted O-1 thru O-5 at an amazingly rapid rate and O-6 thru O-7 when it is "your turn."

No shit.

[Termy]

I was in the Guard for nine years and never heard the word "Masters" once; I've only been in the Reserves for two and hear about Masters degrees almost daily. As Rainman would say, no shit.

[Guest]

in-residence PME

No shit?!

I have seen Guard guys do that for days/pay or because they were hyper ambitious or because they wished they were still on AD or because it gave them an ego stroke. Never to make rank or keep their jobs.

So much for the greener grass.

The days of a Sq full of line-flying 0-5s is numbered.

Which is totally appropriate.

O-4 is all the higher most traditional Guardsmen would ever need to be. They left AD because of the queep and they just want to fly, or so they say.

On day one after they left AD (or during their interview for UPT) every one of them said "I don't care about making rank. I'm happy to retire as a Major. I just want to keep serving my country by flying without all the bullshit. that's what attracts me to the Guard!"

[matmacwc]

You speak for AGR's. I've hear of the rank reductions, but not the ranks you speak of.

Making rank in the Guard has always been a piece of cake, no Master's required. However, all the full-timers are nervous as hell due the shots across the bow from AD. As the budget axe falls, there will be lots of competition for a decreasing number of positions. Lately, I've seen O-1 through O-4 padding thier resumes with bullshit degrees, in-residence PME, and all the other AD queep.

All that is just to stay on the manning document. Rank reductions for Os in the Guard are also coming, the E's have already been hit. The days of a Sq full of line-flying 0-5s is numbered.

If you are in Grad school, might as well finish. Couldn't hurt.

You speak for AGR's. I've heard of the rank reductions, but not the ranks you speak of.

Edited March 3, 2012 by matmacwc

[herkbum]

All flying positions in my unit are Major positions. I am willing to bet that is pretty much true for most Guard units. So you will make Major unless you totally screw the pooch. SOS is supposed to be required, but I know a few that made it without. A few made O-5 without ACSC.

[TheGuardGuy]

All ANG Officers are billeted to Major, in other words if you have a commission there is room for you on the manning document to make major. Above that it is dependent on how many O-5 slots there are on the said manning document, and that is where it gets competitive to some degree. There are ways to get guys O-5 for a few years that are on their way out, and it will vary on your performance in the unit, as well as your status as a traditional or AGR/Technician. The pickle folks get in is making O-4 too quickly, then being faced with an up or out situation, which is going to be way down the road for you. It never hurts to read books with no pictures and get learned - it all depends on what you want to do with your ANG career. As for PME, if you want orders, go- if you make better money on the civ side, do as you wish. In residence may or may not sway in your favor down the road, times are a'changin'.

On day one after they left AD (or during their interview for UPT) every one of them said "I don't care about making rank. I'm happy to retire as a Major. I just want to keep serving my country by flying without all the bullshit. that's what attracts me to the Guard!"

Speak for yourself.

Edited March 3, 2012 by TheGuardGuy

[Combat Platypus]

My reserve wing has been briefed for the past several years that if you want to make O-5 you must have PME done. If you want more than O-5 you'll need the masters of basket weaving and probably joint/staff/whatever else the flavor of the month is.

[Cornholio5]

On day one after they left AD (or during their interview for UPT) every one of them said "I don't care about making rank. I'm happy to retire as a Major. I just want to keep serving my country by flying without all the bullshit. that's what attracts me to the Guard!

God I wish it were like that on AD. It is more of a struggle every day serving my 10 year active-duty sentence dealing with all the queep. I wished I had listened to my guard buddy a long time ago.

It is a shame to hear that some reserve units are starting to sway over to the AD mentality. I hope to God it never gets as bad though.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Cornholio5

[Marco]

FWIW, in my unit there are more enlisted guys with graduate degrees than officers. Masters to make rank? Hardly. :)

[Guest]

My reserve wing has been briefed for the past several years that if you want to make O-5 you must have PME done. If you want more than O-5 you'll need the masters of basket weaving and probably joint/staff/whatever else the flavor of the month is.

Reserves are definitely different than the ANG. Much closer to AD. You have to be willing to move if you want to become an O-6 in the Reserves, too.

Above that it is dependent on how many O-5 slots there are on the said manning document, and that is where it gets competitive to some degree. There are ways to get guys O-5 for a few years that are on their way out, and it will vary on your performance in the unit, as well as your status as a traditional or AGR/Technician.

As I said, wait for "your turn." I was not talking about AGR, that's a completely different story. If the dud asking was AGR he would know the answer to his own question.

The pickle folks get in is making O-4 too quickly, then being faced with an up or out situation

Huh? Is this new? What are you talking about?

Speak for yourself.

I am.

Are you telling me I am wrong and all the guys leaving AD to become traditional guardsmen are actually doing so because they are focused on making rank and are looking for a place where they can deal with even more bullshit than they did on active duty?

Seriously, that is what your are saying?

Get the fuck out of here.

[Chapter29]

You have to be willing to move if you want to become an O-6 in the Reserves, too.

Your decision to move will come early too. The ARC requires SQ/DO's to move to a different unit, just like active duty.

Nepotism

[B52Herc]

How about we just try and answer your question . . . a good number of the replies so far are a bit dated in perspective. For promotion in the ANG as a pilot (at this time, and at most ANG bases), you will promote via standard timelines to O2 & O3 without regard to an advanced degree or completion of PME. For promotion to O4 you will have to complete SOS for a ROPMA promotion, and almost all units require it for the "unit vacancy" promotion. At least at this time, there still isn't much emphasis on the advanced degree to O4.

Now, if you decide that you want to do more than "just fly", then there are (limited) O5 and O6 positions at the air wings similar to what you would find at any AD air wing. To make O5, it is not very likely that the unit (or state) will approve a unit vacancy promotion unless you appear viable for O6. That means you'll need to be on track with your PME, and if you don't have an advanced degree you should have some pretty compelling credentials otherwise. If you don't get promoted to O5 via unit vacancy, then you would meet a ROPMA board (and you would want an advance degree if you are going to board - though you might get promoted without).

For O6 there has to be a position vacancy and you have to have completed SDE, and you have to be selected by the state and approved by ANG. I'm not aware of a hard rule on an advanced degree, but you would be in a very small minority of officers if you did not have one at this point in your career.

There are certainly differences between the ANG and AD with regards to promotion and what one needs to do in their career to be viable for promotion. That's a longer discussion and one replete with opinions. The best source for the ANG intel will be the unit to which you are assigned - to the extent that the unit is keeping up with national trends.

[Guest]

How about we just try and answer your question . . . a good number of the replies so far are a bit dated in perspective.

Really?

Let's just point him to the source documents then.

https://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/angi36-2504.pdf

https://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/angi36-2504.pdf

For promotion in the ANG as a pilot (at this time, and at most ANG bases), you will promote via standard timelines to O2 & O3 without regard to an advanced degree or completion of PME. For promotion to O4 you will have to complete SOS for a ROPMA promotion, and almost all units require it for the "unit vacancy" promotion. At least at this time, there still isn't much emphasis on the advanced degree to O4.

Or, in other words, do PME and automatic to O-4.

[Cornholio5]

Kind of off subject guys, but I am AD and want nothing more than to get out of this craziness called AD and join all my buddies in the guard/reserve. If I get passed over twice for O-4 while on AD, 1-will hiring boards look down on me because of that, and 2-will I still be able to be promoted to O-4 if I do get hired?

I am starting my BS online master's this week by the way to check that box.

[B52Herc]

Really?

Let's just point him to the source documents then.

https://www.e-publish...angi36-2504.pdf

https://www.e-publish...angi36-2504.pdf

Or, in other words, do PME and automatic to O-4.

Yes, really, and you are almost correct in observing that PME will likely avail a unit vacancy to O4, and if so you will likely wear that rank earlier than some of your AD (same commissioning date) peers. But there are other factors that will affect unit vacancy promotion: lacking maturity as aircrew or just being an asshole are probably the two most effective ways to ensure that you would proceed to ROPMA instead of getting the unit vacancy promotion. Like I said before, there are differences between the AD and ANG and there are issues/problems with both systems as there is some merit with both systems.

Thank you for posting the ANGI, and I'm sure guim appreciates it, but I'm sure you've the experience and perspective to know that AFIs and ANGIs are just a part of the picture.

Edited March 4, 2012 by B52Herc

[Guest]

You're quibbling.

[hindsight2020]

Kind of off subject guys, but I am AD and want nothing more than to get out of this craziness called AD and join all my buddies in the guard/reserve. If I get passed over twice for O-4 while on AD, 1-will hiring boards look down on me because of that, and 2-will I still be able to be promoted to O-4 if I do get hired?

I am starting my BS online master's this week by the way to check that box.

The answer to your questions is 1) NO and 2) YES. Plenty of 1990s passed over Captains now LTCs in the Reserves. Hell one is even an O-7 (not a compliment to him btw). No one will look down on ya, units with shitty locations in the ARC are absorbing these RIF people left and right, my unit is one of those. They'll all make major, what made them not make major on AD is already good enough for them to make major in the ARC.

Beyond O-4 is where it gets testy, but dude honestly, I was a Reserve baby who went in day one because I didn't and I don't care if I ever make O-5, so Rainman is right about the motivations of us citizen airmen. And when this shit gets even sillier and espousing the above becomes blasphemy in the ARC too, I'll just fucking quit and go teach TP stalls to chinese immigrants. At least I'll be happy with my day to day rather than moping like a bitch trying to rationalize spending 50 hours a week minding the shop of ice cream and qweep not related to hacking the mission one iota, oh and watch the neighbor take care of the wife in every way, just because I want to make 20. To each their own. Fuck the online masters. Or get it if it strikes your fancy and you think you can make use of it in the civilian market. Just don't be like Cougar, don't hold on too tight [to the AD idyosyncracies..]. Good luck!

[Cornholio5]

The answer to your questions is 1) NO and 2) YES. Plenty of 1990s passed over Captains now LTCs in the Reserves. Hell one is even an O-7 (not a compliment to him btw). No one will look down on ya, units with shitty locations in the ARC are absorbing these RIF people left and right, my unit is one of those. They'll all make major, what made them not make major on AD is already good enough for them to make major in the ARC.

Beyond O-4 is where it gets testy, but dude honestly, I was a Reserve baby who went in day one because I didn't and I don't care if I ever make O-5, so Rainman is right about the motivations of us citizen airmen. And when this shit gets even sillier and espousing the above that becomes blasphemy in the ARC too, I'll just ######ing quit and go teach TP stalls to chinese immigrants. At least I'll be happy with my day to day rather than moping like a bitch and watch the neighbor take care of the wife in every way, just because I want to make 20. To each their own. ###### the online masters. Or get it if it strikes your fancy and you think you can make use of it in the civilian market. Just don't be like Cougar, don't hold on too tight [to the AD idyosyncracies..]. Good luck!

You couldn't have said it any better! Thanks hindsight! The AD likes to scare us into thinking that they are the only thing going right now for pilots---well I don't not even care if I make less, I will be happier out of this madness! Thanks again for the insight.

[SocialD]

Is the Guard going to pay for our masters?

Kind of off subject guys, but I am AD and want nothing more than to get out of this craziness called AD and join all my buddies in the guard/reserve. If I get passed over twice for O-4 while on AD, 1-will hiring boards look down on me because of that, and 2-will I still be able to be promoted to O-4 if I do get hired?

I met a guy that asked to NOT be promoted to major, was passed over twice, then somehow was given a bonus to get out! He in-processed the reserves the day after he left AD and was promoted to major a month or so later.

[Guest]

Beyond O-4 is where it gets testy, but dude honestly, I was a Reserve baby who went in day one because I didn't and I don't care if I ever make O-5, so Rainman is right about the motivations of us citizen airmen.

Actually I wasn't talking about Guard/Reserve babies.

I was talking about guys who leave AD to go to the ARC saying they just want to fly for 20 and don''t care about the rank. Truth is, they actually will care once they do the math on their drill pay and retirement and they will knock out ACSC so they can get promoted, which is the responsible thing to do. And most units make it possible for a guy to retire as an O-5. It's not a promise but the ARC is pretty good about that.

[Karl Hungus]

Actually I wasn't talking about Guard/Reserve babies.

I was talking about guys who leave AD to go to the ARC saying they just want to fly for 20 and don''t care about the rank. Truth is, they actually will care once they do the math on their drill pay and retirement and they will knock out ACSC so they can get promoted, which is the responsible thing to do. And most units make it possible for a guy to retire as an O-5. It's not a promise but the ARC is pretty good about that.

True. But those folks will also do ACSC by correspondence, and not move their family down to shithole Maxwell for a year of Kool-Aid drinking. And if they have to get a masters, they have the ability to get a meaningful one from a real school. Most of the AD folks I know do ACSC by correspondence before they pin on major in order to be competitive for ACSC in residence, and the only realistic way to get a masters is to take online courses from some less-than-stellar institutions.

Those are some pretty big differences in a lot of people's eyes.

[Guest]

So you are agreeing with me then, right?

[Karl Hungus]

So you are agreeing with me then, right?

Absolutely, as well as pointing out to other readers of the "When is a Masters degree needed for Guard officer?" thread that, while the ARC may require PME and a masters for promotion, the lack of practice bleeding and a bit more control over your degree choices is a big difference from AD.

[Guest]

I think they all know the whole grass is greener siren song already.