capt4fans Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 I'm going to like all her posts and hope she's a 1. We all know that a good "support" troop can make a shitty deployment into a mediocre one. With all her deployments, maybe I'll see her downrange! Good luck on that. You'll have to find her when the office is actually open.
HercDude Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 I'm going to like all her posts and hope she's a 1. We all know that a good "support" troop can make a shitty deployment into a mediocre one. With all her deployments, maybe I'll see her downrange! You can check out her facebook page if you want to find out. Princess OPSEC here has a semi-public profile. Surprising for someone who so often puts their life on the line downrange.
B52gator Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Does everyone get callsigns now? This reminds me of the "everybody wins" concept that is being hammered into young children. Not everybody wins, not everybody gets to be a fighter pilot (or a shit-hot navigator), everybody doesn't get a flight suit/call sign/leather jacket/etc. The world needs ditch diggers...dig your ditch to the best of your abilities, salute smartly, and move on. I think the main problem is that support personnel forget the definition of "support". They get all bent out of shape and whine when they're told that they are not at all even remotely the tip of the spear. While I am sure many operators in the AF genuinely appreciate your support and everything that is accomplished behind the scenes (I know I did), most find it annoying when they act like their job is more important than any one else's. As far as I'm concerned, those who are legitimately in harms way, deployed or otherwise, are the tip of the spear. Working at a desk at a deployed location and diving for cover at errantly fired RPGs does not put you in that category. 1
Buddy Spike Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 You can check out her facebook page if you want to find out. Princess OPSEC here has a semi-public profile. Surprising for someone who so often puts their life on the line downrange.
B52gator Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Do you think she stumbled over here by googling herself?
Buddy Spike Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Do you think she stumbled over here by googling herself? 1
17D_guy Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Does everyone get callsigns now? Really depends on the leadership. Sometimes they meet at the club in their polo shirts w/ embroidered call signs. I'll let that sink in... Also, European Regional CGO Exec Officer and not married. Plenty of time to Exec (whatever the hell that means) the regional CGO after those 12 hr finance shifts! I rest your case my honor.
KState_Poke22 Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 These people need understand that what they do is support. They're invaluable, and they should take pride in that but they don't need to be acting like they're better than the people they support. I understand that my job as a United States Air Force pilot is to help the guys on the ground accomplish their objective and to help every one of them come home safe at the end of their mission. I'm proud as hell of doing that but I don't go around acting like I'm better than those guys on the ground (because I'm not) and that I'm in more danger or sacrifice more than the guys with boots on the ground getting shot at to hack the mission (because I'm not and I don't). This is the attitude of everyone I fly with too. For some reason they get it yet many of these shoes do not. They need to take pride in what they do and not act like they're the be all end all to the war effort!
nsplayr Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 You can check out her facebook page if you want to find out. Princess OPSEC here has a semi-public profile. Surprising for someone who so often puts their life on the line downrange. Wow, poor form on her part. Allowed me to discover she was recently stationed with someone I knew from my Det (also a female finance officer). Maybe I should pass her the word for her pal to check herself before she wrecks herself...that may be futile at this point...
Hueypilot Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 We also asked what they thought the mission of the C-130s were and most replied: deliver the mail and food. I guess they failed to realize that there was still a war going on just north of them. I was at Salem in 2006...went to eat chow after a long day flying the C-130 up north and a NCO sat across from us and he told us he's glad he's at a base that has Herks to deliver supplies. Our FE asked him "you think those airplanes are here to supply Salem?" And he did a "uh, yeah...why. What are they here for?" He had a different perspective that day after realizing we existed to supply the bases in Iraq, and he was there to support the airplanes taking off north, not the other way around. I also remember getting food at the grab-n-go at the Deid one day while we stopped through. It was about 115-120F outside, and our flight suits were soaked through from sweat. That was in 2005 when 18 hour FDPs were the norm. We were all taken back when we walked into the place to fill up the cooler...inside this room (which was cold since two walk-in coolers were on either side) there were several airmen inputting what we took from the cooler and doing whatever queep they needed to do...and above them was a banner that said "Our Morale Suffers So Yours Doesn't". Hmmm...work 8-12 hours in a cooler typing inventory, or spend 18 hours flying in a loud E-model Herk in 115 degree heat...huh. Seems like they definitely were taking one for the team. And for our finance warrior, at Dyess aircrew deployed 120 on then 120 off for years on end. Most people left there with 4-5 four month deployments in a three year tour. They took a "break" from deploying so they could do career enhancement things like SOS or instructor pilot school...but again, they were still TDY and not at home. I was a common joke to claim Dyess was your TDY location and down range was your real home. I spent 12 years on active duty. Two years were spent on casual status and training, so really only 10 years were spent in the real AF. Despite spending 5 of those years as a schoolhouse instructor with AETC and a fairly cush job flying Learjets for 3 years (only one deployment that tour) I still managed to deploy for a total of 30 months. And that's deployments...add in more for various TDYs I've been on...and I'd argue that's LOW for most Herk pilots. I'd argue that most people here don't hate non-rated officers. They just can't stand the disconnect that exists between rated and non-rated. Such as over hearing non-rated people bitch that the aircrew at deployed base X only work every other day, not realizing that we work from show time to engine shut down 16-18 hours in a hot, loud airplane...by the time post flight paperwork is done, you've worked 20+ hours and your are wasted. Plus we were flying around the clock...show on Monday at 1600 for an 18 hour mission, then on Wednesday you show at 1800 for another 18 hour mission...Friday is a 2100 show for yet another 16-18 hour flight...get the picture? Then we hear the kids who work 0730-1600 in an air conditioned trailer/building bitch about how we have it easy... I have more examples...we all do...of this disconnect. I'll save the story about my SOS job brief assignment where several non-rated types critiqued me saying I was too technical, claiming that most people in the AF might not know about this "C-130" that I speak of...but as others have said, you can further this disconnect or you can be part of a solution and learn about the core missions of our service. And no, finance is not a core mission... 2
dream big Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 I am pretty sure I am intimately familiar with DTS, more so than half these finance "troops." How do they not know what a C-130 is, especially considering it "brings them their mail" while they are slaving away, deployed, working in air conditioned offices from 9-3 with a one hour lunch break?
spaceman Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 We were all taken back when we walked into the place to fill up the cooler...inside this room (which was cold since two walk-in coolers were on either side) there were several airmen inputting what we took from the cooler and doing whatever queep they needed to do...and above them was a banner that said "Our Morale Suffers So Yours Doesn't". Wow that is one douchetastically passive aggressive banner they had there!
Danny Noonin Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 We were all taken back when we walked into the place to fill up the cooler...inside this room (which was cold since two walk-in coolers were on either side) there were several airmen inputting what we took from the cooler and doing whatever queep they needed to do...and above them was a banner that said "Our Morale Suffers So Yours Doesn't". Hmmm...work 8-12 hours in a cooler typing inventory, or spend 18 hours flying in a loud E-model Herk in 115 degree heat...huh. Seems like they definitely were taking one for the team. I'll take the contrarian point of view here. Is your personal morale tied to air conditioning? Let me ask it this way...would you trade jobs with those guys because they worked shorter hours in air conditioning at an "easy" job? Serious question. Would you expect that your morale would be higher or lower than it is now if you worked "in a cooler typing inventory" instead of in an airplane? Fellas, some jobs just suck regardless of temperature. Having morale in some of these jobs would be challenging to put it mildly, especially when so far removed from the tip of the spear. Operators don't get their morale from comfort. We get it from being able to see the j-o-b get done from up close. We get to see the actual fruits of our labor most of the time. These kids do not. They are far from home for long periods of time as well. Maybe not as much as you. But they get less pay, zero glory and don't get to see any results from their work. So yes, I would say their morale is probably pretty shitty...all so you could have a nice cooler full of cold drinks in the middle of a war. Whenever you want to shit on someone else and how easy their job is compared to yours, ask yourself this: would YOU want to do that job? If the answer is "no" then just be thankful you don't have to...and that someone else is willing to do it. 2
frog Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) I'd argue that most people here don't hate non-rated officers. They just can't stand the disconnect that exists between rated and non-rated. Such as over hearing non-rated people bitch that the aircrew at deployed base X only work every other day, not realizing that we work from show time to engine shut down 16-18 hours in a hot, loud airplane...by the time post flight paperwork is done, you've worked 20+ hours and your are wasted. Plus we were flying around the clock...show on Monday at 1600 for an 18 hour mission, then on Wednesday you show at 1800 for another 18 hour mission...Friday is a 2100 show for yet another 16-18 hour flight...get the picture? Then we hear the kids who work 0730-1600 in an air conditioned trailer/building bitch about how we have it easy... The disconnect isn't that large. There are lots of people in the ops and support world that go to work everyday, work hard, put in long hours, don't expect recognition, and then get up and do it again the next day. The problem is that the Air Force doesn't encourage or reward workman-like behavior. We only hear about the "special" people in both worlds. I agree there is a disconnect on what level of support is required, but that is a resource problem that isn't going to go away in the near future, and is only remotely connected to the work ethic of the majority of support folks. Edited October 9, 2012 by frog
Guest Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Operators don't get their morale from comfort. We get it from being able to see the j-o-b get done from up close. We get to see the actual fruits of our labor most of the time. Wait a second...I thought if you guys could see the fruits of your labor you fucked up. Edited October 9, 2012 by Rainman A-10
Danny Noonin Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 Wait a second...I thought if you guys could see the fruits of your labor you fucked up. Well...the radar scope is less than 2 feet away. I'm sure that counts. Doesn't it? 1
Danger41 Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 Wait a second...I thought if you guys could see the fruits of your labor you fucked up. Or when the bitchin' music vid comes out!
BolterKing Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Wait a second...I thought if you guys could see the fruits of your labor you ######ed up. Eagle/Raptor guys haven't seen the fruit of anything during this entire war.
ThreeHoler Posted October 10, 2012 Author Posted October 10, 2012 Eagle/Raptor guys haven't seen the fruit of anything during this entire war. Unless you're talking about a "fruit basket." Similar to "the goat."
guineapigfury Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 I heard they made a whole movie about "The Abraham Lincoln".
Hueypilot Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 The disconnect isn't that large. There are lots of people in the ops and support world that go to work everyday, work hard, put in long hours, don't expect recognition, and then get up and do it again the next day. I'm not referring to how hard anyone works or suggesting aircrew as a whole work harder, etc. I'm talking about things that are different from our world and most of the office-worker crowd. For example, when I was deployed to A-Stan last, I was working flight safety. We had two FSOs (Flight Safety Officers) that are typically rated, but due to a recent rule change, my counterpart was an aerospace physiology dude. Good guy, hard worker...but when it was his turn to do the night shift he could barely function after 10pm...and when he had the opportunity to go on a Herk mission and observe, he got put on a mission that left around noon and they finally got back at O-dark something in the morning...his words to me went something like this: "I knew you all had crazy hours but sitting on that flight deck all day and night was just nuts...I'm wore out...how the hell do you do that day in and day out?" Having that experience helped him better understand why aircrew get frustrated with "closed for training" mentalities and "why don't you just come by during normal duty hours" responses when you are stuck flying nights for a few weeks on end. So it's not really how hard anyone works that I'm pointing too, it's just the cultural differences...that many office dwellers don't get why aircrew have such crazy schedules, etc. 1
Hueypilot Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 I'll take the contrarian point of view here. Is your personal morale tied to air conditioning? Let me ask it this way...would you trade jobs with those guys because they worked shorter hours in air conditioning You're missing the point. No I don't want to work at the grab-n-go...my morale was fine then and it's fine now. My point is, I heard plenty of bitching about how aircrew has it easy, got more time off hiding behind crew rest rules, etc. A lot of the people doing the complaining were working (relatively) shorter shifts in (relatively) comfortable conditions. Additionally, many of them aren't aware of what aircrew deal with and are more willing to believe that most bag-wearers are truly the zipper suited sun god prima donnas they've heard about. I've heard it from a number of people since I've been in the AF...more than once I've overheard and even debated those that feel non-flyers bust their ass so we can loaf around and be cool and not do a damn thing but drive our jets through the atmosphere. The cooler story meant to convey the disconnect with some people in our service...it's probably a good thing that Mx troops didn't go in there much, considering they spent their 12 hours on the 120 degree ramp...
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