Safety of Flight/Crew Rest

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

6 hours ago, jrizzell said:

If your Sq is dictating this for TDY, then you get to suck it up. Unless you feel like fighting with leadership.


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Similar idea, but opposite direction: we are going to an exercise, and the host unit is trying to stiff arm is into double occupancy. Our squadron leadership is pushing back.

I don't know the ins and the outs of these kind of things, I just turn on the green light. 

[jcollins]

See AFMAN 34-135 Table 3.1

Edited February 17, 2023 by jcollins

[Boomer6]

51 minutes ago, Insubordinate & Churlish said:

Similar idea, but opposite direction: we are going to an exercise, and the host unit is trying to stiff arm is into double occupancy. Our squadron leadership is pushing back.

I don't know the ins and the outs of these kind of things, I just turn on the green light. 

Dude, if you’re exercise is in PACAF then welcome to the priority AOR. Where they can justify paying you $13/day at Eielson because you’re on CED orders. If you don’t want to share a room on TDY then you can just stay home. 

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Dude, if you’re exercise is in PACAF then welcome to the priority AOR. Where they can justify paying you $13/day at Eielson because you’re on CED orders. If you don’t want to share a room on TDY then you can just stay home. 

Yeah if you're going to an exercise you are "deployed" and they can use contingency lodging. 

Don't forget--The exercise isn't just for you. It's for the whole force structure chain. There are literally lodging plans that need tested to house people in high density locations like Korea. You're actually lucky you're getting hotel rooms. In Korea they stick everyone in a giant ass California tent with a bunch of bunks in it. 

[Boomer6]

3 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Yeah if you're going to an exercise you are "deployed" and they can use contingency lodging. 

Don't forget--The exercise isn't just for you. It's for the whole force structure chain. There are literally lodging plans that need tested to house people in high density locations like Korea. You're actually lucky you're getting hotel rooms. In Korea they stick everyone in a giant ass California tent with a bunch of bunks in it. 

I’m well aware the point of RF-A. Also, calling the gold rush inn a hotel is a huge stretch. Nothing more embarrassing then having other countries show up for an exercise and putting them in that dumpster fire. The good news is that’s not an option anymore because they’re housing ppl in the gold rush inn because no one realized they didn’t have enough housing to standup several new F35 sq.
 

Try justifying $13/day to a 19yr old A1C that is working mids and has no food options because the DFAC hours won’t support the exercise hours. Crew chiefs are literally saving up money prior to the exercise so they’ll be able to buy food.

[FLEA]

2 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

I’m well aware the point of RF-A. Also, calling the gold rush inn a hotel is a huge stretch. Nothing more embarrassing then having other countries show up for an exercise and putting them in that dumpster fire. The good news is that’s not an option anymore because they’re housing ppl in the gold rush inn because no one realized they didn’t have enough housing to standup several new F35 sq.
 

Try justifying $13/day to a 19yr old A1C that is working mids and has no food options because the DFAC hours won’t support the exercise hours. Crew chiefs are literally saving up money prior to the exercise so they’ll be able to buy food.

I agree it's bullshit. The base has obligations too. There should be an exercise opord that outlines it. If they are having people on mids there should be an obligation to open the DFAC at midnight. They may have contractor DFAC in which they push back. In this case they need to request a services package to standup a DFAC or authorize partial rate. It's been a long time since I've done this but those are the leads that come to mind to go on. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by FLEA

[FLEA]

This is a huge problem with exercise planning btw. It's a huge disproportion of Ops people who are focused on getting as many fighter squadrons there as possible and they completely forget the deployment itself is a huge part of the exercise. That means the logistics actually required to move a fighter squadron to include services, support, etc... So it never gets realized until last minute. 

[FLEA]

Missed meal letters is something else that comes to mind. 

[arg]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Missed meal letters is something else that comes to mind. 

Which may or may not be signed

[Buenos Diaz]

Boomer6,

     I’ve had to fight with finance and A staff regarding per diem at deployed locations where Airmen were billeted in contracted hotels off base but incorrectly authorized GMR.   A dining facility is considered not available when government lodging on a US installation is not available.  Therefore, locality meal rate is paid.  It doesn’t matter if you eat a dining facility or not, even if they don’t charge you.  If they put you off base, you get full per diem.  Straight out of the JTR.  Linked and pasted at the bottom of the post below the cut line.  Appropriate items underlined.

   Story time.  Long ago, I was tasked to stand up a Det at an overseas airport that didn’t have lodging on post.  So about 100 of my closest friends and I were billeted at the Radisson Blue.  Our orders were correctly written with full M&IE.  After a couple weeks of working alongside transient MX deployed to a different unit, I found out they were only authorized GMR even though they were billeted off base in the same hotel as we were. About $100 per day difference.  Almost $20k per maintainer for the length of their deployment  They were all going broke eating off post, where a hamburger and a coke cost $35, or they had to take the hour long bus ride to base to eat at the DFAC.  To top it off, they only provided transportation to the base at noon and midnight.  So even on their day off, they had to spend all day on base.  I felt terrible for these guys and spoke to their CC, gave himthe reference and was assured he would fix it.  His fix was to file an IG complaint against me and get aircrew banned from the DFAC.  After a protracted fight with finance,  A4 and the IG, common sense prevailed and the maintainers were paid what they were owed.  This had been going on for years, hundreds of airmen were incorrectly paid GMR when they were owed thousands more.  To my knowledge, finance only corrected the vouchers and orders for the airmen deployed with me but subsequent deployments found the maintainers billeted at a nearby base with adequate facilities and then transported to the airport for duty each shift.

Buenos

————————————————————————————————————-

https://media.defense.gov/2022/Jan/04/2002917147/-1/-1/0/JTR.PDF#page55

JTR pg 2-34

D. Government Dining Facilities. A Government dining facility is available only when the Government quarters or ILP facility on the U.S. installation to which the Service member is assigned TDY are adequate and available. Government facilities should be used to the maximum extent possible.

1. Use of the Government dining facility must be directed in the travel authorization. The  authorization must state when a Service member is to receive the PMR or GMR. Otherwise, the locality meal rate is paid. Schoolhouse training or other excepted circumstance may impact meal rate payable.
2. A dining facility is considered not available:
a. When Government lodging on the U.S installation is not available.
b. On travel days.
c. When an AO determines that:
(1) The use of the Government dining facility adversely affects mission
(2) There is excessive distance between the Government dining facility and places of
(3) Transportation is not reasonably available between the Government dining facility and places of duty or lodging.
(4) Duty hours and Government dining facility operating hours are incompatible.
3. When a travel authorization directs the use of a Government dining facility for TDY travel and it is not available, a traveler must provide a statement of non-availability explaining which meals were not available and why, to receive reimbursement. The reason for non-availability must be acceptable to and approved by the AO. Once approved, the travel authorization must be modified to document the change in meal rate.
4. An organization may not treat TDY members as permanent party by providing Government meals in a dining facility at no charge. A TDY member pays for meals in the Government dining facility except in the following circumstances: Essential Unit Mess, field duty, sea duty, members traveling together with no reimbursement or Joint Task Force Operations. See the DoD Financial Management Regulation, Vol. 7A, Chapter 25.

[Boomer6]

That’s great info. Luckily projos in my community have used that reg to fight for our ppl and it’s been mostly successful. The fact that we keep fighting the same battle every TDY is shameful though. It’d be nice to somehow pin posts like Bueno’s so the next bro trying to fight finance can find it easily.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Boomer6
words are hard

[dream big]

9 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Dude, if you’re exercise is in PACAF then welcome to the priority AOR. Where they can justify paying you $13/day at Eielson because you’re on CED orders. If you don’t want to share a room on TDY then you can just stay home. 

Ah Red Flag Alaska. Every MC / PROJO’s nightmare…at least the flying is beautiful. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by dream big