Pilot Life

[Turbo99]

Where is this "grandfather clause" written? Karl Hungus speaks the truth: with the AF, NOTHING is guaranteed. Take it from us who've been around awhile, or learn on your own the hard way. In either case, the cold hard truth remains.

pcola, you beat me to it. Erilejr, if you take anything away from this thread, this should be it. They make the rules and they are free to change them at any time and for any reason. They seriously couldn't care less about you and your retirement or whatever regs or contracts you wave at them.

The flying may or may not do it for you, it depends on what you want and what you end up with. Air Force life often leaves much to be desired.

Ironically, however, the Air Force flying community is populated with some of the best bros you will ever meet, I've never quite been able to figure out why, but it's true. I'd have to say that this part alone might actually make up for the rest of the BS. Whatever you decide, do right by your bros and they'll do right by you, the rest will work itself out. As one person I know likes to put it, just stick to the laws of "dudesmanship." Best of luck.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Turbo99

[CuryOsity]

I do agree that nothing is promised and they can certainly do as they please since they have all of the control. That thought was based on history. Like people who joined before September 8th, 1980 use "Final Pay" retirement plan and those who joined from Sep. 8th, 1980 to Aug. 1st, 1986 use "High 3" because those were the plans in effect when they joined. So I figured if I join under certain circumstances, they will hold. But I'm sure there are people who can attest otherwise. I just know I'm going to give the AF the better years of my life and I'd hope they would do rite by me in the end. Anyway, I don't want to go off on a tangent. Back to my life crisis lol, to be or not to be (or try to be) a pilot. Again, thanks to all for giving me your advice.

[pcola]

I do agree that nothing is promised and they can certainly do as they please since they have all of the control. That thought was based on history. Like people who joined before September 8th, 1980 use "Final Pay" retirement plan and those who joined from Sep. 8th, 1980 to Aug. 1st, 1986 use "High 3" because those were the plans in effect when they joined. So I figured if I join under certain circumstances, they will hold. But I'm sure there are people who can attest otherwise. I just know I'm going to give the AF the better years of my life and I'd hope they would do rite by me in the end. Anyway, I don't want to go off on a tangent. Back to my life crisis lol, to be or not to be (or try to be) a pilot. Again, thanks to all for giving me your advice.

Copy. And we all hope you're right. Just too many of us have been burned or have seen our buds get burnt to trust in big blue any more.

[TrainerModel]

yo ho, yo ho, a pilot's life for me.

[Liftr]

1. Better

2. Yes

24 years of AD, Guard, and Civilian experience speakng.

Queep sucks.

Flying beats working for a living. (I did that too, for a little while)

[guineapigfury]

I just know I'm going to give the AF the better years of my life and I'd hope they would do rite by me in the end.

Define "they". Your fellow bros, the crusty old sergeants in bags, nad the young airmen who have their shit so much more together than you did when you were 20 ... THEY will not let you down. Congress and their star-shouldered bootlicks ... not so much. Fence in, and more importantly fence out.

[sputnik]

I hope that on one of these "discovery" flights I discover that I either hate flying or love flying so this decision will be easier to make.

Don't get overly excited about your discovery flights. By all means do them but keep in mind, flying a 172 around the pattern has about as much to do with employing an A-10/C-17/whatever as, well, it sounds like. You may fly once, hork your lungs out and have a miserable time. Doesn't mean you wouldn't grow to like it once you got past airsickness. You may love solo flying a bug smasher day-VFR but loathe flying heavy metal at night, crappy weather on the other side of the planet with a crew.

I work with several guys whose total flight experience is a few rides in a bug smasher. From that they have extrapolated a whole lot of theories of military flight that have zero basis in reality. A little knowledge ain't always a good thing.

I also happen to work with a lot of developmental engineers. Have you talked with any? The life/career of an AF engineer has absolutely nothing in common with the lifestyle of any form of military flying ('some' crossover in test world). Lemme give you two quick but major differences, you will work more with civilians than military and your AFSC is non-deployable. Also, hope you like Dayton. They work on really cool stuff but are not necessarily doing cutting edge research. Realize that engineers are part of the acquistions world, you're buying stuff contractors built.

This is not an attack on the engineer career field, guys I know are all good dudes and enjoy what they do. But you owe it to yourself to talk to some. The negatives you've read here have nothing to do with that world. Well...ok, they still have to wear blues and do CBTs but they only way they'll see Al Udied is on tv.

As for retirement, it's probably a safe bet you're right. My guess--as worthless as the rest--is that they'll keep the retirement but cut COLA. They can say you still get the retirement even as it becomes worthless. Regardless, don't sell your soul for the retirement, stay in because you like it.

[Guest]

Now THAT'S interesting...

No shit.

[CuryOsity]

Don't get overly excited about your discovery flights. By all means do them but keep in mind, flying a 172 around the pattern has about as much to do with employing an A-10/C-17/whatever as, well, it sounds like. You may fly once, hork your lungs out and have a miserable time. Doesn't mean you wouldn't grow to like it once you got past airsickness. You may love solo flying a bug smasher day-VFR but loathe flying heavy metal at night, crappy weather on the other side of the planet with a crew.

I work with several guys whose total flight experience is a few rides in a bug smasher. From that they have extrapolated a whole lot of theories of military flight that have zero basis in reality. A little knowledge ain't always a good thing.

I also happen to work with a lot of developmental engineers. Have you talked with any? The life/career of an AF engineer has absolutely nothing in common with the lifestyle of any form of military flying ('some' crossover in test world). Lemme give you two quick but major differences, you will work more with civilians than military and your AFSC is non-deployable. Also, hope you like Dayton. They work on really cool stuff but are not necessarily doing cutting edge research. Realize that engineers are part of the acquistions world, you're buying stuff contractors built.

This is not an attack on the engineer career field, guys I know are all good dudes and enjoy what they do. But you owe it to yourself to talk to some. The negatives you've read here have nothing to do with that world. Well...ok, they still have to wear blues and do CBTs but they only way they'll see Al Udied is on tv.

As for retirement, it's probably a safe bet you're right. My guess--as worthless as the rest--is that they'll keep the retirement but cut COLA. They can say you still get the retirement even as it becomes worthless. Regardless, don't sell your soul for the retirement, stay in because you like it.

Great advice and things to keep in mind. The fact that Developmental Engineers are limited to stateside bases, restricted from deployment, and only get to oversee the cool stuff rather than implement it are all factors that make me question if I want to take that route. However, on the plus side, their family life seems to be very stable and having a background/experience in engineering/project management would help me in my post AF career. I don't think my engineering degree will be of much use when I'm 40 or so with no experience because I was a pilot. I've only talked to developmental engineers on other forums so it has been limited. I've been to Al Udeid and Iraq in the past and I didn't mind either of them. It was a good experience but I don't know if I would feel that way after living in you all's high ops tempo for a few years. The more I research and the more I learn, I am beginning to lean towards taking my shot at a pilot slot. I feel like being an Air Force Pilot is one of those things that I would never let go if I were given the opportunity and didn't take it.

[awalkertx]

No shit.

Some pretty serious negativity on his part... there's a greater than zero chance that he'd be miserable in whatever field he took up rated or otherwise.

[scoobs]

Does being on the road\deployed mean less queep? Seems like most are happy with their decision.

[guineapigfury]

Does being on the road\deployed mean less queep? Seems like most are happy with their decision.

Definitely an abundance of queep and chickenshit in deployed environments. Awards packages for this and that, having to take a base picture in the middle of a war zone, guys getting pulled off the bus at the end of 12+ hour days to stand in a formation to fluff some dipshit's ego, laser focus on uniform wear. No shit, we had people roaming the base at night looking for people without reflective belts. We had the manpower for this, but not to do something about the rockets hitting the base weekly. That said, being on the road is awesome can be awesome. I remember being TDY to Alaska, not shaving for weeks, getting hammered at 0730 and then taking pictures with a moose.

[Bergman]

Definitely an abundance of queep and chickenshit in deployed environments. Awards packages for this and that, having to take a base picture in the middle of a war zone, guys getting pulled off the bus at the end of 12+ hour days to stand in a formation to fluff some dipshit's ego, laser focus on uniform wear. No shit, we had people roaming the base at night looking for people without reflective belts. We had the manpower for this, but not to do something about the rockets hitting the base weekly. That said, being on the road is awesome can be awesome. I remember being TDY to Alaska, not shaving for weeks, getting hammered at 0730 and then taking pictures with a moose.

Dude, WTF? You just used the term "laser focus" of your own free will?

Back on topic...

1) Best job anyone could realistically hope to have (exceptions such as porn star, rock star, trust fund baby, lottery winner, etc apply) IMHO. I could write volumes about all the awesome stuff I have been able, and continue, to do (and I'm "only" a tanker guy, mind you) that it would boggle your mind.

2) Notice I said "best JOB" above. It's still a job. Like any job, there are less desirable aspects to military flying but in my opinion they are vastly outweighed by the good aspects. Try to dodge as much BS as possible, minimize queep, focus on the mission, and never forget...you are living the "good old days" right now.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Bergman
To respond to original poster

[bfargin]

... getting hammered at 0730 and then taking pictures with a moose.

Dude, while that's impressive that you stump trained a moose that quickly, the pictures might come back to haunt you.

[guineapigfury]

Dude, while that's impressive that you stump trained a moose that quickly, the pictures might come back to haunt you.

I thought it was sarah palin, I swear.

[CuryOsity]

and never forget...you are living the "good old days" right now.

Well said. Speaking of you "only" being a tanker guy, I would probably end up in a heavy any ways. My seated height is one inch too short. From what I've read it is waiverable but will blacklist me from flying a fighter. I also may be in the minority that I prefer a larger aircraft anyway. If only I were a trust fund baby...

[guineapigfury]

Well said. Speaking of you "only" being a tanker guy, I would probably end up in a heavy any ways. My seated height is one inch too short. From what I've read it is waiverable but will blacklist me from flying a fighter. I also may be in the minority that I prefer a larger aircraft anyway. If only I were a trust fund baby...

Almost, everyone shows up to UPT wanting fighters, that changes about halfway through T-6s. Some of it is talking to the heavies pilots and thinking "Hey, that sounds kind of cool", and some of it is realigning your desires with what you expect to get at track select. I was the only guy in my class who started wanting heavies, I definitely wasn't alone come track select. I loved flying in the tanker, and you'd be ok in there as a short guy. I swear we had one instructor at Altus who's ethnicity was "leprechaun".

[CuryOsity]

I swear we had one instructor at Altus who's ethnicity was "leprechaun".

That is hilarious.

[Goblin]

I swear we had one instructor at Altus who's ethnicity was "leprechaun".

The Gatekeeper?

[Wolf424]

I would probably end up in a heavy any ways.

Big girls need love too

[ThreeHoler]

Excellent use of the crazy-hot scale.

[CuryOsity]

Let me put it this way, flying in the AD Air Force is like dating a super crazy, yet hot girl. The hotter she is, the crazier, but she's so hot that you're willing to put up with it. But then there's a point where she's so crazy that no amount of hotness will ever make up for it. All I want to do at this point is get out before I wake up in a bathtub full of ice with a horrible scar next to where my kidney used to be.

I'd much rather go find an average looking yet mentally stable girl (civilian job) and then have a friends with benefits setup with a mistress on the side (guard/reserve).

That's a great analogy. I'm not too sure that I posses the tolerance for a psycho though.

So I went on a discovery flight yesterday. It was exactly what I feared, not terrible but not amazing either. It did not make me want to be a pilot any more or less. I am going to go on another one with a different company next week. After the first one I had a mild headache but I figure that's just because my body is not used to the movements. One thing I did like though, the view from the sky.

[Guest]

So I went on a discovery flight yesterday. It was exactly what I feared, not terrible but not amazing either. It did not make me want to be a pilot any more or less.

I don't know what a discovery flight is supposed to do for you.

Ask yourself this:

"Do I want to wear a machine around the sky and kill people with it?"

If the answer is "hell yes" then you are good to go. If the answer is "not really" then you might want to reconsider.

[guineapigfury]

I don't know what a discovery flight is supposed to do for you.

Ask yourself this:

"Do I want to wear a machine around the sky and kill people with it?"

If the answer is "hell yes" then you are good to go. If the answer is "not really" then you might want to reconsider.

I think the point of the "discovery flight" is to find out if there any dealbreakers now at the cost of about $100, rather than going through years of preparation only to find out you have vertigo/incurable airsickness. If you are hurling all over the inside of a 172 after 1 time through the pattern, probably time to find a plan B no matter how much you "want to wear a machine around the sky and kill people with it."

[D-ron]

I think the point of the "discovery flight" is to find out if there any dealbreakers now at the cost of about $100, rather than going through years of preparation only to find out you have vertigo/incurable airsickness. If you are hurling all over the inside of a 172 after 1 time through the pattern, probably time to find a plan B no matter how much you "want to wear a machine around the sky and kill people with it."

I highly disagree with that. I was airsick on every flight in IFS and the first 3/4 of T-6s in UPT. Eventually I got over it; almost everybody will get over it with enough flying, but it sucks in the process. Don't let airsickness get in the way if you really want to "wear a machine around the sky and kill people with it." That said, if flight (even in a 172) just seems so-so to you, then being a pilot probably isn't worth a ten year commitment.