Depth Perception DQ and Waiver info

[tgonzo29]

Thought I would add my experience to this topic in hopes it could help somebody.

I failed depth perception (uncorrected) at MEPS on letter B.  It was extremely alarming and decided to go see my civilian doctor who told me difference of refractive error within eyes can negatively affect your depth perception.  I let the doctor dilate my eyes and he was able to write me a prescription for corrective lens, which are ALLOWED to be used to take the Depth Perception test during your flight physical.

I took the DP test again during my flight physical and was able to pass through letter F (perfect).  If you ran into this issue, don't stress but make an appointment with your civilian doctor to get a glasses prescription. 

[lph1235]

Hello all. I am a sophomore in high school hoping to fly in the ANG or Reserves after college. My eyes aren’t great but I think they are just good enough to make it through. Assuming my prescription doesnt fall below a -8.00 before I get Lasik or PRK done in a few years (at a -5.00 right now), the only potential issue I see is with my history of Strabismus surgery. I was diagnosed with strabismus very young, and I had two surgeries that were successful in correcting it. I have had no issues with depth perception ever since. Am I correct in my thinking that if I was able to pass the DP test, my history of having surgery would be a non-issue?  Or, in the event that I wasn’t able to pass the test for whatever reason, would it be an issue trying to get a waiver with that on my record? Thank you.

 

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[stuckindayton]

18 hours ago, lph1235 said:

Hello all. I am a sophomore in high school hoping to fly in the ANG or Reserves after college. My eyes aren’t great but I think they are just good enough to make it through. Assuming my prescription doesnt fall below a -8.00 before I get Lasik or PRK done in a few years (at a -5.00 right now), the only potential issue I see is with my history of Strabismus surgery. I was diagnosed with strabismus very young, and I had two surgeries that were successful in correcting it. I have had no issues with depth perception ever since. Am I correct in my thinking that if I was able to pass the DP test, my history of having surgery would be a non-issue?  Or, in the event that I wasn’t able to pass the test for whatever reason, would it be an issue trying to get a waiver with that on my record? Thank you.

 

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Waivers after strabismus surgery are possible, but your eye alignment has to be essentially perfect.  If there is any residual mis-alignment, then a waiver won't happen.  There is at least one person on this board who was in your shoes.  He may be interested in giving you some feedback.  Sorry, I cannot identify him (privacy rules).  

[lph1235]

2 hours ago, stuckindayton said:

Waivers after strabismus surgery are possible, but your eye alignment has to be essentially perfect.  If there is any residual mis-alignment, then a waiver won't happen.  There is at least one person on this board who was in your shoes.  He may be interested in giving you some feedback.  Sorry, I cannot identify him (privacy rules).  

Thank you for the response. Would I only need a waiver if I wasn’t able to pass the test? Or would I need one regardless because of the surgery?

[BEEPBEEPIMINAJEEP]

lph1235,

First of all, good on you for being as proactive as you are at such a young age. That will pay major dividends in your future. 

 

I believe having the surgery on your record does require a waiver, but is given so long as you meet certain eye alignment criteria. You can read up on these things in the Air Force Waiver Guide 2017. My advice to you is to get an updated evaluation done by an ophthalmologist who specializes in this surgery (mostly pediatric doctors) and make them give you every test they can, see what they say and compare that to the standards. 

 

I had posted this a while back in another thread, but it's fairly relevant to what you are looking for here. 

On 2/3/2017 at 4:48 PM, BEEPBEEPIMINAJEEP said:

Hello everyone, 

I recently got back from my trip to Wright-Patterson and I could not be happier with my experience there. Not everything was smooth sailing for me, as far as my pre-existing eye condition was concerned, but the folks there went incredibly far out of their way to ensure I had every opportunity to pass their tests. For that, I am extremely grateful for their care in what they do and ultimately, allowing me to pursue my dream. 

A little bit about my experience: I had an eye muscle disorder that I discovered a few years ago after preemptively visiting an optometrist to make sure everything with my eyes were kosher. Upon finding out what I had, I was crushed. Over the course of the next year, I found a specialist, explained to him what my intentions were as far as pursuing this career and ended up having surgery to correct the problem. The surgery went very well, but that still did little to unease the unsettling feeling I had about my chances.  I read numerous stories about others who had similar conditions; I read the AFI's, waiverability guide and medical publications; I even messaged a few professionals on these very forums to gain as much insight as possible. From all of these sources, my confidence on passing was extremely low. 

Nevertheless, I continued to interview all over the country in pursuit of my passion, even with that overwhelming sense of uncertainty. The last few years have been the most trying test of my endurance, mentally. I spent thousands of dollars travelling for interviews, faced numerous rejections, put off career advancement in my fall back career, all for just the chance at a shot for my dream job. I knew, at least for me, that if I had not done this, it would plague me for the rest of my life knowing I had given up. 

I had engulfed myself with everything there was to know about my condition and how it would be measured/tested. I ascertained that my biggest hurdle was going to be depth perception, as is for most people, even with the best of eyes. I am prior enlisted and have had a history of failing the depth perception years back at MEPS. I spent months researching techniques people use to train their eyes to pass the test to include purchasing the Magic Eye book, as many of you have recommended. Even so, I was still not confident come judgement day that I was indeed going to pass. 

Once arriving on day one, you are not given an exact itinerary on what order you will be accomplishing all the tests, so I sat there stewing in the inevitable encounter with my kryptonite. It ended up coming relatively soon on the first day and it was not pleasant. I had measured 20/20 uncorrected, but come time to do the depth perception, I could not seem to make it work for me. This revelation that my hopes and dreams just came to an end began to sink in. Nevertheless, they had me do a full workup with the optometrist there to figure out what my underlying problem was. 

We went over many more eye tests and had very long, comprehensive talks about what they were seeing, what my chances/options were, what their role is as far as having a standardized approach in measuring/testing applicants. All of these things really did a great job at putting me at ease. It was the kind and length of talks from a doctor that no civilian doctor, at least in my experience, has taken out of their day to explain exactly what is going on. They made it abundantly clear that they will do everything in their power to ensure you have every opportunity to demonstrate that if you CAN pass, they will pass you. 

They ended up prescribing me glasses to retake the exam about mid-way through day two to see if it was simply an acuity problem not being able to see depth perception. I wore the glasses for a few minutes, retook the test, and failed again. This, again, made my stomach turn upside down. I was then given the advice to wear the glasses for a little while longer to have my eyes adjust some more. 

Day 3: Nearly everyone I was there with had already been given the all clear, having a great time touring the museum there (which is a must). I knew it was my make or break day. I wore the glasses the entire night before and also woke up early in the morning on day three to walk around outside to get my eyes readjusted. I had found out that walking around outside, particularly looking about 3 feet in front of me when walking, seemed to have the most of an effect on my eyes. 

First thing in the morning, we began to do some more evaluations with some easier to see depth perception tests that they had there. These tests were rated at much higher arcs than the standard needed to pass, but were instrumental in helping me with the technique that best worked for me to bring them out. Personally, I found out that opening my eyes up wide, as opposed to squinting (which I was doing before), and vaguely starring at the entire block of circles was working for me. 

Miraculously enough, I eventually got to the point to where I could legitimately see all the way through line D. (This was quite the emotional roller-coaster for me at this point). I was incredibly excited at this point that the future that I thought I had lost was slowly coming back to me. However, I was not quite out of the woods. Even though I had gotten through line D, it was a struggle, to say the least. The doctors had long talks with me about their standards and liability they assume by making such decisions and it was in mine, and their best interest, to ensure that this was not a one-time thing. They needed to be certain when you leave there, that you are going to be able to pass it every year after that. 

They had me do a few more depth perception tests (and passed) and more workups with multiple doctors and they came to the agreement that I met their standards. I cannot describe to you what the feeling of years of doubt being immediately lifted off of my shoulders felt like. 

I am so extremely grateful for the doctors and techs there at Wright-Patterson for taking so much time to work with me through all of this!

Thank you so much!!

To those out there still in the hunt or awaiting your turn at MFS/FC1, never give up! Be as prepared as possible. Make appointments on your own so there are no surprises. If you find a surprise, get a second opinion. Research every option. Above all, remain calm and be as polite as possible. I know the former is easier said than done, but it can truly help. 

Good luck to everyone! 

Lastly, keep a positive attitude! I know it may feel like a shitty hand dealt to you that was out of your control, but you can take some of that control back by being proactive (as you already are) in learning what needs to be done to obtain the best job in the world. 

 

Good luck!!

[lph1235]

1 hour ago, BEEPBEEPIMINAJEEP said:

lph1235,

First of all, good on you for being as proactive as you are at such a young age. That will pay major dividends in your future. 

 

I believe having the surgery on your record does require a waiver, but is given so long as you meet certain eye alignment criteria. You can read up on these things in the Air Force Waiver Guide 2017. My advice to you is to get an updated evaluation done by an ophthalmologist who specializes in this surgery (mostly pediatric doctors) and make them give you every test they can, see what they say and compare that to the standards. 

 

I had posted this a while back in another thread, but it's fairly relevant to what you are looking for here. 

Lastly, keep a positive attitude! I know it may feel like a shitty hand dealt to you that was out of your control, but you can take some of that control back by being proactive (as you already are) in learning what needs to be done to obtain the best job in the world. 

 

Good luck!!

Thank you so much. I’m going to dive into the regs and set up an appointment with my ophthalmologist (who performed my surgery) to get his opinion. Luckily, I believe I’ve had no issues with the condition since the surgery awhile back, so that is one thing going for me. I also know a former Marine Flight Surgeon, so I’m going to get his opinion as well. Your post was very inspiring.... I hope I can make a similar post to that one on this forum one day. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by lph1235

[BEEPBEEPIMINAJEEP]

Before jumping into an eval with the doc, I suggest you "get smart" on everything they will be looking for knowing you have a history of the condition. E.g., phorias, stereopsis, microsuppression, double vision, etc. It would be wise of you to know the medical jargon associated with things directly or indirectly affected by your condition so you can ask the right questions. Those things can be found throughout that waiver guide I mentioned above. 

[lph1235]

7 hours ago, BEEPBEEPIMINAJEEP said:

Before jumping into an eval with the doc, I suggest you "get smart" on everything they will be looking for knowing you have a history of the condition. E.g., phorias, stereopsis, microsuppression, double vision, etc. It would be wise of you to know the medical jargon associated with things directly or indirectly affected by your condition so you can ask the right questions. Those things can be found throughout that waiver guide I mentioned above. 

I’ll be sure to have a look at it. Thank you.

[rti35]

Anyone ever run into the following situation: 

1. Passed depth perception at MEPS

2. Selected, Passed FC1 depth perception and all vision tests

3. Renewed MEPS physical (2 year lapse) and failed depth perception (line B)

Failed it at MEPS today which I've never done before because the guy administering it rushed me through it because they were packed. Doing it at 6AM as the first test of the day also didn't help. 

Will this present a problem in the future? I'm headed to OTS in a few weeks and already have a current FC1. Recruiter says it won't be an issue but I've learned to take what they say regarding all things Officer/Pilot related with a grain of salt

[Hopefulflyer389]

Was at MEPS today and failed the depth perception test at line B (I did it wrong) and now at my optometrist getting an eye exam. What kind of uphill battle am I looking at now? A retest at MEPS? Will the optometrist visit subside for me to go back? Thank you.  

Edited May 1, 2018 by Hopefulflyer389

[GDAL]

Are you AD or guard/reserves? AD it could be a problem, if you're guard/reserves it doesn't much matter. You'll re-take it at FC1. If you fail it there, they will give you a battery of other tests to determine if you meet the standard. I fought this battle. PM if you would like any information.

[Hopefulflyer389]

Thanks. PM sent. 

[Stoker]

I failed it at MEPS as well, couldn't get past line B either. My Reserve recruiter had me drive to the nearest base for an appointment with the med group, where I did basically every eye test you'll end up doing at the FC1. Was able to pass depth perception there due to having more time with it, less stress, and an examiner who gave me some tips (wiggling your head and trusting your gut got me a long way through it). After passing there, I was back on track to my FC1.

Don't sweat it, I stressed too much about it but you'll get through eventually.

[Hopefulflyer389]

3 hours ago, Stoker said:

I failed it at MEPS as well, couldn't get past line B either. My Reserve recruiter had me drive to the nearest base for an appointment with the med group, where I did basically every eye test you'll end up doing at the FC1. Was able to pass depth perception there due to having more time with it, less stress, and an examiner who gave me some tips (wiggling your head and trusting your gut got me a long way through it). After passing there, I was back on track to my FC1.

Don't sweat it, I stressed too much about it but you'll get through eventually.

Did that change your MEPS physical showing your depth perception was good or does it even matter what MEPS says? 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Hopefulflyer389

[GDAL]

31 minutes ago, Hopefulflyer389 said:

Did that change your MEPS physical showing your depth perception was good or does it even matter what MEPS says? 

Nothing can change your MEPS physical. It is what it is. And it doesn't matter as long as you pass the FC1. 

Of course, it never looks good to have a failed depth perception test on your med record, but it won't keep you out of UPT.

[mightymighty]

I just went through Day 1 of my FC1 and failed DP Line A with the terrible circles. I couldnt believe it when she said it because I went through MEPs no problem - all the way through the chart. I went slow and took my time and I've never had issues with this. 

I've heard that there are additional tests they will do - but what do those other tests involve? Trying to get ahead of this for tomorrow. 

-mm

Edited October 28, 2019 by mightymighty
Added details

[Duck]

I just went through Day 1 of my FC1 and failed DP Line A with the terrible circles. I couldnt believe it when she said it because I went through MEPs no problem - all the way through the chart. I went slow and took my time and I've never had issues with this. 
I've heard that there are additional tests they will do - but what do those other tests involve? Trying to get ahead of this for tomorrow. 
-mm

Yeah I failed mine too 14 years ago or so. The tech said it was the highest failed item on the test. I don’t recall what the retest involved but I can tell you it was SUPER easy. I have never had depth perception issues. Once I found out it was always 2, 3 or 4 and never 1 or 5, it made life a lot easier and I never failed again.


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[mightymighty]

Thanks @Duck

Hoping for a better day tomorrow

[stuckindayton]

27 minutes ago, mightymighty said:

Thanks @Duck

Hoping for a better day tomorrow

Don't sweat it (yet).  There are still options.

[mightymighty]

Thanks @stuckindayton

I'm hoping it's just a fluke

Edited October 28, 2019 by mightymighty
details

[mightymighty]

So heres the deal: I didnt pass my FC1 today.

The docs in Dayton worked with me as much as they could. Gave me glasses. Kept me 3 extra days. Tried to get me a waiver. But I couldnt pass the damn tests.

I've been doing the magic eye tests and I can do them fine. My problem is stereopsis at a distance.

I've been at this now for four years and I'm definitely not going to stop - if anyone has some advice or tips other than what's been shared on this forum already it would be awesome.

Cheers,

-mm

Edited November 2, 2019 by mightymighty

[mightymighty]

Cleared hot!

I got a re-test and passed my FC1 yesterday without a waiver and without glasses.

I wouldnt have had the opportunity to do this again without the help and advice of folks on this forum, the docs at Wright Pat, and the flight docs at the 104th FW, 143rd AW, and 56th MDG.

My situation was a little strange, but if anyone has any questions or runs into this issue please DM me and reach out!

[stuckindayton]

11 hours ago, mightymighty said:

Cleared hot!

I got a re-test and passed my FC1 yesterday without a waiver and without glasses.

I wouldnt have had the opportunity to do this again without the help and advice of folks on this forum, the docs at Wright Pat, and the flight docs at the 104th FW, 143rd AW, and 56th MDG.

My situation was a little strange, but if anyone has any questions or runs into this issue please DM me and reach out!

Meh, who wants to fly F-15's anyway.

Obviously kidding.  Great job for taking the initiative and getting through this hurdle.  Best of luck moving forward.

[stuckindayton]

Happens all the time.  Not as often since the passing score for the "standard" test was lowered, but still very common.  If you passed with the circles projected on the wall, you will get a waiver.  Don't sweat it.

[Stoker]

When I failed depth perception at MEPS, I had to go get the full eye workup at a nearby base med group before going for my FC1. If I recall correctly, the FC1 and the eye test are technically different screenings... maybe you can get it arranged to go to a nearby base and do the eye work there?