Transfering airframes

[Champ Kind]

it makes you sound like a nav

L M A O.

I knew I was going to heart this thread.

[Vertigo]

Wow everyone needs to relax. If you think I don't know much about the C-130 world yet, youre right. I absolutely dont. What I do know is that its what I dropped, so its probably not necessary to call people idiots on baseops. If you have advice (Thanks Disco_Nav) I appreciate it. If you dont, move right along. I definitely know the truly basic officership stuff you guys keep harping about (have a good attitude? be happy with what I have? No shit!). What I was asking in my original question is whether or not there are any rules for/against transferring airframes. Please read the original post before losing your collective minds. Thanks to all those that gave good advice!

You know you done fucked up don't you?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Vertigo

[Disco_Nav963]

The latest info on AFSOC assignments from the MAF/AFSOC page on AFPC is:

"Mobility Operations - Combat System Officer (CSO) Special Operations Force

(SOF) Opportunities: Navigators with a C-130 background would be considered

for opportunities in the AC-130H/U; MC-130H/J/P/W; 6 SOS; and U-28. On a

case-by-case basis, KC-135 Navigators will be considered to fill positions

in the AC-130U as either a Nav or a Fire Control Officer (FCO), or in the

AC-130H as a FCO. KC-135 Navs will also be considered for cross-flow

opportunities in the U-28. U-28 positions will be restricted to applicants

who weigh less than 195 pounds and have a PT score of at least 'GOOD'.

Interested applicants should list these among their preferences on the

Airman Development Plan. KC-135 Navs should progress to instructor before

they will be considered for release to a SOF opportunity."

[Swizzle]

When Ramstein transitioned from C-130E to C-130J all of the Flight Engineers and Navigators hit the four winds PCS'ing. There were no positions at Ramstein for Navs anymore. Everyone scrambled for a good assignment.

None of over 20 Navs went fighter/bombers, several went to AFSOC (FCOs mostly), 7 were picked up for pilot training (3 are back in our squadron as C-130J pilots), and the remainder went to stateside slicks.

Morale of the story = even in a nav-a-palooza PCS in a single month no one, not even our best Nav transitioned to WSO or strike-Nav or whatever it's called now...

edit: ######1ng Nav!

Edited April 25, 2012 by Swizzle

[czecksikhs]

The latest info on AFSOC assignments from the MAF/AFSOC page on AFPC is:

"Mobility Operations - Combat System Officer (CSO) Special Operations Force

(SOF) Opportunities: Navigators with a C-130 background would be considered

for opportunities in the AC-130H/U; MC-130H/J/P/W; 6 SOS; and U-28. On a

case-by-case basis, KC-135 Navigators will be considered to fill positions

in the AC-130U as either a Nav or a Fire Control Officer (FCO), or in the

AC-130H as a FCO. KC-135 Navs will also be considered for cross-flow

opportunities in the U-28. U-28 positions will be restricted to applicants

who weigh less than 195 pounds and have a PT score of at least 'GOOD'.

Interested applicants should list these among their preferences on the

Airman Development Plan. KC-135 Navs should progress to instructor before

they will be considered for release to a SOF opportunity."

That is what the AFPC website has said for the past 4 years. The C-130 functional doesn't update anything on either AFPC's sharepoint/website or the AMS website.

[Disco_Nav963]

Ha... Makes the Bomber functionals look like champs for updating theirs in spring 2011.

[Guest]

Wow everyone needs to relax. If you think I don't know much about the C-130 world yet, youre right. I absolutely dont. What I do know is that its what I dropped, so its probably not necessary to call people idiots on baseops. If you have advice (Thanks Disco_Nav) I appreciate it. If you dont, move right along. I definitely know the truly basic officership stuff you guys keep harping about (have a good attitude? be happy with what I have? No shit!). What I was asking in my original question is whether or not there are any rules for/against transferring airframes. Please read the original post before losing your collective minds. Thanks to all those that gave good advice!

OK, you asked for advice. I have some really good advice for you, please take it in the spirit it is intended. It is not intended to be sexist or single you out because you are a woman...

The way you reacted is exactly what makes women look weak. All your fellow women pilots and navs cringe when they see you do something like this.

Do yourself and the rest of the female USAF aircrew a favor and toughen up a little.

[Danger41]

IMHO, the writing is on the wall as far as AFSOC goes.

They have effectively shut the door to U-28s to anyone outside of AFSOC, UPT only or from another AFSOC airframe. I'm not sure if the same construct applies to the 130 world in AFSOC but there definitely seems to be a shift from embracing other communities to raising our own. 6th SOS is the only exception I can think of.

There are more than a few examples of the few who have made the switch only to find out that they better be faster, better and stronger than the guy who has been here his whole career. I'm not trying to dissuade just saying that if career is important to you then the faster you get to AFSOC the better.

FWIW, I did not come up in AFSOC directly out of UPT. I was not TAMI'd, but was one of those special cases that they allowed to cross over when I showed interest.

The only reason I bring this up to you is that anything is possible, but realize that the AF doesn't give two shits about your hopes and dreams. They care about filling allotted spots and if you happen to be in the right place in the right time, then you make it happen. Hopefully you can find happiness in whatever your assignment may be, or you will have one shitty time in the AF.

[guineapigfury]

The only reason I bring this up to you is that anything is possible, but realize that the AF doesn't give two shits about your hopes and dreams. They care about filling allotted spots and if you happen to be in the right wrong place in the right wrong time, then you make it happen will get sent to UAVs.

FIFY.

[Darth]

... but was one of those special cases that they allowed to cross over when I showed interest.

"So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*"

[nsplayr]

No rules against Navs going to UAVs, they're always hiring.

This is actually not true. The pipeline for nav -> UAVs is closed. You have to put in a package for UPT, mark the container that you want to volunteer for UAVs, get selected, go through a years worth of training at Randolph et. al. and get re-cat'd to 18X. No more 12Xers as UAV "pilots." Just FYI.

They have effectively shut the door to U-28s to anyone outside of AFSOC, UPT only or from another AFSOC airframe.

You talking pilot here or all crew positions? See below...

OTOH CSO manning is atrocious so it is favorable for back seaters to get on board...but once we are healthy it probably will follow suit with the pilot side as well.

Since the OP is a nav I think this is more applicable...as far as I've heard we're still accepting takers from all communities for U-28 back seat and I hope it continues until we can get to something resembling healthy.

[theSituation]

Any idea as to what it looks like for ewo types to transfer into afsoc?

[Butters]

Any idea as to what it looks like for ewo types to transfer into afsoc?

It looks like this:

[zrooster99]

IMHO, the writing is on the wall as far as AFSOC goes.

They have effectively shut the door to U-28s to anyone outside of AFSOC, UPT only or from another AFSOC airframe. I'm not sure if the same construct applies to the 130 world in AFSOC but there definitely seems to be a shift from embracing other communities to raising our own. 6th SOS is the only exception I can think of.

There are more than a few examples of the few who have made the switch only to find out that they better be faster, better and stronger than the guy who has been here his whole career. I'm not trying to dissuade just saying that if career is important to you then the faster you get to AFSOC the better.

No shit. Just had that convo regarding career a few days ago...

Edited June 5, 2012 by zrooster99

[Rocker]

Hey guys! I am going to be starting UNT at Little Rock sometime this year for slicks. I could not be happier and I am super-stoked about the prospect of low levels with NVGs or dropping stone cold killers into dark fields. However, I do not want to stay C-130s throughout my entire career and would like to see other USAF airframes. I loved the WSO portions of my training and Id like to be in the back of an F-15E or a B-1 one day. I definitely don't want to cross-train to UPT. Any thoughts on what rules and requirements there are for someone trying to switch their airframes say 2.5-3 years in?

Crossflow is not an impossibility, timing is everything, be the best at the job you've been given for now, and nobody likes a complainer. Disco_Nav963's advice is solid. An AFSOC -130 would be the most fluid transition, but as unlikely or uncommon as a crossflow to a Strike Eagle or Bone might be for one of you people, it would not be impossible with the appropriate level of leadership representation, MDS Functional buy-in, and an open billet. This is where timing and you being the best at your job come into play. And if it just never works out for some reason - well, that's the way the cookie crumbles and hopefully you ended up being the shit hot navigator who other people look forward to flying with. I can tell you for sure that we get prior slick and other Navs into the AC-130 Nav and FCO pipelines several times a year. While the H-model Gunship will likely be gone by the time you're eligible to move, the U-model and possibly the W should be hiring for the foreseeable future.

[Bucknut21]

Kind of off topic but has anyone heard of T6 FAIPs with a T38 background going over to helos?

[czecksikhs]

Kind of off topic but has anyone heard of T6 FAIPs with a T38 background going over to helos?

No.

[busdriver]

With RWQC going the way of the dodo, your chance is slim. But call the AFPC functional and ask. The worst he can say is no.

[Kilgore Trout]

With RWQC going the way of the dodo, your chance is slim. But call the AFPC functional and ask. The worst he can say is no.

That's the most dastardly part of being a FAIP, no functional or belonging to anyone. Just a number on old Scheely's desk at Randolph.

[stract]

he was referring to the helo functional...outside of coming from another RW platform, the only way I've seen FW bubbas come over to the dark side is by getting hired by one of the Guard/Reserve units that flies 60s.

[HeloDude]

he was referring to the helo functional...outside of coming from another RW platform, the only way I've seen FW bubbas come over to the dark side is by getting hired by one of the Guard/Reserve units that flies 60s.

True....but, if it was ever going to happen on the active duty side these days, I think this is the best opportunity if there ever was one. RWQC is only 3 months long...probably close to the same amount of time as IFF. FAIP's have to go somewhere and they're not 'owned' by any community.

[stract]

RWQC doesn't exist for the AF anymore (reference dodo in busdriver's post). Pretty sure everyone does the full 6 months at Rucker now, regardless of background.

[sleeve]

I'm a 38 guy that got a C17 out of pilot training. Just finished the schoolhouse here at Altus and the IPs were telling my training partner and I how bad things are currently in the 17 community for guys coming up on their next assignments...apparently almost nobody has been getting an ops-to-ops tour; rather, they are getting sent to RPAs, MC12s, ALOs, etc. The best assignment honestly that some have received is a T6 to UPT...

Some of the IPs I talked to seemed to think that since I was a 38 guy that ACC still "has a hold on me" and that I may only get one tour in the 17 as well before getting farmed back to ACC to either be RPA/MC12 (like everyone else recently) or to "other" ACC assets (fighters/bombers/recon?), or go back to UPT as a 38 instructor.

Anyone out there heard anything along these lines? I really am happy with my assignment to 17s and obviously I'd prefer to stay in the 17 vice going to RPAs or MC12s, but if they offered me the chance to go to a fighter or bomber on my next assignment I'd consider it.

Any 17 guys out there crossflowed to other aircraft, or done special programs like the U2?

Hopefully things won't look so bleak for 17 guys coming up on assignment in the next few years...

Edited August 9, 2012 by sleeve

[Danny Noonin]

Some of the IPs I talked to seemed to think that since I was a 38 guy that ACC still "has a hold on me" and that I may only get one tour in the 17 as well before getting farmed back to ACC to either be RPA/MC12 (like everyone else recently) or to "other" ACC assets (fighters/bombers/recon?), or go back to UPT as a 38 instructor...but if they offered me the chance to go to a fighter or bomber on my next assignment I'd consider it.

Sorry but those IPs are talking out of their asses. There is absolutely zero chance you just get a crossflow fighter through the normal assignment process. I also don't see how you would be considered an ACC asset simply for having flown 38s in UPT.

[Guest]

Do people really call it "the 17"?

As far as ACC goes, they don't track T-38 students. They don't know you exist. In fact, you don't exist.