Drone Pilots: We Don’t Get No Respect

[Sim]

1626 EKIA? I'm calling shenanigans.

Standard air force OPR/EPR tactic. Support an op and claim results as your own....and it doesn't matter where you were in that kill-chain...a shoe or a trigger squeezer.

[ATIS]

From the article: "It showed that he had participated in missions that contributed to the deaths of 1,626 people."

"Contributed" is a key word IMO. I "contributed" to ending the Cold War, and the effort in OIE/OEF (and from the looks of it about to re-contribute again)...doesn't mean I put a spot down on somebody/something and drove-in a kinetic action or won the war single handed. Go forward and witness shit that happens to our folks and bystanders, opens your eyes to reality a lot more than an EO/IR picture. Welcome to the Fog of War shipmate, nobody likes it and it comes back to visit us in our dreams and life...but we don't talk to the press about it for publicity.

Edited June 6, 2013 by ATIS

[Sim]

...but we don't talk to the press about it for publicity.

None-disclosure agreement. We don't talk about it to anyone.

[tac airlifter]

From the article: "It showed that he had participated in missions that contributed to the deaths of 1,626 people."

"Contributed" is a key word IMO. I "contributed" to ending the Cold War, and the effort in OIE/OEF (and from the looks of it about to re-contribute again)...doesn't mean I put a spot down on somebody/something and drove-in a kinetic action or won the war single handed.

All number fucking aside, I call shenanigins on him even being on-sta for that number of EKIA. Maybe that was the entirety of all ops the SQ supported the entire time he was assinged there? Who would even track that number? Claiming kills not your own is shameful; but then, so is talking to the media.

[Rmarsh]

“Like, this isn’t a videogame,” he said. “This isn’t some sort of fantasy. This is war. People die.”

Uhh...what?

I guess the recruiter forgot to mention that militaries go to war, and in those wars people tend to die every now and again.

What did he think was going to happen? we were going to politely ask the terrorists pretty-please, if its not too much trouble, could you stop bombing us?

[Herk Driver]

The cynical side of me says that he is milking this for the PTSD diagnosis and a VA disability rating...

[Tonka]

Finally some well deserved Drone "ART":

https://gizmodo.com/p...these-574439696

[10percenttruth]

Finally some well deserved Drone "ART":

https://gizmodo.com/p...these-574439696

That last one looks like something Jennifer Connely had a close encounter with in Requiem for a Dream.

[Earle P]

Finally some well deserved Drone "ART":

https://gizmodo.com/p...these-574439696

Iran released photos of their drones new paint jobs eh?

[Jughead]

That last one looks like something Jennifer Connely had a close encounter with in Requiem for a Dream.

In related news, Jughead has a new title at the top of his "must-see" movie list...!!

[10percenttruth]

In related news, Jughead has a new title at the top of his "must-see" movie list...!!

Full disclosure: if you try to fap to it, you'll likely be scarred for life.

However, this movie should be at the top of everyone's list of flicks to show their kids why drugs are bad, m'kay?

Honorable mentions to "Trainspotting" and "Blow"

[nsplayr]

I've been on the same shift for a month and you learn the patterns. Like, I'll know at 5 a.m. this guy is gonna go outside and take a shit. I've seen a lot of dudes take shits.

Truth.

[pawnman]

From the article: "It showed that he had participated in missions that contributed to the deaths of 1,626 people."

"Contributed" is a key word IMO. I "contributed" to ending the Cold War, and the effort in OIE/OEF (and from the looks of it about to re-contribute again)...doesn't mean I put a spot down on somebody/something and drove-in a kinetic action or won the war single handed. Go forward and witness shit that happens to our folks and bystanders, opens your eyes to reality a lot more than an EO/IR picture. Welcome to the Fog of War shipmate, nobody likes it and it comes back to visit us in our dreams and life...but we don't talk to the press about it for publicity.

Kind of like when the Finance or MPF troops would call the MPC and ask how many lines/hours/bombs/EKIA we had in a given period "for their awards".

I usually just hung up on them.

[Dupe]

Someone explain why we have officers doing this at all? Sure, there's the weapons engagement aspect... but I don't see why an officer shift-supervisor can't roll-in when it's time to go kinetic. If the CAOC is watching and has approved anyway, what's the point of someone on the O payscale pressing the button?

[jazzdude]

Someone explain why we have officers doing this at all? Sure, there's the weapons engagement aspect... but I don't see why an officer shift-supervisor can't roll-in when it's time to go kinetic. If the CAOC is watching and has approved anyway, what's the point of someone on the O payscale pressing the button?

Just to add fuel to the fire...We probably can draw parallels with an Army artillery platoon: one OIC to over see the platoon, with the "trigger-pullers" being enlisted artillerymen. The OIC doesn't aim each gun and pull the trigger, but directs an effect executed by his platoon.

[Karl Hungus]

Someone explain why we have officers doing this at all? Sure, there's the weapons engagement aspect... but I don't see why an officer shift-supervisor can't roll-in when it's time to go kinetic. If the CAOC is watching and has approved anyway, what's the point of someone on the O payscale pressing the button?

Why are the bases in shitholes like Cannon? Why aren't they based at Homestead, Patrick, MacDill, Hanscom, Los Angeles, and Hickam... where people might actually want to live?

[guineapigfury]

Someone explain why we have officers doing this at all? Sure, there's the weapons engagement aspect... but I don't see why an officer shift-supervisor can't roll-in when it's time to go kinetic. If the CAOC is watching and has approved anyway, what's the point of someone on the O payscale pressing the button?

You'd have grievous morale issues because the O would be "stealing their shot". Also, I call the CAOC frequently, and I've yet to be impressed.

[tac airlifter]

You'd have grievous morale issues because......

Yes, and "grievous morale issues" has always been a top concern among Air Force leadership.

[guineapigfury]

Yes, and "grievous morale issues" has always been a top concern among Air Force leadership.

Touche.

[pawnman]

You'd have grievous morale issues because the O would be "stealing their shot". Also, I call the CAOC frequently, and I've yet to be impressed.

As opposed to the greivous morale issues of being stationed at Creech or Cannon?

[Dupe]

You'd have grievous morale issues because the O would be "stealing their shot". Also, I call the CAOC frequently, and I've yet to be impressed.

I personally think the whole thing can be done by enlisted folks, but the Air Force has this paradigm of "Officers do the killing because airpower is strategic and overarching." For RPAs, I think a paradigm shift is in order.

[discus]

I personally think the whole thing can be done by enlisted folks, but the Air Force has this paradigm of "Officers do the killing because airpower is strategic and overarching." For RPAs, I think a paradigm shift is in order.

Any other service sends their Enlisted dudes in to the war first. In the Air Force, we send our Officers in while the enlisted dudes sit at home in the air conditioning.

(Broad, generalized statement with exceptions, I know, but overall true)

[ruckerstud]

If we are going to pull officers out of the kill chain when we are employing weapons, or just have them supervise a la GCI, then why are we paying officers to fly our airlift and tanker assets? In WWII we had enlisted pilots, and the Army who flies more aircraft than either the Air Force or the Navy (yes they are helos, but you still have to train their pilots) takes 18 year olds out of high school and trains them to be manned pilots. We should be able to run an enlisted man through UPT and have him fly a C-17 or C-130 or KC-10 with minimal issues. And before the good idea fairy steps out, having Warrants in the AF is a truly horrible idea because you then take all the tactical experience that everyone on this board seems to think is what will make some the next Billy Mitchell and cap them as a DO and you have guys who are gunning to be Generals both on staff and in every echelon of leadership about SQ/CC.

[Chaff]

For those discussing enlisted dudes flying RPAs. Is there a reason you believe manned aircraft should be piloted by officers or could they be piloted by enlisted as well? Just wondering what everyones thoughts are and how they draw their lines.

[Gravedigger]

I think this will follow the progression space ops followed. 20 years ago, satellites could only be operated by officers. The next step was allowing enlisted folks to build contacts and run ground systems, but not send commands to satellites. Next enlisted were allowed to send commands with an officer verifying, but they couldn't be vehicle experts or engineers. Now they can send commands, become vehicle experts and engineers, and they are breaking into other mission areas. They are still trying to figure out what to do about having a senior Captain sitting next to an A1C doing exactly the same job, but the point is it's happening right now, and you really can't tell a difference between the two. Young enlisted Airmen in OSS and OGV teach and evaluate Captains on a daily basis. It's pretty common to have a SrA teaching an IQT class full of Captains.

For many career fields, officer vs enlisted matters only in the paycheck. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out and whether RPAs will follow the space model. With the budget the way it is, why wouldn't the Air Force want to pay half the price for the same result?