Razor666 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I'm just going to tell my students that if it happens to them, just press forward and hope they get some type of cockpit in the future. Grant it, it may not be what they wanted to fly but at least its something that can get their hours up and they can leave the AF after their commitment and fly for the airlines hopefully with the hours they racked up. At least for the most part I keep hearing that dudes eventually got back into a cockpit and were not sentenced for a lifetime/career in the RPA. Keep the good attitude up, grow were you are planted and realize that service before self is a nice way to keep dudes in party lines.
Herkasaurus Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I have a good friend who got RPAs, C-130s, then just got RPAs again. He 7 day opted... Strong move on on his part, I wonder how many people are 7 day opting on the 3rd assignment? I know a 130 guy (not J models) currently on his 4th flying assignment, IP, 3K-4Khrs, who just got a UAV...sure he should be at staff/whatever the bull shit career pyramid says, but he's royally fücked. He took the bonus, and now can't apply to the airlines when his time is done unless he magically gets back to a Herk afterwards. Will they make an O-4 an ADO in a UAV squadron with no UAV experience? What the hell do they do with a guy like that?
Bode Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 There was a T38 guy back in late 2010 at END that attempted to SIE after he dropped RPAs. Anyone familiar with that story? The rumors I heard included paying back UPT cost as well as Academy costs and add in a civilian status. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
guineapigfury Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Strong move on on his part, I wonder how many people are 7 day opting on the 3rd assignment? I know a 130 guy (not J models) currently on his 4th flying assignment, IP, 3K-4Khrs, who just got a UAV...sure he should be at staff/whatever the bull shit career pyramid says, but he's royally fücked. He took the bonus, and now can't apply to the airlines when his time is done unless he magically gets back to a Herk afterwards. Will they make an O-4 an ADO in a UAV squadron with no UAV experience? What the hell do they do with a guy like that? They will make an O-4 an ADO in a UAV squadron with no UAV experience. Shit, they'll make you a SQ/CC without any RPA experience. Manning is appalling and is slanted very heavily towards Lt's and junior Capts. Normally the DO in an RPA squadron is a Major. There just aren't enough RPA O-5s to go around. From what I can see, almost noone stays long enough to make Lt Col. I've seen a DO with a line number for Lt Col 7 day opt after an incredibly successful term as DO. When those who are stuck in this shit say it's a bad scene, this is what we're talking about. I've had 4 CCs so far in RPAs and 2 were unsafe in the jet. That's how bad experience levels are. What will they do with that O-4? Probably let him get through one rotation with his shift (days-swings-mids, about 4-5 months) then put him in the queue for IPUG and MCC (rough equivalent to Ops Sup or Top 3) upgrade. We need more ADOs than a manned squadron since we're spread out across the shifts and our younger guys often have no idea how to accomplish basic Air Force shit outside of the squadron since they have never interacted with the rest of the base excluding the flight doc and gate guards.
scoobs Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 There was a T38 guy back in late 2010 at END that attempted to SIE after he dropped RPAs. Anyone familiar with that story? The rumors I heard included paying back UPT cost as well as Academy costs and add in a civilian status. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Do you sign a contract when you go to the academy?
Razor666 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Do you sign a contract when you go to the academy? I signed something that said I'll serve ten years as a rated officer. Not sure if the fine print said something like once you earn your wings or as of right now etc. Definitely signed something though.
guineapigfury Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 I signed something that said I'll serve ten years as a rated officer. Not sure if the fine print said something like once you earn your wings or as of right now etc. Definitely signed something though. Slightly off topic, but you might be able to find it in PRDA.
Chaff Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Will they make an O-4 an ADO in a UAV squadron with no UAV experience? What the hell do they do with a guy like that? In my squadron the only pilots who don't fly shift work are the Patch, DO, CC, and DS. Shop ADOs still fly 6-8 hours a day on shift. Most of the good O-4s that show up get put in charge of a shift fairly quickly. They are like mini DOs in charge of two flights and still fly that 6-8 hours a day.
Fuzz Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 There have been a couple UPT to RPA guys show up at TCM, none have anything good to say about their experience.
Magellan Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 There have been a couple UPT to RPA guys show up at TCM, none have anything good to say about their experience. That is because the ones with good things to say (not that there are that many good things to say) have stayed in RPAs and fall into one of the following categories: FTU Instructor Flying the RQ-170 WIC Grad or currently a WUG TPS Grad or in the hunt to become one Plus there are some guys out there that have had the novelty of being back in manned aircraft wear off for one reason or another that are looking to head back to RPAs voluntarily in the very near future. 1
Ram Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Plus there are some guys out there that have had the novelty of being back in manned aircraft wear off for one reason or another that are looking to head back to RPAs voluntarily in the very near future. You call it a novelty, I call it the coolest goddamn fucking thing I have ever had the incredible luck to do. 7
hispeed7721 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Plus there are some guys out there that have had the novelty of being back in manned aircraft wear off for one reason or another that are looking to head back to RPAs voluntarily in the very near future. I'm not saying this is impossible...but it's at the very least implausible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lawman Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) I'm not saying this is impossible...but it's at the very least implausible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You laugh... We have about 400 former 58 pilots in the Army non selected for aircraft transitions. They are clinging to the dream they will get to go over to UAS and try and finish their 20 instead of getting the big green GFY for all their years of pulling the cart. Both my Squadrons new UAS warrants are former 58 pilots. Those guys are the lucky ones. Edited July 26, 2015 by Lawman 1
sqwatch Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Plus there are some guys out there that have had the novelty of being back in manned aircraft wear off for one reason or another that are looking to head back to RPAs voluntarily in the very near future. Novelty has not worn off for me yet. In fact, the prospect of potentially being sent back to droids is keeping me from signing a quarter of a million dollar bonus. 1
Majestik Møøse Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 You laugh... We have about 400 former 58 pilots in the Army non selected for aircraft transitions. They are clinging to the dream they will get to go over to UAS and try and finish their 20 instead of getting the big green GFY for all their years of pulling the cart. Both my Squadrons new UAS warrants are former 58 pilots. Those guys are the lucky ones. So the Army has 400 combat CAS-experienced pilots who are clamoring for RPAs; while the Air Force is torturing their current RPA pilots and can't seem to figure out where to find new ones. Sounds about right.
Breckey Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Is there an age limit for the 18Xers like there is for UPT?
Lawman Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 So the Army has 400 combat CAS-experienced pilots who are clamoring for RPAs; while the Air Force is torturing their current RPA pilots and can't seem to figure out where to find new ones. Sounds about right. Yes, but in order for the right hand to take advantage of what the left hand is holding the AF would have to bring back *gasp* Warrant Officers, and accept the fact that most of them don't have Bachelors degrees.
Clark Griswold Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Yes, but in order for the right hand to take advantage of what the left hand is holding the AF would have to bring back *gasp* Warrant Officers, and accept the fact that most of them don't have Bachelors degrees. Are you saying that my college degree and the general education classes I had to take like learning how to use the library didn't give me the requisite knowledge to become an Air Force officer and pilot? Scott Walker - no college degree and the very successful Governor of Wisconsin Bill Gates - no college degree and a somewhat successful businessman Peter Thiel - no college degree and founded Pay Pal Those are just some of the cautionary tales that prove you have to have a college degree. Edited July 26, 2015 by Clark Griswold
Lawman Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Are you saying that my college degree and the general education classes I had to take like learning how to use the library didn't give me the requisite knowledge to become an Air Force officer and pilot? Scott Walker - no college degree and the very successful Governor of Wisconsin Bill Gates - no college degree and a somewhat successful businessman Peter Thiel - no college degree and founded Pay Pal Those are just some of the cautionary tales that prove you have to have a college degree. Hey I don't know why having an Online masters in Business Administration makes you a better tactical officer, but then again I don't see the, "big picture.".... I'm still trying to figure out why the AF thinks enlisted guys couldn't fly drones with supervision. Probably the same idiot that got rid of specialist ranks because "everybody is a leader" even if their are terrible at leadership but good at a tech trade.
Clark Griswold Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Hey I don't know why having an Online masters in Business Administration makes you a better tactical officer, but then again I don't see the, "big picture.".... I'm still trying to figure out why the AF thinks enlisted guys couldn't fly drones with supervision. Probably the same idiot that got rid of specialist ranks because "everybody is a leader" even if their are terrible at leadership but good at a tech trade. Don't use logic or reason then you will understand Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Azimuth Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Because the Air Force will always have a complex towards Enlisted employing weapons that aren't mini-guns.
Homestar Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 You want enlisted flying drones? Fine. But you better get a stronger union, cause it won't take long for that enlisted man to figure out he's getting paid piss poor wages by the AF to do it. Then after his relatively short commitment is up, that enlisted man will bolt (probably with his ATP in hand, or at least a thousand hours of drone time) and join a real company that pays real wages for his technical work. Retention problem solved! Oh, wait... 1
Lawman Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) You want enlisted flying drones? Fine. But you better get a stronger union, cause it won't take long for that enlisted man to figure out he's getting paid piss poor wages by the AF to do it. Then after his relatively short commitment is up, that enlisted man will bolt (probably with his ATP in hand, or at least a thousand hours of drone time) and join a real company that pays real wages for his technical work. Retention problem solved! Oh, wait...Really dude? Welcome to the world outside the AF. We have close to 2200 pilots being paid 2/3 what their commission brethren make while flying more, doing menial duties like washing trucks, and receiving no aviation incentive bonus beyond flight pay. I present to you the aviation warrant officer corps. Yet we never have a problem filling slots. Hell we are firing 400 people in the next two years. 4 year adso for enlisted guys out of high school some 10 thousand dollar or such signing bonus and a what maybe 4 month tech school all while paying them enlisted pay/benefits, or a bunch of studs who take over a year or two to train not counting no flight stuff and cost over a million pulled out of UPT to go to drones when there is a fighter pilot shortage and draw major pay and bene's by the time they are allowed to leave.... Which one is costing more in the long run and from recruits from a more shallow pool? You guys act like your manning problem is predicated on one answer, "how do you keep captains and majors who have been given the blue dick and convince them into staying a little longer?" What you don't realize is there are thousands of guys who aren't trying to be fighter jocks that would love to do something besides just wrench on your birds or make up another tracker at personnel. The Army figured that out decades ago. It doesn't take college degrees or 4 years of eating with only one hand at the zoo to make somebody that can drive a drone from launch point Y to Orbit Z and steer a flir pod. Edited July 27, 2015 by Lawman 2
Homestar Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Jeez. I must be stupid because I never make this point very well. But then, I really didn't follow much of what you just wrote, Lawman. You want enlisted to fly planes/drones? Fine. I agree that a college degree is not really all that necessary to do the job. But pay them the wage that flying planes/drones demand. Don't let the AF get away with paying some guy $45,000/yr to do what the rest of the world pays $120,000/yr to do. A proper union would never allow equal work for less pay. Hell, why do we need officers anyway?
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now